Trump and China call cease fire on tariffs

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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
lol if that were true Id be posting all kinds of stories from Breitbart or Fox. And you know its not, because I dont do that.

As you said in the OP, it's a step in the right direction. As it turns out, however, American farmers need Chinese soybean customers worse than the Chinese need American soybeans & that hurts the GOP. It hurts the overall economy in some of their strongholds, too.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/27/18114566/trump-trade-war-china-farm-bankruptcy

As the article mentions, other countries have retaliated with tariffs against a range of Ag products.

It's as if Trump had no fucking idea of what he was doing.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,460
1,570
96
As you said in the OP, it's a step in the right direction. As it turns out, however, American farmers need Chinese soybean customers worse than the Chinese need American soybeans & that hurts the GOP. It hurts the overall economy in some of their strongholds, too.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/27/18114566/trump-trade-war-china-farm-bankruptcy

As the article mentions, other countries have retaliated with tariffs against a range of Ag products.

It's as if Trump had no fucking idea of what he was doing.
I thought the US was one of the Worlds biggest producers of Soybeans. Just under China.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I thought the US was one of the Worlds biggest producers of Soybeans. Just under China.

It's not like that at all. We are the world's leading producer & China the world's leading consumer.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/263926/soybean-production-in-selected-countries-since-1980/

https://www.motherearthnews.com/hom...china-rising-soybean-consumption-zw0z1302zmcc

It creates a huge market distortion where shipping Argentine soybeans to China & shipping price depressed American soybeans to Argentina is a profitable way to go-

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/30/reu...argentina-loads-up-on-cheap-u-s-soybeans.html
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
It's a can kick and Trump never confronts anybody personally. Bet he's right back on imposing more tariffs after 90 days if not sooner.
China is hurting more than the media is portraying. I do think that before the 90 days is up that China will be making some changes.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
No, he wants other nations to drop trade barriers for US goods while engaging in protectionism. In other words: something for nothing.
No dipshit, other countries have had protectionist tariffs on US products forever yet you never saw us fighting back or returning the favors.

Plus China ripping off via intellectual property.

Look, I don't care for Trump but he seems to be the first that at least acknowledged there is a problem. I'm not saying he is acting correctly to fix the problems, but that doesn't mean it wasnt a problem.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Not too surprised that someone fighting for a better deal for America is made fun of on AT P&N. This is good news, it gives both sides time to hammer out a better trade deal without continued escalations. Those that think Trump is in the wrong here are those that have never known what it's like to properly argue and negotiate from a position of strength. America will be better after Trump is done getting in his trade deals, and he'll have done it all well before his first term has ended. He's exactly what America needed at the time we needed him, we really dodged a bullet with America rejecting Hillary.
 
Reactions: Bitek

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,850
136
No dipshit, other countries have had protectionist tariffs on US products forever yet you never saw us fighting back or returning the favors.

Plus China ripping off via intellectual property.

Look, I don't care for Trump but he seems to be the first that at least acknowledged there is a problem. I'm not saying he is acting correctly to fix the problems, but that doesn't mean it wasnt a problem.

This is stupid. The US has, or had rather, relatively low tariffs (they do exist however) but engages in a range of other protectionist measures from subsidies to strict domestic procurement rules. To say we were not and are not protectionist would be a lie.

I dunno maybe if you want to make China stop ripping off IP engaging in some kind of oh I don't know "Partnership" with other nations to do that among other helpful things might be a swell idea. Also he really doesn't even comprehend this part of the issue since he's just obsessed with trying to rebalance trade to neutral, an insane and incredibly stupid thing to try.

I never contended that there aren't issues with trade but calling Trump in to fix them is like hiring your car mechanic to give you a triple bypass.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,850
136
It creates a huge market distortion where shipping Argentine soybeans to China & shipping price depressed American soybeans to Argentina is a profitable way to go-

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/30/reu...argentina-loads-up-on-cheap-u-s-soybeans.html

This is what I was thinking about months ago when farmers said they were confident in Trump and that, by necessity, China would be back to them because of limited global supply.

I guess not so much if other countries sell China their entire supply at a premium then buys US soy at a big discount for their own needs.
 

Ottonomous

Senior member
May 15, 2014
559
292
136
Why doesn't america just abolish minimum wage and repatriate most of its manufacturing, why are unpatriotic americans refusing to help the economy
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,658
5,228
136
No dipshit, other countries have had protectionist tariffs on US products forever yet you never saw us fighting back or returning the favors.

Plus China ripping off via intellectual property.

Look, I don't care for Trump but he seems to be the first that at least acknowledged there is a problem. I'm not saying he is acting correctly to fix the problems, but that doesn't mean it wasnt a problem.

Was any of that resolved with this activity?

Trump's primary focus has been on his misunderstanding of trade deficits.

Everyone knows there is a problem with China. The issue is the answers are not easy. Dumb trade wars are not easy answers.

It looks like all we've done is to agree to stop punching each other in the sack for a little while. Trump shouldn't expect a lot of praise for losing a game he started and by all measures is going poorly and with no likely path to the resolution that was promised.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Possible lower tariffs on auto imports.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-china-agreed-cut-tariffs-u-made-043500797--sector.html

"WASHINGTON/SHANGHAI (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump said China had agreed to cut import tariffs on American-made cars, buoying shares in BMW and Daimler AG who manufacture in the United States for export to the world's biggest auto market.

Shares of Chinese car dealers also perked up on hopes that such a move could revitalize the domestic auto market that is poised for its first annual sales contraction in decades amid cooling economic growth and a debilitating U.S.-China trade war.

Trump, fresh from agreeing a 90-day cease-fire in his trade war with China at the meeting of the G20, said on Twitter "China has agreed to reduce and remove tariffs on cars coming into China from the U.S. Currently the tariff is 40%"."
 
Reactions: SlowSpyder

MooseNSquirrel

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2009
2,587
318
126
...And that's why demagogues shouldn't be in charge of policy, and why people with zero political or management experience should never be put in charge of anything bigger than a small hamlet in Texas.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
...And that's why demagogues shouldn't be in charge of policy, and why people with zero political or management experience should never be put in charge of anything bigger than a small hamlet in Texas.

You do understand that this is good news, yes? That we're going to get a better trade deal out of this, right?
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
He's tweeted a lot this morning, good stuff: If the trade war could wind down and we get what we want, then Trump has done more than enough already to vote for him in 2020.

  1. [B]Donald J. Trump[/B]‏Verified account @[B]realDonaldTrump[/B] 2h2 hours ago
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    We would save Billions of Dollars if the Democrats would give us the votes to build the Wall. Either way, people will NOT be allowed into our Country illegally! We will close the entire Southern Border if necessary. Also, STOP THE DRUGS!
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    I am certain that, at some time in the future, President Xi and I, together with President Putin of Russia, will start talking about a meaningful halt to what has become a major and uncontrollable Arms Race. The U.S. spent 716 Billion Dollars this year. Crazy!
    6,379 replies9,110 retweets37,388 likes
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  3. [IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/874276197357596672/kUuht00m_bigger.jpg[/IMG][B]Donald J. Trump[/B]‏Verified account @[B]realDonaldTrump[/B] 2h2 hours ago
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    President Xi and I have a very strong and personal relationship. He and I are the only two people that can bring about massive and very positive change, on trade and far beyond, between our two great Nations. A solution for North Korea is a great thing for China and ALL!
    3,815 replies6,786 retweets28,754 likes
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    Farmers will be a a very BIG and FAST beneficiary of our deal with China. They intend to start purchasing agricultural product immediately. We make the finest and cleanest product in the World, and that is what China wants. Farmers, I LOVE YOU!
    6,884 replies11,838 retweets49,513 likes
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    My meeting in Argentina with President Xi of China was an extraordinary one. Relations with China have taken a BIG leap forward! Very good things will happen. We are dealing from great strength, but China likewise has much to gain if and when a deal is completed. Level the field!
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  6. [IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/874276197357596672/kUuht00m_bigger.jpg[/IMG][B]Donald J. Trump[/B]‏Verified account @[B]realDonaldTrump[/B] 12h12 hours ago
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    China has agreed to reduce and remove tariffs on cars coming into China from the U.S. Currently the tariff is 40%.
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
He's tweeted a lot this morning, good stuff: If the trade war could wind down and we get what we want, then Trump has done more than enough already to vote for him in 2020.

How did I know you'd believe the Liar in Chief?
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,685
7,186
136
They were busy showing some Clinton scandals special this weekend. Simply amazing.

Anything to divert away from the hot mess Trump is in. If it weren't for the Clintons FOX would be forced to report on how Comey and Cohen stabbed Trump in the back, front, sides, in the head and up the ass every hour and every day of the week.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,658
5,228
136
Possible lower tariffs on auto imports.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-china-agreed-cut-tariffs-u-made-043500797--sector.html

"WASHINGTON/SHANGHAI (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump said China had agreed to cut import tariffs on American-made cars, buoying shares in BMW and Daimler AG who manufacture in the United States for export to the world's biggest auto market.

Shares of Chinese car dealers also perked up on hopes that such a move could revitalize the domestic auto market that is poised for its first annual sales contraction in decades amid cooling economic growth and a debilitating U.S.-China trade war.

Trump, fresh from agreeing a 90-day cease-fire in his trade war with China at the meeting of the G20, said on Twitter "China has agreed to reduce and remove tariffs on cars coming into China from the U.S. Currently the tariff is 40%"."

Regarding auto tariffs.

Put aside the lack of detail and confirmation from the Chinese... Let's assume they will severely reduce auto import tariffs.


Whats the summer of the potential impacts of this?

Firstly, WTO rules will require that they apply to all trading nations. That means Japan, Korea, Europe, & India will also have greater access to the Chinese market. A good thing.

Does that mean US auto exports will skyrocket? Well, what do we have that will sell there?

As the Ford and GM strategic announcements have demonstrated, the US domestic market is moving away from cars heavily and moving into trucks and SUVs. The factories we use to make cars are shuttering. Do we think the Chinese auto market as a big unmet need for large trucks? Or are they going to want smaller low-cost vehicles that may be better served by other manufacturers? Remember they can buy from Korea, Japan or anywhere else no guarantees it's from the US.

Secondly, in terms of auto manufacturing, when there are large volume sold the manufacturer will try to place a factory in the market in which they are sold. This is why GM has a car plans ready in China. What is not efficient, not a Lean manufacturing technique, is to assemble cars here and then ship them to the other side of the planet. So what volumes we are likely to be able to produce are going to be small market niche items. If sales really take off one of these items, just watch the manufacturer open a factory in China and move those jobs there.

So is this a potentially good move for world trading markets? Yes if it actually happens. Does this mean a huge influx of jobs into the domestic manufacturing sector. Not necessarily, we have to compete strongly on cost to sell in China, this is not our strong suit.

Lastly, in order to be able to produce items cheaper, we will need to be able to use the entire North American supply chain, which means low-cost manufactured in Mexico. This is something that Trump has also gone after, to try to force jobs here in the US for components, but that will raise their cost and make the overall assembled vehicle less competitive in the Chinese market, so which way are we going on this?

We can't afford to raise cost on cars manufactured in the US, (which are already uncompetitive and unprofitable, andhave been exited by the domestic manufacturers,) and then turn around and be able to expect to sell into an even more competitive Chinese market.

So who is likely to benefit, probably some luxury items, like BMW's, Tesla's and maybe whatever else we make here on the luxury side.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Regarding auto tariffs.

Put aside the lack of detail and confirmation from the Chinese... Let's assume they will severely reduce auto import tariffs.


Whats the summer of the potential impacts of this?

Firstly, WTO rules will require that they apply to all trading nations. That means Japan, Korea, Europe, & India will also have greater access to the Chinese market. A good thing.

Does that mean US auto exports will skyrocket? Well, what do we have that will sell there?

As the Ford and GM strategic announcements have demonstrated, the US domestic market is moving away from cars heavily and moving into trucks and SUVs. The factories we use to make cars are shuttering. Do we think the Chinese auto market as a big unmet need for large trucks? Or are they going to want smaller low-cost vehicles that may be better served by other manufacturers? Remember they can buy from Korea, Japan or anywhere else no guarantees it's from the US.

Secondly, in terms of auto manufacturing, when there are large volume sold the manufacturer will try to place a factory in the market in which they are sold. This is why GM has a car plans ready in China. What is not efficient, not a Lean manufacturing technique, is to assemble cars here and then ship them to the other side of the planet. So what volumes we are likely to be able to produce are going to be small market niche items. If sales really take off one of these items, just watch the manufacturer open a factory in China and move those jobs there.

So is this a potentially good move for world trading markets? Yes if it actually happens. Does this mean a huge influx of jobs into the domestic manufacturing sector. Not necessarily, we have to compete strongly on cost to sell in China, this is not our strong suit.

Lastly, in order to be able to produce items cheaper, we will need to be able to use the entire North American supply chain, which means low-cost manufactured in Mexico. This is something that Trump has also gone after, to try to force jobs here in the US for components, but that will raise their cost and make the overall assembled vehicle less competitive in the Chinese market, so which way are we going on this?

We can't afford to raise cost on cars manufactured in the US, (which are already uncompetitive and unprofitable, andhave been exited by the domestic manufacturers,) and then turn around and be able to expect to sell into an even more competitive Chinese market.

So who is likely to benefit, probably some luxury items, like BMW's, Tesla's and maybe whatever else we make here on the luxury side.

I think in net it would be a benefit to the world which would help the US. It should help grow global demand for many things which would drive up not only the US auto industry, but other industries.
 
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