Trump and China call cease fire on tariffs

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Michael

Elite member
Nov 19, 1999
5,435
234
106
People are making money shipping depressed price US soybeans to Argentina who sells their soybeans to China at a higher price. I wouldn't be surprised if they just do something like switching the labels.

That type of transship and relabel is a common tariff dodge. Usually the Chinese send foods through a place like Malaysia and change the paperwork to say it is Malaysian in origin. Probably Chinese doing the reverse to generate some additional profits.

I almost did not post again as my first post for me a 100% negative score and I was thinking of quitting while on the top.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
Actually, China tariffs were 25%. They lowered them to 15% at the start of the trade tensions and this was because of Trump pushing for it. They then raised them to 40% for the USA in retaliation, but that does not change the fact that the 15% came from the trade war.

That’s a fair point, good to note! It should be noted though that reductions of that sort (and far more) were ones he probably could have gotten through China having to deal with the TPP anyway.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
That type of transship and relabel is a common tariff dodge. Usually the Chinese send foods through a place like Malaysia and change the paperwork to say it is Malaysian in origin. Probably Chinese doing the reverse to generate some additional profits.

I almost did not post again as my first post for me a 100% negative score and I was thinking of quitting while on the top.

Yeah, but that 100% negative score was based on a single vote. If you want to really be impressive and go out on top let’s see you rack up a couple dozen negative reactions without a single positive one. Then I would be impressed!
 

Michael

Elite member
Nov 19, 1999
5,435
234
106
That’s a fair point, good to note! It should be noted though that reductions of that sort (and far more) were ones he probably could have gotten through China having to deal with the TPP anyway.

I doubt it, I lived there for 5 years and China has never done more than make promises they did not keep. TPP does not really change much on automotive tariffs. This is the first significant confrontation on trade since China moved past "developing" to a major world economy. The government did a good job of uplifting the average Chinese citizen and carefully protected segments of their economy from foreign competition, but it is time for them to open up.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
I doubt it, I lived there for 5 years and China has never done more than make promises they did not keep. TPP does not really change much on automotive tariffs. This is the first significant confrontation on trade since China moved past "developing" to a major world economy. The government did a good job of uplifting the average Chinese citizen and carefully protected segments of their economy from foreign competition, but it is time for them to open up.

CPTPP contains significant reductions in both tariffs and country of origin rules as compared to what we have currently.

Regardless, China often makes promises it does not keep but the US would have had far more leverage with the TPP than it has now. If the goal was to have them make promises they would keep it would have been smarter to go that route. Unfortunately, the people running our country are not smart.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
I doubt it, I lived there for 5 years and China has never done more than make promises they did not keep. TPP does not really change much on automotive tariffs. This is the first significant confrontation on trade since China moved past "developing" to a major world economy. The government did a good job of uplifting the average Chinese citizen and carefully protected segments of their economy from foreign competition, but it is time for them to open up.

dont quit. Hope you are well man. Have a good holiday season.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,850
136
No deal. Tariffs go to 25%. Trump threatening the remainder of Chinese imports which are not subject to tariffs yet. Every last person in finance I've talked to for the last several months had banked on this getting done so going to be an interesting ride.

Here is his utter lunacy this morning:

 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,561
13,122
136
Guess who suggested tariffs to Trump?
His name starts with a P and ends with an utin. I dont even have a source for that postulate, yet we all know its most likely true.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
How nice of Trump, he’s going to tax Americans and use that money to buy the agricultural products that China used to buy from us, then ship it off to other countries for free.

Because Trump lies so much it’s hard to tell if he’s just continuing to lie about how tariffs bring money into the country or if he’s really just this stupid. Apparently he’s had this wrong belief about tariffs his whole life though so for nice Team Stupid might have a lead on Team Lie.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
No deal. Tariffs go to 25%. Trump threatening the remainder of Chinese imports which are not subject to tariffs yet. Every last person in finance I've talked to for the last several months had banked on this getting done so going to be an interesting ride.

Here is his utter lunacy this morning:

View attachment 6186
Sorry but what he did is absolutely the correct move here. They literally reneged on every single thing that was previously agreed. That isn't negotiating. That is being an ignorant piece of shit country.

Want to play games? Fine, fuck off.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
Sorry but what he did is absolutely the correct move here. They literally reneged on every single thing that was previously agreed. That isn't negotiating. That is being an ignorant piece of shit country.

Want to play games? Fine, fuck off.

No, this was a stupid fight Trump picked to begin with because he doesn’t understand how international trade works.

He should have gone the Obama route with TPP to rein China in but because The Black Guy did it we are stuck with this stupidity.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,850
136
Sorry but what he did is absolutely the correct move here. They literally reneged on every single thing that was previously agreed. That isn't negotiating. That is being an ignorant piece of shit country.

Want to play games? Fine, fuck off.

This whole process has been a motherfucking disaster. A comprehensive deal with China was never going to be easy nor would getting them to make significant concessions that they'd adhere to be a simple matter. Trump misled everyone because of his own incompetence about what was possible and likely, not to mention the minor fact that he has no idea what a trade imbalance actually is/means (as opposed to a corporate balance sheet). Now he's double and tripling down in order to look tough. The real repercussions of these poor decisions won't be able to be bullshitted around much longer though.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,850
136
No, this was a stupid fight Trump picked to begin with because he doesn’t understand how international trade works.

He should have gone the Obama route with TPP to rein China in but because The Black Guy did it we are stuck with this stupidity.

Ironically since the rest of the TPP countries went ahead and ratified the pact US AG exports to much of Asia are now at a huge disadvantage to products from Canada and Australia. The US AG sector has gotten epically reamed by Trump's stupidity and it looks to get worse.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
This whole process has been a motherfucking disaster. A comprehensive deal with China was never going to be easy nor would getting them to make significant concessions that they'd adhere to be a simple matter. Trump misled everyone because of his own incompetence about what was possible and likely, not to mention the minor fact that he has no idea what a trade imbalance actually is/means (as opposed to a corporate balance sheet). Now he's double and tripling down in order to look tough. The real repercussions of these poor decisions won't be able to be bullshitted around much longer though.

First yes, Trump made unrealistic promises because he doesn’t understand the topic and is too lazy to learn. Also important though is that Trump is not a reliable negotiator so other countries are reluctant to make significant concessions to him. After all, we got to where we are now because Trump decided to unilaterally rip up other trade deals the US pledged to honor. He has a reputation earned over a lifetime for reneging on deals he made. Why would anyone believe a word he says?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
Ironically since the rest of the TPP countries went ahead and ratified the pact US AG exports to much of Asia are now at a huge disadvantage to products from Canada and Australia. The US AG sector has gotten epically reamed by Trump's stupidity and it looks to get worse.

Even more ironic, Trump is now complaining about how the other countries in the TPP are enjoying lower tariffs than the US and how it’s totally unfair to the US that we don’t get the same preferential rates.

Durrrrrrrrr.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,850
136
First yes, Trump made unrealistic promises because he doesn’t understand the topic and is too lazy to learn. Also important though is that Trump is not a reliable negotiator so other countries are reluctant to make significant concessions to him. After all, we got to where we are now because Trump decided to unilaterally rip up other trade deals the US pledged to honor. He has a reputation earned over a lifetime for reneging on deals he made. Why would anyone believe a word he says?

Being unreliable AND untrustworthy is probably not a recipe for productive negotiating. There is a reason Trump was down to basically selling his name for stuff before he ran for office.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,850
136
Even more ironic, Trump is now complaining about how the other countries in the TPP are enjoying lower tariffs than the US and how it’s totally unfair to the US that we don’t get the same preferential rates.

Durrrrrrrrr.

Yes, he keeps demanding countries like Japan just unilaterally give him the same deal and they won't even take his trade reps calls. So that's not happening.

Navarro once flat out said he couldn't understand why countries would not make unilateral trade concessions to the US just because. Morons.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
Being unreliable AND untrustworthy is probably not a recipe for productive negotiating. There is a reason Trump was down to basically selling his name for stuff before he ran for office.

Yup. I think this will be one of Trump’s most lasting effects, that the US is simply no longer regarded as a reliable steward of the international order. As I’ve said before we are going to pay a ‘Trump premium’ on every deal we make because other countries can no longer rely on the US to abide by these deals.

Also, weren’t people a saying a while back that China was going to collapse and give in to Trump’s demands any minute now? Hmm. Apparently not.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,291
28,144
136
Sorry but what he did is absolutely the correct move here. They literally reneged on every single thing that was previously agreed. That isn't negotiating. That is being an ignorant piece of shit country.

Want to play games? Fine, fuck off.
You should be ashamed of yourself. We can all hear the slurping sounds.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
No, this was a stupid fight Trump picked to begin with because he doesn’t understand how international trade works.

He should have gone the Obama route with TPP to rein China in but because The Black Guy did it we are stuck with this stupidity.

This whole process has been a motherfucking disaster. A comprehensive deal with China was never going to be easy nor would getting them to make significant concessions that they'd adhere to be a simple matter. Trump misled everyone because of his own incompetence about what was possible and likely, not to mention the minor fact that he has no idea what a trade imbalance actually is/means (as opposed to a corporate balance sheet). Now he's double and tripling down in order to look tough. The real repercussions of these poor decisions won't be able to be bullshitted around much longer though.

You know, I keep hearing this - prices are going to skyrocket (1 year ago... now any day now... sometime...)... Hasn't happened.

Meanwhile, our GDP just recently shot up and is expected to beat expectations @ 3.2%. So I mean... any day now those tariffs will gut it, right? The US has literally gone 10 years without 3% or higher GDP and were expected to finally hit it this year. Buuuut tariffs! Any day now will crush our economy. Aaaaaaaaaaaanyday now.

This whole fearmongering messaging isn't working - and there has been zero proof of it really hindering us.

In fact - the only news I've heard related to tariffs hurting us, has been China's retaliatory tariffs hurting our farming sector.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
You know, I keep hearing this - prices are going to skyrocket (1 year ago... now any day now... sometime...)... Hasn't happened.

Meanwhile, our GDP just recently shot up and is expected to beat expectations @ 3.2%. So I mean... any day now those tariffs will gut it, right? The US has literally gone 10 years without 3% or higher GDP and were expected to finally hit it this year. Buuuut tariffs! Any day now will crush our economy. Aaaaaaaaaaaanyday now.

Prices on goods related to the tariffs can and have skyrocketed. Trade is a relatively small part of our economy though so anyone who is saying this is going to crush our economy doesn't know what they are talking about.

It is hurting our economy though, that's just math. We are paying more for the same goods for no benefit.

This whole fearmongering messaging isn't working - and there has been zero proof of it really hindering us.

In fact - the only news I've heard related to tariffs hurting us, has been China's retaliatory tariffs hurting our farming sector.

I agree that conservative fearmongering about trade isn't working - free trade is becoming more and more popular and the popularity of Trump's tariffs is in the toilet. People just aren't buying his fear campaign, which is why his tariffs are unpopular with voters.

This trade war is stupid and it's costing us money for no good reason. All because the president is too stupid to understand how international trade works and too stubborn to learn better.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,821
29,574
146
Sorry but what he did is absolutely the correct move here. They literally reneged on every single thing that was previously agreed. That isn't negotiating. That is being an ignorant piece of shit country.

Want to play games? Fine, fuck off.

How are you "in Finance" again?
 
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