Trump and Kim have now shaken hands...breaking

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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
22,941
21,060
136
Lol well I just have to get my fiancee in as an American citizen selling political asylum then
Canada won't have us, sorry. I understand that Vancouver has a decent climate relative to other places, but at the rate Trump is alienating the universe (except for Kim of course) I don't know how long we'll be allowed entry. I'm half kidding.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,593
28,667
136
Lest we all get clouded in the Trump colored glasses of...

"historical summit"
"Trump has done more in 1.5 year then any other President"
"Trump deserves a Nobel Prize"

Don't forget their stance on just talking, and remember the US gave up a lot and got nothing to date.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,896
7,922
136
...and NK will have bought themselves another year or two to get a deployable weapon ready.

If you believe the ultimate end is a nuclear war, then what is it you want from people today?
I'm assuming your choice of action is a United States first strike / invasion of North Korea.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
What part of "We can resume joint exercises at any time" do you fail to comprehend?

Doing so would be a dramatic statement of disapproval of developments in the DPRK.

The whole episode here is highly contrived on the part of Trump, a faux crisis with a faux resolution, at least so far. The notion that the DPRK poses a threat to this country rather than to the ROK is absurd from the get-go.

I can't even imagine what the ROK govt thinks about the way Trump is dissing them.

Providing cover for Trump and the GOP?

What's a gish anyway? Are they like unicorns?

The point remains, BTW. Trump offered without the approval of SK to end exercises and Kim has been offered a carrot with nothing in return. ROK? Who brought that up?
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,221
4,452
136
If you believe the ultimate end is a nuclear war, then what is it you want from people today?
I'm assuming your choice of action is a United States first strike / invasion of North Korea.

I am not sure what the solution is. But NK's goal is not nuclear war. The goal is to have the power to be untouchable. Once he can field a credible nuclear threat he can in essence use it to blackmail the rest of the world. He gets to join the MAD club and basically no longer worry about other countries interfering with how he runs his country. He can all but ignore most sanctions. He can run blockades with the threat of nuclear retaliation for attacking his ships.

I honestly don't know how to stop them. I'm just pointing out that this is a pattern they have been repeating for several decades now and I see no reason that this is not the same play they have made every time. How often are we going to fall for the same ploy?
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
27,497
26,522
136
So the same could be said of the Iranians with the Obama deal? After all both are about curbing nuclear winter.

Iran was a multi party negotiation so calling it "the Obama deal" is misleading at best. The Iran deal also did not involve a face to face summit with the leader of Iran and the sitting US President The two processes are not even remotely the same.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,967
8,479
136
So...Kim gets the legitimization and the seat at the table he and his family have always wanted, South Korea gets the rug pulled out from under them, and America gets...well, nothing so far apart from empty promises. Art of the Deal, baby!

It might be stupid, or it might not be. It's entirely possible that Trump, the president himself, can live with Kim retaining some of the weapons he already has for self-defense purposes. Canceling the exercises (without even mentioning it to SK) is just the first step. KJU and Trump have now gotten together and basically agreed on the approach that it will be SK giving all the concessions that Trump and Kim agree to. In Trump's defense, he is an inveterate liar who frequently reneges on promises, so the war games thing isn't a lock.

It doesn't matter what Trump says, or even what he puts on paper. It matters what he will do, and keep doing for the long term. And if there's anything you can learn from his entire history as a businessman, it's that he doesn't stick to any agreement for very long after he perceives some benefit to himself of breaking it.

And I can guarantee you Kim know that perfectly well. It's not as if he was secluded away in isolation his entire life in North Korea.. he attended a Swiss boarding school. He's been at the tip-top of the elites from day one, he's always been aware of the real status of his country relative to others, it just doesn't concern him as long as he stays king of shit mountain. That's what victory is for him, it's not nuking the USA or South Korea or Japan, bellicose rhetoric to that end is purely a means to an end.. his regime remaining firmly in power. He's achieved more in the past year to cement his status among his people, especially the military elites, than he could possibly have hoped. He's being met with as an equal, the US caved on its long standing policy of not rewarding bad behavior with splashy diplomatic initiatives and he has tons of footage of himself being treated with respect by other world leaders. He's going to keep his nukes. He might agree to some arbitrary but pointless limit (like 50, or whatever... ), signing some formal peace treaty and re-positioning his conventional forces slightly further from the DMZ. For those returns I don't consider what we've already given him worth it.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Lol well I just have to get my fiancee in as an American citizen selling political asylum then

It really depends on your marketability. Canada won't just take anyone in but if either have skills in demand then you might get in. My daughter could as an educator in some locations and then citizenship would be easier for her. I have to be a sex worker to get in NZ right now, and believe me no one is going to pay me for that

Yeah sex workers are being added to the "in demand" list.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
I am not sure what the solution is. But NK's goal is not nuclear war. The goal is to have the power to be untouchable. Once he can field a credible nuclear threat he can in essence use it to blackmail the rest of the world. He gets to join the MAD club and basically no longer worry about other countries interfering with how he runs his country. He can all but ignore most sanctions. He can run blockades with the threat of nuclear retaliation for attacking his ships.

I honestly don't know how to stop them. I'm just pointing out that this is a pattern they have been repeating for several decades now and I see no reason that this is not the same play they have made every time. How often are we going to fall for the same ploy?

Not to suggest you're doing this, but don't think it's really fair to criticize any world leader for seeking nuclear weapons when the US has consistently attacked and destroyed nations without those weapons, while nations that have them survive.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
27,497
26,522
136
It really depends on your marketability. Canada won't just take anyone in but if either have skills in demand then you might get in. My daughter could as an educator in some locations and then citizenship would be easier for her. I have to be a sex worker to get in NZ right now, and believe me no one is going to pay me for that

Yeah sex workers are being added to the "in demand" list.

NZ must be getting more wealthy. They don't HAVE to fuck sheep anymore!
 
Reactions: sandorski

paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
6,517
280
126
www.the-teh.com
Not even close.

Reminds me of my favorite Megadeth song:


Iran is a fully recognized state, North Korea isn't even a member of the UN. Do you know the difference?

And that matters why? Nukes have no boundaries. They don't care if you belong to the useless UN.

Iran was a multi party negotiation so calling it "the Obama deal" is misleading at best. The Iran deal also did not involve a face to face summit with the leader of Iran and the sitting US President The two processes are not even remotely the same.

Splitting hairs just to make one president look better or worse over the other... Goal is to denuclearize.
 
Last edited:

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Not to suggest you're doing this, but don't think it's really fair to criticize any world leader for seeking nuclear weapons when the US has consistently attacked and destroyed nations without those weapons, while nations that have them survive.

It wasn't that much of an issue until the turn if the century or so. NK wanted nukes because it wanted nukes. There was no realistic expectation that anyone would attack them. I mean why? SK was OK and NK had nothing anyone wanted. It's the nuke problem that bit them in the ass. The rest of the world? Trump has turned on allies and talks about Canadians suffering because he didn't like how Trudeau spoke to him. The Master must not be challenged. Heh, I'm seeing Trump as Robert Delgado right now.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
It wasn't that much of an issue until the turn if the century or so. NK wanted nukes because it wanted nukes. There was no realistic expectation that anyone would attack them. I mean why? SK was OK and NK had nothing anyone wanted. It's the nuke problem that bit them in the ass. The rest of the world? Trump has turned on allies and talks about Canadians suffering because he didn't like how Trudeau spoke to him. The Master must not be challenged. Heh, I'm seeing Trump as Robert Delgado right now.

I mean, it's absolutely astounding to say that when the peninsula was crawling with American and Chinese soldiers 65 years ago.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,221
4,452
136
Not to suggest you're doing this, but don't think it's really fair to criticize any world leader for seeking nuclear weapons when the US has consistently attacked and destroyed nations without those weapons, while nations that have them survive.

No, I completely agree. I think it is the smart thing to do. Hell, if I was the leader of a nation I would certainly be pushing a nuclear program. At the same time, recognizing that it is easy for me to say as a citizen of a nation that already has them, I would rather there not be any more. The more nations that have nukes the better the chance they will eventually be used.

I really feel that we are just delaying the first truly nuclear war. The longer we can limit the number of nations with nuclear weapons the longer we will push back that inevitable war.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
So the same could be said of the Iranians with the Obama deal? After all both are about curbing nuclear winter.
I like it when someone makes it stark and obvious that they have no grasp of what's going on or how things work.

Kudos, paperfist.
 
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