Trump and Kim have now shaken hands...breaking

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,557
50,733
136
There is also a chance that Kim gets assassinated when he goes home to NK by the ultra hardliners for this agreement. Now we just wait and see what the outcome is, obviously everyone should be hoping for the best but definitely prepare for the worse.

Why would he be assassinated for this agreement? He elevated North Korea on the world stage, got the US to stop military exercises, drove a wedge between the US and South Korea, and got China’s support for reducing sanctions. What did he give up for this? Nothing.

Again, perhaps future developments will yield something more positive for the US but at least so far this is North Korea’s dream come true.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,524
15,405
136
Awesome first step.

Only could the guy that complained about the Iran deal, give so much praise to someone who has done barely the same failed deal as past presidents, call this an "awesome" first step.

Amazing how the fluffers all come out at once when their president needs them the most.
 

dyna

Senior member
Oct 20, 2006
813
61
91
Why would he be assassinated for this agreement? He elevated North Korea on the world stage, got the US to stop military exercises, drove a wedge between the US and South Korea, and got China’s support for reducing sanctions. What did he give up for this? Nothing.

Again, perhaps future developments will yield something more positive for the US but at least so far this is North Korea’s dream come true.

I don't see a wedge formed between US and South Korea, apparently South Korea hails it as the talk of the century.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...kim-singapore-summit-as-talks-of-the-10423218
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,557
50,733
136
I don't see a wedge formed between US and South Korea, apparently South Korea hails it as the talk of the century.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...kim-singapore-summit-as-talks-of-the-10423218

First, that was a newspaper editorial. Second and more importantly, that was as the meeting started. After the meeting ended here’s the statement of SK’s government:

“At this moment, the meaning and intention of President Trump's remarks requires more clear understanding.”

Ie: ‘what the fuck just happened’.

https://mobile.twitter.com/elisewho/status/1006469063583756288
 

Aegeon

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2004
1,809
125
106
I don't see a wedge formed between US and South Korea, apparently South Korea hails it as the talk of the century.
South Korea actually appears rather shocked and angry about Trump suddenly announcing the apparent permanent halt of future war games between them and the US. (It appears you are talking about some sources before they knew any of the details.)

Seoul's presidential office told The Associated Press that it was trying to parse Trump's comments. The South Korean military seemed similarly surprised.

"At this current point, there is a need to discern the exact meaning and intent of President Trump's comments," Seoul's Defense Ministry said, adding that there have been no discussions yet with Washington on modifying drills set for August...

Moon Seong Mook, a former South Korean military official, said Trump's comments on the drills confirmed what many in South Korea had feared all along — that North Korea would attempt to drive a wedge between Washington and Seoul and gain substantial concessions from an unconventional U.S. president who thinks much less of the traditional alliance than his predecessors.

"The core of the U.S.-South Korea alliance is the U.S. troops stationed in South Korea and the joint U.S.-South Korea military drills, but the American military presence in South Korea wouldn't mean much if the militaries don't practice through joint drills," said Moon, now a senior analyst for the Seoul-based Korea Research Institute for National Strategy. "I am concerned that the summit between Trump and Kim will prove to be a setback in the global efforts to denuclearize North Korea and also introduce instability in the alliance between Seoul and Washington."
https://www.sfgate.com/news/world/article/Trump-s-vow-to-end-military-drills-with-Seoul-12986931.php

You can argue they are being more careful about what they are saying publicly than Trump would be, but that certainly does not mean they are happy about Trump suddenly saying this without apparently actually properly consulting with South Korea in advance.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,905
5,532
136
It's never been so obvious that it's


lol, you Trumpboys are so desperate to have something to hang your little pink hats on that you don't care what you give up to do it.
What's obvious is that no matter what comes out of the meeting, you'll call it a total failure.
 
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dyna

Senior member
Oct 20, 2006
813
61
91
South Korea actually appears rather shocked and angry about Trump suddenly announcing the apparent permanent halt of future war games between them and the US. (It appears you are talking about some sources before they knew any of the details.)


https://www.sfgate.com/news/world/article/Trump-s-vow-to-end-military-drills-with-Seoul-12986931.php

You can argue they are being more careful about what they are saying publicly than Trump would be, but that certainly does not mean they are happy about Trump suddenly saying this without apparently actually properly consulting with South Korea in advance.

Not really, just click on the homepage of the site I linked to. Its all positive news in Asia. The media over there isn't driven by politics but rather facts apparently.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Not really, just click on the homepage of the site I linked to. Its all positive news in Asia. The media over there isn't driven by politics but rather facts apparently.

Please link us to an article that says anybody in Asia is happy about the ending of the military exercises and removing of US troops from South Korea. I didn't find any from that website you linked.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,557
50,733
136

None of those articles say that. Ironically, you're letting politics get in the way of facts.

World leaders are always going to say nice things about talks like this but if you think that shows their real opinion of them you're incredibly naive. The US received no meaningful concessions from North Korea while deciding to abandon one of the centerpieces of the US/South Korea military alliance and even worse, did so without even consulting South Korea. Trump then adopted North Korea's language relating to the exercises, making it more difficult for whoever replaces Trump to restart them. If you think South Korea is happy about that you're nuts.
 

Aegeon

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2004
1,809
125
106
Not really, just click on the homepage of the site I linked to. Its all positive news in Asia. The media over there isn't driven by politics but rather facts apparently.
Uh, you appear to be avoiding presenting these facts, or actually showing media reacting to the results of the meeting.

The article you linked to references a Korean Times editorial basically hoping for a productive meeting, and a university student excited about the meeting itself. (It should be noted that historically some Korean university students have leaned way left and been highly unrealistic about the prospects for unification. "I.E. things in the North are not at all that that bad and it would be easy for all us to live in peace in harmony if not for our government.")

In case there is any confusion on this point, you linked to a Singapore news source, and to the extent the government exerts influence on its news media, it is going to be inclined to portray the meeting as historic and a success regardless of what would truly be the most accurate.
 

dyna

Senior member
Oct 20, 2006
813
61
91
Link to one specifically and quote the appropriate passage. If there are so many it shouldn't be any big deal for you.

After reading this, I can see it only as a positive reaction from South Korea. Do you agree?

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...t-end-cold-war-south-korea-president-10424450

SEOUL: South Korean President Moon Jae-in on Tuesday (Jun 12) hailed the outcome of the summit between President Trump and the North's leader Kim Jong Un as a "historic event" that ended the last Cold War conflict.

"I offer my heartfelt congratulations and welcome the success of the historic North Korea-United States summit", Moon said in a statement.


"The June 12 Sentosa Agreement will be recorded as a historic event that has helped break down the last remaining Cold War legacy on Earth," he said.

Moon has made great efforts playing the role of mediator to bring the Cold War foes back to dialogue.

He praised Trump and Kim for their "courage and determination" not to settle for "that outdated and familiar reality but to take a daring step towards change".

He lionised Trump for achieving "a feat that no one else has ever delivered", adding Kim would also be remembered as "a leader who made a historic moment by taking the first bold step toward the world"
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,557
50,733
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Reactions: Aegeon
Nov 30, 2006
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Making upfront concessions to get someone to agree to your long term proposals is absolutely a viable bargaining technique. Maybe that’s what’s going on here but does anyone think that’s particularly likely?
Yes. Good faith gestures help to build trust and you have to start somewhere.
 

dyna

Senior member
Oct 20, 2006
813
61
91
Do you actually believe that statement reflects South Korea's genuine position on the outcome of the talks?

Like... seriously?

I would bet we get a bunch of leaks in the coming days about how the South Korean government is super pissed at Trump for throwing them under the bus like this.

Please tell me your interpretation of the article.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Don't post on a message board for all to see your hypocrisy if you don't want to be called out on it. Or don't be a hypocrite works just as well. You gave Obama and Democrats zero slack if things weren't done to perfection and solved every problem (remember our conversations about the ACA), and yet here you are, going out of your way to find something positive about this "deal", of which has been done before, multiple times, without success. To be clear though, I don't think you are a racist, you are just much more tribal than you think.

My you are a fulsome twat today.

Obama was in office for eight years. In that time I had two major bones of contention, the sloppy ACA and the lack of spine regarding MJ. I also didn't care for what I saw with Assad early on when it looked like we were going to attack. Kerry put his foot in his mouth so that was the end of that. "Done to perfection and solved every problem" is so hyperbolic as to take your argument and strangle it in the vagina of rationalism. Let that imagery soak in.

You have asked for this, full pedantic, well not full on because it's boring and unnecessary.

Trump has created an event. That's pretty much it right there in "praise", faint praise indeed. But events are the catalysts for others. Like electrons in an orbit, one cannot "localize" a particular location or consequence. But not all areas in the cloud are equally probable. Likewise so are events in history- you never know exactly what will happen until the event "collapses" from probability to reality.

Now you have gotten pretty weird with insisting there is a linkage between my speculation as to possibilities and some admiration for Trump. Let's consider another "genius" as you apparently think I think of Trump- Gavrilo Princip. You know who he is, right? Let me refresh your memory. There was this really big conflict, the "War to End All Wars", The "Great War", AKA WWI. I'll assume you heard of it.

Well here's the thing. There was a lot going on in Europe at the time, and we got this huge honking war out of it. Why? Because of the Trumpian genius of Gavrilo. You wouldn't think he was the greatest mastermind of the day, but by the "logic" you use he must of been. Gav, I'll call him Gav, was the final straw, the tiny spark, and other metaphors which caused the house of cards which was Europe to be caught up in a most horrific of wars. Yes Gav did all that! What a brilliant if sinister man, to be able to look and see what needed to be done and then do it.

Yeah, that was something, just like Trump is a genius.

Now, this farcical thought process is what you have just performed by assuming I gave Trump any real credit for "genius". Trump has created an event, and by doing so has started things in motion. When the "wave function" is collapsed, when the electron is located, what the fate of the cat is once the box is opened is anyone's guess.

Fun fact- Did you know that intelligence agencies make assessments of foreign players, leaders in particular? It's true! Even black presidents can benefit from it, shocking I know. Something you may not know is that these aren't designed like algorithms, with "Do this and Putin does that". No, it's more like assessments of quantum states, the generation of clouds of probabilities of responses based on observable traits and psychological methodology. Intelligent people *even black ones* (you really asked for this) know or are at least able to be taught and understand this. Obama was pretty good with diplomatic assessments, whether he was mindful in a metacognative way or not of his methodology. Oh, he wasn't perfect so I suppose that's one for you tally sheet. Pretty good though, better than his predecessor for sure. That was a white guy BTW.

So while you may be incapable of differentiating all this, I am not "giving credit", I am looking at an event which causes a cascade of other like in the decay of a particle, and attempting to determine as best I may the probabilities of outcome downstream. How smart does this particle have to be to decay? How smart did Gav have to be? How smart does Trump have to be?

The question is entirely inapplicable. It's the current state and events which occur which trigger others.

Within the cloud of possible outcomes that is you, I have formed an opinion as to likely probabilities.

You seemsto be reasonably intelligent but you need to get that blood-sucking partisan parasitic tick out of your mind every now and again. Not everything is about Dems, or Reps or Obama. In this instance, Trump serves as a catalyst and most of them I've come upon aren't very clever.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Almost every article on the page. They appear to be in a state of euphoria in Asia right now.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/international

Where is the article that actually discussing Trump's statement? I only found this from a Middle Eastern news source - http://timesofoman.com/article/1363...edge-to-end-military-exercises-in-South-Korea

One South Korean official said he initially thought Trump had misspoke.

"I was shocked when he called the exercises 'provocative,' a very unlikely word to be used by a US president," the official said on condition of anonymity to discuss a politically sensitive issue.

If implemented, the plan could be one of the most concrete and controversial moves to come from Trump's summit with Kim, who pledged to pursue denuclearisation but offered no details.

South Korea said last month that the issue of US troops stationed there was unrelated to any future peace treaty with North Korea and that American forces should stay even if such an agreement were signed.

"South Korea will have mixed feelings toward Trump’s remarks," said Lee Il-woo, a director at Korea Defense Network in Seoul.

"The country will welcome reducing the military exercises, as it could ease the decades-long tension on the Korean peninsula. But at the same time it will worry in terms of the possible negative consequences, as the reduction could scare South Koreans."
 
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