Trump and Kim have now shaken hands...breaking

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Aegeon

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2004
1,809
125
106
Please tell me your interpretation of the article.
Its called a prewritten statement made before South Korea was apparently aware of critical details of what Trump had agreed to in private. (Including an apparent specific promise to end joint training exercises which appears to have blindsided South Korea, suggesting he either had not warned them he would make such a concession, or they thought he had clearly agreed in advance not to do so at the meeting. By contrast North Korea's decentralization pledge appears to be way more vague without key enforcement mechanisms.)
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,554
50,730
136
Please tell me your interpretation of the article.

I already did? South Korea's government made the same sort of statement that every government makes after talks like this. I'm not sure if you have much experience with this stuff but I used to work for a firm that did a lot of business in the UN and I have some friends that still work at the UN. After basically every meeting of this sort all parties release similar statements to this declaring whatever just happened to be the best thing ever. It has zero bearing on their actual position. Don't take my word for it, pick basically any summit you can think of and look up the statements by the parties involved. Everything's always a huge success.

I believe that their actual position is one of alarm that Trump gave away an important part of US/SK military cooperation in exchange for nothing.
 

dyna

Senior member
Oct 20, 2006
813
61
91
I already did? South Korea's government made the same sort of statement that every government makes after talks like this. I'm not sure if you have much experience with this stuff but I used to work for a firm that did a lot of business in the UN and I have some friends that still work at the UN. After basically every meeting of this sort all parties release similar statements to this declaring whatever just happened to be the best thing ever. It has zero bearing on their actual position. Don't take my word for it, pick basically any summit you can think of and look up the statements by the parties involved. Everything's always a huge success.

I believe that their actual position is one of alarm that Trump gave away an important part of US/SK military cooperation in exchange for nothing.

OK, humor me. What exactly is needed for you to believe that South Korea views this summit as successful? I linked quotes from the South Korean President he made after the summit. You literally have left no room for this summit to have been successful if you can't believe statements made by the leader of the country with the most at stake.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,632
28,769
136
Trump has now done more in 1.5 years than Obama did in 8. Man I’m excited for another term from my President.
Spell our specifically what he did. Here's what I saw. A photo-op where NK promises to move towards a nuclear free Korea. Nothing in the agreement for verification.
 
Reactions: Aegeon

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,522
15,405
136
Congrats on exposing your inability to comprehend what you read. I never claimed you gave trump credit for anything or that you support trump in any way. What I did was question why you'd have any optimism over this deal and what reasons you can point to. You, of course, didn't bother answering and instead went off on a tangent (I can only assume its because you were triggered by an uncomfortable truth).

Toodles!

My you are a fulsome twat today.

Obama was in office for eight years. In that time I had two major bones of contention, the sloppy ACA and the lack of spine regarding MJ. I also didn't care for what I saw with Assad early on when it looked like we were going to attack. Kerry put his foot in his mouth so that was the end of that. "Done to perfection and solved every problem" is so hyperbolic as to take your argument and strangle it in the vagina of rationalism. Let that imagery soak in.

You have asked for this, full pedantic, well not full on because it's boring and unnecessary.

Trump has created an event. That's pretty much it right there in "praise", faint praise indeed. But events are the catalysts for others. Like electrons in an orbit, one cannot "localize" a particular location or consequence. But not all areas in the cloud are equally probable. Likewise so are events in history- you never know exactly what will happen until the event "collapses" from probability to reality.

Now you have gotten pretty weird with insisting there is a linkage between my speculation as to possibilities and some admiration for Trump. Let's consider another "genius" as you apparently think I think of Trump- Gavrilo Princip. You know who he is, right? Let me refresh your memory. There was this really big conflict, the "War to End All Wars", The "Great War", AKA WWI. I'll assume you heard of it.

Well here's the thing. There was a lot going on in Europe at the time, and we got this huge honking war out of it. Why? Because of the Trumpian genius of Gavrilo. You wouldn't think he was the greatest mastermind of the day, but by the "logic" you use he must of been. Gav, I'll call him Gav, was the final straw, the tiny spark, and other metaphors which caused the house of cards which was Europe to be caught up in a most horrific of wars. Yes Gav did all that! What a brilliant if sinister man, to be able to look and see what needed to be done and then do it.

Yeah, that was something, just like Trump is a genius.

Now, this farcical thought process is what you have just performed by assuming I gave Trump any real credit for "genius". Trump has created an event, and by doing so has started things in motion. When the "wave function" is collapsed, when the electron is located, what the fate of the cat is once the box is opened is anyone's guess.

Fun fact- Did you know that intelligence agencies make assessments of foreign players, leaders in particular? It's true! Even black presidents can benefit from it, shocking I know. Something you may not know is that these aren't designed like algorithms, with "Do this and Putin does that". No, it's more like assessments of quantum states, the generation of clouds of probabilities of responses based on observable traits and psychological methodology. Intelligent people *even black ones* (you really asked for this) know or are at least able to be taught and understand this. Obama was pretty good with diplomatic assessments, whether he was mindful in a metacognative way or not of his methodology. Oh, he wasn't perfect so I suppose that's one for you tally sheet. Pretty good though, better than his predecessor for sure. That was a white guy BTW.

So while you may be incapable of differentiating all this, I am not "giving credit", I am looking at an event which causes a cascade of other like in the decay of a particle, and attempting to determine as best I may the probabilities of outcome downstream. How smart does this particle have to be to decay? How smart did Gav have to be? How smart does Trump have to be?

The question is entirely inapplicable. It's the current state and events which occur which trigger others.

Within the cloud of possible outcomes that is you, I have formed an opinion as to likely probabilities.

You seemsto be reasonably intelligent but you need to get that blood-sucking partisan parasitic tick out of your mind every now and again. Not everything is about Dems, or Reps or Obama. In this instance, Trump serves as a catalyst and most of them I've come upon aren't very clever.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,632
28,769
136
OK, humor me. What exactly is needed for you to believe that South Korea views this summit as successful? I linked quotes from the South Korean President he made after the summit. You literally have left no room for this summit to have been successful if you can't believe statements made by the leader of the country with the most at stake.
Compared to the JCPOA how was this summit successful beyond a photo-op? List specifics
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
OK, humor me. What exactly is needed for you to believe that South Korea views this summit as successful? I linked quotes from the South Korean President he made after the summit. You literally have left no room for this summit to have been successful if you can't believe the leader of the country with the most at stake.

You didn't ask me but the SK leader had one option and that was to be optimistic regardless of expectations. What he really thinks? Something between "This is the greatest thing in the history of the world" and "Oh shit, the end is nigh".
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,554
50,730
136
OK, humor me. What exactly is needed for you to believe that South Korea views this summit as successful? I linked quotes from the South Korean President he made after the summit. You literally have left no room for this summit to have been successful if you can't believe statements made by the leader of the country with the most at stake.

There's plenty of room for the summit to be successful, I'm just telling you that measuring it by public statements like that is a dumb idea because public statements like this label EVERYTHING a success.

The way to measure its success would be one of two ways:

1) looking at what credible, meaningful commitments were made by the two parties. There were none on the part of North Korea.

2) watching what South Korea, North Korea, China, etc, actually DO.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,632
28,769
136
You didn't ask me but the SK leader had one option and that was to be optimistic regardless of expectations. What he really thinks? Something between "This is the greatest thing in the history of the world" and "Oh shit, the end is nigh".
Exactly. Did anyone expect the leader of SK to say anything else?
 

dyna

Senior member
Oct 20, 2006
813
61
91
Compared to the JCPOA how was this summit successful beyond a photo-op? List specifics

The Asian media, the South Korean president have viewed it as successful. What more can you ask at this point? Should Kim and Trump put on some radiation suits and immediately started dismantling nukes? You list what you view as success.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,151
28,789
136
The settlement of the North Korean nuclear problem, which has now been achieved is, in my view, only the prelude to a larger settlement in which all Asia may find peace. This morning I had another talk with the North Korean lead, Kim Jong-un, and here is the paper which bears his name upon it as well as mine. Some of you, perhaps, have already heard what it contains but I would just like to read it to you: " ... We regard the agreement signed last night and the cessation of joint U.S. - South Korean military exercises as symbolic of the desire of our two peoples never to go to war with one another again."

My good friends, for the second time in our history, an American President has returned from Asia bringing peace with honor. I believe it is peace for our time. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Go home and get a nice quiet sleep.

- Neville Trump
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,632
28,769
136
Why am I wrong about how this is being spun.

I ask, "What specifics can you name that proves this summit is a success?"

The answer I'm getting:. "This is a historical summit and Trump has done more then any President in history on North Korea"
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,687
8,884
146
What's obvious is that no matter what comes out of the meeting, you'll call it a total failure.

Let's try this another way. What makes this a success? How is what came out of that meeting any different than the last 20 years of dealing with NK? Vague assurances of future intentions while receiving firm commitments in return. What makes yesterday's meeting successful beyond anything that has occurred before other that Kim finally getting the direct meeting his father and grandfather never could?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Why am I wrong about how this is being spun.

I ask, "What specifics can you name that proves this summit is a success?"

The answer I'm getting:. "This is a historical summit and Trump has done more then any President in history on North Korea"


Fuck all if I know what just happened, in a larger context that is. In terms of specifics and to what was actually gained vs lost, I'd say Kim is up a bishop, knight and two pawns.
 
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