Trump Bat Sh!t crazy thread

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Feb 4, 2009
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I have to admit I have stated (possibly on these forums) the draft should come back simply to put skin in the game regarding dumb foreign actions. Politicians will be far more involved when people who don’t want to go to war are complaining to them about their Children being drafted. Politicians would never hand over all responsibility to the President like they did post 9/11.
However like the tariffs which I don’t think are a bad idea just the former President had no plan with the tariffs other than to brag about them. I suspect a draft under his leadership would be the same.
 
Reactions: pcgeek11

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,802
29,553
146
How about you can only propose this if you served.

Honestly, I don't mind the idea of mandatory national "service" from the ages of 17-24 or whatever. This can be done through Peace Corps, Americorps, Teach America, Habitat, National Guard/Coast Guard/Army through Navy whatever. enlist.

It doesn't have to be away or concurrent, but can be completed over a period of time for a ~two year commitment.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,636
43,801
136
How about you can only propose this if you served.
You'd get rid of a lot of wars this way , i think your onto something, i'd like to make an amendment to this, if you start/vote for war your adult children should have to serve on the front lines
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,802
29,553
146
I have to admit I have stated (possibly on these forums) the draft should come back simply to put skin in the game regarding dumb foreign actions. Politicians will be far more involved when people who don’t want to go to war are complaining to them about their Children being drafted. Politicians would never hand over all responsibility to the President like they did post 9/11.
However like the tariffs which I don’t think are a bad idea just the former President had no plan with the tariffs other than to brag about them. I suspect a draft under his leadership would be the same.

the problem with reinstating the draft is that politicians will just avoid service for their children like they always have, and when you have a despot like Trump at the helm during war time, he will just Putinize the system to ensure that only the children from the "unfavorable" regions of the (former) United States will get sent off to slaughter in his war of vanity.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,695
15,931
136
the problem with reinstating the draft is that politicians will just avoid service for their children like they always have, and when you have a despot like Trump at the helm during war time, he will just Putinize the system to ensure that only the children from the "unfavorable" regions of the (former) United States will get sent off to slaughter in his war of vanity.
I agree the point being is it would absolutely hit the middle class and that’s who votes.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,522
759
146
That really is the Republican / Trump logic in yet another nutshell. Biden economy is so good that basically everyone now (other than convicted felons) have better options than poor-paying and potentially risky military service.

It's high paying and less risky than taxi driver for most enlisted even during a war. There are other risks, too, you know. Some of these are associated with college that a lot of people ignore that are far more common such as earnings risk, academic mismatch/graduating risk, and financing risk. Even then, most of those careers won't pay as well as an enlisted military career (especially if including disability) and you're competing with more capable people (the college bound vs. ASVAB middle school level content screen for enlisted) for the best positions and promotions in a given field.

A lot of people that join wouldn’t even consider jobs like police, trucker, lineman, or roofer, so that should already tell you something. Democrat politicians want minorities and women (even as they suggest 1/3 experience MST or "military sexual trauma”) to join. They don't want diversity for nothing. Both officer and enlisted make around 90th percentile of civilian equivalents on RMC alone (and enlisted more than most BA/BS holders and officers obviously well above) and even in AF you can rank to E-7 in just 10 years. That isn't comparing per diems, reenlistment bonuses, special pays, free pension/subsidized health care at 38, etc..

But by far the biggest benefit is military “disability” so it's optimal to just do one enlistment which can make your time in military one of the highest paid positions in the US. Anyone that wants it gets it currently and it has been this way for awhile, which with COLA is around 5 million plus in benefits at 100% P&T (most common combined rating). It’s the easiest way to be a millionaire at the start of your 20s. If everyone else had worker's comp like this where you can easily get 2-4k monthly lifetime checks and no cost healthcare, you would need trillions annually.

Rather than finding ways to, say, 1) make military service more attractive, and 2) make the military more efficient with less standing manpower

No, it’s because of the inane medical accession standards, which ironically the same government will allow 100% P&T to be cops and pilots. This was made worse with the rollout of Genesis because at least before a lot of things could be hidden and not mentioned. Democrat pols don't care about this kind of discrimination because it's allowing more minorities to get in when the ASVAB score cutoffs have to be lowered.



“We must revamp military accessions and recruiting based on practicality and necessary force effectiveness. With only 25% of the target population for military service able to meet accession standards, the services compete with each other and private industry for the same talent. There are two ways to address this issue: either change the requirements so more people are eligible or make more people able to meet the requirements. Pursue both in short order.”

^ The quality would go up as they would no longer have to take all these special ed people by lowering the ASVAB cutoff. It doesn’t help either though that both veterans and politicians have incentives to lie about military compensation to the public, so something like what Peru (I think) did with college degrees and earnings for students to look at would get more people to enlist and they would all be breaking down the recruiter's door if they knew about all the legalized fraud going on with military "disability".

No, the rich are note exempt. Just those too dumb to pay a doctor to diagnose bone spurs.

lol. The smart thing for most people who aren't trust fund babies is to enlist and then make doc appointments for that sweet disability check and no cost health care. It's better than Boebert trying to hang on for the Congressional benefits that's considerably less and she can't even draw until 60s (if say she got 3 terms for eligibility and was dropped next cycle).
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,491
4,588
136
I'm all for mandatory government service of some type for everyone.

I am totally against the rant above about scamming the system to get disability.

Damn how times change. I just looked up the Base Pay chart and saw that an E-4 with 4 years of service makes more base pay per month than I made in my entire first year in the Navy.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,548
24,761
136
I'm all for mandatory government service of some type for everyone.

I am totally against the rant above about scamming the system to get disability.

Damn how times change. I just looked up the Base Pay chart and saw that an E-4 with 4 years of service makes more base pay per month than I made in my entire first year in the Navy.
Do we really need to revisit the 70s?
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,522
759
146
I'm all for mandatory government service of some type for everyone.

I am totally against the rant above about scamming the system to get disability.

Haha, did you look at next year? E1-E4 get 15% increase next year because of all the constant whining.



Damn how times change. I just looked up the Base Pay chart and saw that an E-4 with 4 years of service makes more base pay per month than I made in my entire first year in the Navy.

90th percentile pay above DoD 70th percentile target pay isn't even close to the largest difference of 2000s and on veterans. It's the fact that around half of veterans now apply for and get disability. They were just bragging recently that roughly 40% of all female veterans are now receiving disability, which is crazy considering that older veterans have lower proportion with ratings and lower combined ratings than veterans after 2000s. WWII veterans only about 10% received disability and ratings were around 10-30%. Practically everyone that applies now gets 70-100% even on first try.


"The average woman Veteran who receives disability compensation benefits from VA has a 68% combined disability rating, and they receive an average of $26,809 in earned disability compensation benefits per year from VA. The average grant rate for women Veterans is 89.2%, meaning that 89% of women Veterans who have applied for disability benefits with VA have received benefits for at least one condition."

Yes. What we are currently doing isn't working.

I'm open to other actual fixes.

I already gave the fix. Reform medical accession. Reminder that the same government allows 100% P&T to be cops and pilots. Not even military pilots who can look forward to high paying jobs want to give up disability.

 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,491
4,588
136
Haha, did you look at next year? E1-E4 get 15% increase next year because of all the constant whining.





90th percentile pay above DoD 70th percentile target pay isn't even close to the largest difference of 2000s and on veterans. It's the fact that around half of veterans now apply for and get disability. They were just bragging recently that roughly 40% of all female veterans are now receiving disability, which is crazy considering that older veterans have lower proportion with ratings and lower combined ratings than veterans after 2000s. WWII veterans only about 10% received disability and ratings were around 10-30%. Practically everyone that applies now gets 70-100% even on first try.


"The average woman Veteran who receives disability compensation benefits from VA has a 68% combined disability rating, and they receive an average of $26,809 in earned disability compensation benefits per year from VA. The average grant rate for women Veterans is 89.2%, meaning that 89% of women Veterans who have applied for disability benefits with VA have received benefits for at least one condition."



I already gave the fix. Reform medical accession. Reminder that the same government allows 100% P&T to be cops and pilots. Not even military pilots who can look forward to high paying jobs want to give up disability.



They really need to stop this scam on the system. I have seen the same thing happening before I retired from my civilian job in 2022. We had lots of new hires coming in working with no disabilities and drawing 100% disability pay from their military service. If you can work a full time job you are NOT Disabled.

When I retired from the Navy you actually had to have a disability to get disability pay.
 
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pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,491
4,588
136
Which ones include the benefits of military enlistment?

With hundreds and thousands of new graduates across the country every year, how will we fund this?

Probably none, I really don't know. Even then I would venture to guess that most service jobs don't require the same commitment of the military service either.

Then again you shouldn't draw a military retirement or medical unless you complete a minimum of 20 years of active service. Unless you have a valid and verified service connected disability percentage. If you are not fit to serve then you get an exemption.

The only funding needed would be the people actually doing a needed job/service. If there are no openings then they don't have to serve. Like when we had a draft for the military everybody didn't get drafted. Some joined on their own and many were exempt for medical reasons and when all the billets were filled many didn't serve at all.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,947
18,265
146
Probably none, I really don't know. Even then I would venture to guess that most service jobs don't require the same commitment of the military service either.

Then again you shouldn't draw a military retirement or medical unless you complete a minimum of 20 years of active service. Unless you have a valid and verified service connected disability percentage. If you are not fit to serve then you get an exemption.

The only funding needed would be the people actually doing a needed job/service. If there are no openings then they don't have to serve. Like when we had a draft for the military everybody didn't get drafted. Some joined on their own and many were exempt for medical reasons and when all the billets were filled many didn't serve at all.

Ok, but I asked specifically about what would people who weren’t allowed to join do, and you replied plenty of civil service jobs to go around. What did you think i meant ?

Kinda sounds like you’ve killed your own stance that civil employment of some form should be required.
 
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