Trump calls on Sessions to stop Mueller probe

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Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,446
106
Low budget stuff is where its at.

BTW, you said you don't watch it, but holy crap is there a lot of it on the internet. The human body is very resilient.
And I have zero difficulty not watching any of it.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,685
6,195
126
I was the one who ended us talking. You never seemed to have trouble talking to me. So why you felt the need to say you never did is strange.

So, in this thread, what do you think I have done wrong small or large. What do you think I could have done to improve my position or how I have conveyed my thoughts?
One thing I didn't care for is while appealing to non extremism and hate, you attacked Jhhnn for issues where you seem like you felt like you had been and maybe were attacked. If there is moral value in the position that you are defending it should be enough just to be right. I think also that at a time when we may be facing a looming constitutional crisis the outcome of which is unclear, and unclear precisely because Trump has widespread and fanatically ginned up support and a supine house and senate, who want to hold on to power, the issue isn't so much how to heal the divide but what to do as it blows up in our faces. You may be talking peace at a time for war. You believe the institutions will hold, others are not so sure. They also may hold but only after a massive disaster.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
I made pasta and meatballs, and my family loved them.

I think at times that's the most important thing.
Indeed, in these turbulent times comfort food is very important, sometimes we all need to shut off the damm TV on occasion but it's difficult at times. It's a train-wreck in slow motion so it's tough to turn away.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
One thing I didn't care for is while appealing to non extremism and hate, you attacked Jhhnn for issues where you seem like you felt like you had been and maybe were attacked. If there is moral value in the position that you are defending it should be enough just to be right.

You are using hyperbolic language that is misleading. I did not attack Jhhnn. He also made no claim of me being right or wrong. The last interaction we had before this, and the time before that were situations where his input did not seem to be connected to reality. He seemed to be agreeing with things I had said in this thread, so why you think I felt attacked, or thought I was defending my position is at best confusing. So, why do you feel like I was defending myself there?

I think also that at a time when we may be facing a looming constitutional crisis the outcome of which is unclear, and unclear precisely because Trump has widespread and fanatically ginned up support and a supine house and senate, who want to hold on to power, the issue isn't so much how to heal the divide but what to do as it blows up in our faces. You may be talking peace at a time for war. You believe the institutions will hold, others are not so sure. They also may hold but only after a massive disaster.

We are in a time of action, but this notion that we are in a time of war is absurd. The reason Trump is doing the harm he is doing, is because the electorate that supported him is angry. The solution to our problems in the long run is do deal with that anger. That does not mean we do not have short run issues to also deal with.

The reason I believe our institutions will hold, is not only because of how they were built. Its also important that the people that make up those institutions are not happy with how things are going right now. Institutions are only as strong as the people that are contained within them. There are far too many that do not support Trump and what he is doing to not put up resistance. Does not mean we just sit by and watch either. Part of what makes up those systems are voters.

Now, this language of war nonsense, do you realize how much of a Righty you sound? The Right has gone extreme and your calling for the left to go extreme to meet them, because, you think its too late. What I think is more likely is that you are so angry at people that you want to punish them. You are consumed by that anger and are pointing those feelings at people that you feel are the cause of it. The sad part is that you are not entirely incorrect. The problem is you want to do damage to those people instead of fixing the problem. You want vengeance instead of progress.

Trump is bad.
Trump is the product of the Right.
The Right has gone extreme.
The Right is consumed by their anger and fear.

Can you also see the problems the Left have?
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
I made pasta and meatballs, and my family loved them.

I think at times that's the most important thing.

Bow tie pasta
Alfredo sauce
Italian sausage sliced
Chicken breast cubed
1 yellow bell pepper
1 red bell pepper
1 cup of sun dried tomatoes
1/2 steamed peas

You can get canned Alfredo sauce and add seasoning, but homemade is the best if you have the time.

Cook sausage and chicken in different pans.
saute peppers and sun dried tomatoes.
Boil pasta and mix in everything after pasta is done.

Its actually a very quick meal and is amazingly good. I usually do some croissants drizzled with honey and a salad. There is also lots of color in the pasta so it presents very well.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
I have to make my blacken chicken alfredo before my son returns to college.

Yeah this appears to be a diversion and it is in a way. We're talking serious things on a large level and at times I have to step back and consider what really matters in my own personal cosmos. Maybe that's what we all need to do in some way to keep a clearer perspective on why things matter.
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
Yeah this appears to be a diversion and it is in a way. We're talking serious things on a large level and at times I have to step back and consider what really matters in my own personal cosmos.

I suggest you have it backwards. What are considered serious things at a large level are in fact distractions.
 

Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,777
2,331
136
Trump's base is angry, check. They are mostly angry over imaginary bullshit; there's no way to deal with it other than calling them out for believing in bullshit.

They have lost their jobs, I get it. There isn't an easy *truthful* answer for them to be had in many cases, other than: "move to an area that has jobs, and learn a new skill." There are jobs in this country, but not of the type and in the area where many of these people live. Easier said than done to just pick up and go for an older worker, and/or one that is taking care of an aging relative, and/or has joint custody of their kids and needs to stay within an area etc etc. Simply put, Trump sold them a simplistic message of hopeful horseshit that had no basis in reality. He ignored automation being the main cause of job loss, and instead painted illegals as the cause, for instance. Worse, beyond the "trust me, it'll be great" lack of detail about "how, exactly", he pretty obviously had no intention of actually trying to make this happen. He needed their votes and got them, they are a patch of dirt in his rearview now. And they still love him.
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
Trump's base is angry, check. They are mostly angry over imaginary bullshit; there's no way to deal with it other than calling them out for believing in bullshit.

Most people in today’s America are angry. Regardless of their political beliefs or lack thereof. Regardless of socio economic status. I see it all the time. Heck just look at this forum as a tiny example. The vile one etc are not the root problem. Merely the symptoms
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
Most people in today’s America are angry. Regardless of their political beliefs or lack thereof. Regardless of socio economic status. I see it all the time. Heck just look at this forum as a tiny example. The vile one etc are not the root problem. Merely the symptoms

But he is a symptom that is aggravating the problem. The fever is not the illness, but the fever can kill you if not treated.
 

Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,777
2,331
136
Most people in today’s America are angry. Regardless of their political beliefs or lack thereof. Regardless of socio economic status. I see it all the time. Heck just look at this forum as a tiny example. The vile one etc are not the root problem. Merely the symptoms

There's a difference in being angry over actual words and actions, and being whipped up into a frenzy over issues that don't even get an honest discussion--Illegal immigration a case in point. We have large numbers of people terrified and furious that Mexican rapist gang members are pouring into this country. For the "other side", we have large numbers of people terrified and furious that the President has called for the jailing of political opponents and the silencing of unfriendly press. There's a difference.

I do agree that Trump is just the symptom. The disease is true "fake news" and the unwillingness to seek objective reality. People will always disagree over facts, but when the actual "facts" differ there can't be any real discussion. Orwell knew this, he saw it while covering the Spanish Civil War (news stories about imaginary heroes of imaginary battles made their way all the way back to English News)...it scared him enough to write about it.
 

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,446
106
I have to make my blacken chicken alfredo before my son returns to college.

Yeah this appears to be a diversion and it is in a way. We're talking serious things on a large level and at times I have to step back and consider what really matters in my own personal cosmos. Maybe that's what we all need to do in some way to keep a clearer perspective on why things matter.
So glad you said this!

I'm so excited right now that my husband (with as much help from me as I can manage) is building a Garden Arbor with Bench for me! Just the pergola top and back lattice panel left to do. It looks amazing! We did it with no plans or instructions. It's been quite tedious with all the notching out for the lattice panels but worth it! We're not wood workers, it's just a hobby. Would be done already if weather weren't being a bitch every evening!
 

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,446
106
There's a difference in being angry over actual words and actions, and being whipped up into a frenzy over issues that don't even get an honest discussion--Illegal immigration a case in point. We have large numbers of people terrified and furious that Mexican rapist gang members are pouring into this country. For the "other side", we have large numbers of people terrified and furious that the President has called for the jailing of political opponents and the silencing of unfriendly press. There's a difference.

I do agree that Trump is just the symptom. The disease is true "fake news" and the unwillingness to seek objective reality. People will always disagree over facts, but when the actual "facts" differ there can't be any real discussion. Orwell knew this, he saw it while covering the Spanish Civil War (news stories about imaginary heroes of imaginary battles made their way all the way back to English News)...it scared him enough to write about it.
Yes, we're witnessing mass mentality and by its very nature mass mentality is very dangerous.
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
I do agree that Trump is just the symptom. The disease is true "fake news" and the unwillingness to seek objective reality.

A lot of what we perceive as objective reality is an illusion.

The modern society especially the American one, desperately tries to grasp and cling to pleasure. Being disconnected from itself and isolated, it almost has no other choice. But it finds that pleasure is fleeting. Hence the anger
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,685
6,195
126
realibrad: You are using hyperbolic language that is misleading. I did not attack Jhhnn. He also made no claim of me being right or wrong. The last interaction we had before this, and the time before that were situations where his input did not seem to be connected to reality. He seemed to be agreeing with things I had said in this thread, so why you think I felt attacked, or thought I was defending my position is at best confusing. So, why do you feel like I was defending myself there?

M: Misleading or not something you agree with? Maybe you don't know what an attack is. Did not seem connected in reality in your view of reality? I see you defending yourself by believing in your own story. You create a your own interpretation of reality that I see differently than you do.

r: We are in a time of action, but this notion that we are in a time of war is absurd. The reason Trump is doing the harm he is doing, is because the electorate that supported him is angry. The solution to our problems in the long run is do deal with that anger. That does not mean we do not have short run issues to also deal with.

M: When angry people pose an immediate threat to me it’s war. You are viewing the situation from La La land.

r: The reason I believe our institutions will hold, is not only because of how they were built. Its also important that the people that make up those institutions are not happy with how things are going right now. Institutions are only as strong as the people that are contained within them. There are far too many that do not support Trump and what he is doing to not put up resistance. Does not mean we just sit by and watch either. Part of what makes up those systems are voters.

M: What you believe is fine by me. I do find, however the above to be very generalized and somewhat incoherent. That our institutions are strong because of how they are built tells me basically nothing. What about their structure is it to which you refer? Some people are unhappy, but will it be enough. How will that unhappiness be expressed? Will it have to be war? I find the people who make up our system to be in the grips of a mass right wing explosion of fear which expresses itself as hate and generates the same thing on the left. If there will be resistance and there will be, why do you not call that war? You attribute free will to machines that I do not. Fear and demonizing of others creates that very reaction. Hate will be returned by hate. My father, who seems to be a bit more self reflective than your Mom was, used to say he was 200% American because he hated everybody. Perhaps his tremendous sense of wit helped me see with more frankness who I am. Hate at the extremes is a real and definite problem but you always make the mistake that you are free of it, in my opinion, as if the problem was out there and you are just an observer.

r: Now, this language of war nonsense, do you realize how much of a Righty you sound? The Right has gone extreme and your calling for the left to go extreme to meet them, because, you think its too late. What I think is more likely is that you are so angry at people that you want to punish them. You are consumed by that anger and are pointing those feelings at people that you feel are the cause of it. The sad part is that you are not entirely incorrect. The problem is you want to do damage to those people instead of fixing the problem. You want vengeance instead of progress.

M: The point I have been making to you for a long long time now is that you are caught in a blindness trap created by the paradox of opposites that arise when you approach reality:

I know that I sound like the right because I see the right in me, that I am filled with hate. You, however, are in a state of denial. You have no idea at all, according to what you say, that you hate yourself and the fear that would create in your consciousness if you were to feel it. So you see it out there in the other. It's out there that you have to cure the problem, while hoping never having to face the pain of self-realization to discover yourself to be just like that other. We create the world and self hate, contempt for evil, creates the world of ego. It is the denial of this inner reality that makes you unreal in my opinion. Have trouble understanding this, of course you do. I had to pay everything I owned in the way of sacred cows to understand get an insight into the ego and a lot of effort and help to begin to feel what I really feel. So the bottom line is that I know far better than you do how consumed I am by hatred and you have no idea how consumed you are and the result of that is that because I am more aware than you are I am less of a machine. You imagine my intent is to make you feel bad, I am saying I know you do feel bad and you wouldn't feel that bad if you has the self awareness I have. Now you may think this is all about some contest about me needing to tell you how superior I am, how much deeper my self awareness runs, some ego trip or another and that, in my opinion is because you are the one on the ego trip. I am a nobody and I know you would be better off if you could see what I see. All of your dreams of a beautiful loving world, your hopes for humanity, your desire to see people not suffer, the reality of the good, all of that can't be taken when you lose your personal definitions of what is sacred, They just are and you need to do nothing, go nowhere, fix anything, become anything to create that reality. You are standing right in the middle of heaven and don't see it. It is there the war ends. Only you can prevent forest fires, says Smokey the Bear.

Trump is bad.
Trump is the product of the Right.
The Right has gone extreme.
The Right is consumed by their anger and fear.

Can you also see the problems the Left have?

I am not arguing the superiority of the left or the right or anything on that plane. The left and the right blame each other and you blame both. I say the problem is that I will not feel my hate because it arises out of my have for me. There is only one enemy and he is me. You are at war with hate and I see it as my friend because the deeper I feel it as directed at myself the less I need to imagine the other as my real enemy. Evil is good and down is up. Truth always involves the resolution of opposites when seen from a different angle.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
A lot of what we perceive as objective reality is an illusion.

The modern society especially the American one, desperately tries to grasp and cling to pleasure. Being disconnected from itself and isolated, it almost has no other choice. But it finds that pleasure is fleeting. Hence the anger

Never deviate from the template. Negative, negative, negative, America is hell, negative negative, negative, America is hell, negative, negative, negative.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,685
6,195
126
A lot of what we perceive as objective reality is an illusion.

The modern society especially the American one, desperately tries to grasp and cling to pleasure. Being disconnected from itself and isolated, it almost has no other choice. But it finds that pleasure is fleeting. Hence the anger
You can wire a monkey with a button to push to stimulate the pleasure centers in his brain and he will die failing to eat. Somewhere along the line a thinking person in such a situation would likely experience some sense of depression, especially if the button were temporarily out of reach. God, though, I do need a new car.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,685
6,195
126
Never deviate from the template. Negative, negative, negative, America is hell, negative negative, negative, America is hell, negative, negative, negative.
That's not the half of it. Imagine if truth were such that it brought you down. We'd be living in the nightmare of a world full of deniers.
 

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,446
106
Never deviate from the template. Negative, negative, negative, America is hell, negative negative, negative, America is hell, negative, negative, negative.
You forgot... life is hell, embrace completely all negativity it's your natural state.
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
You forgot... life is hell,

You miss the point (again). Let me quote C.S. Lewis

There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, “Thy will be done,” and those to whom God says, in the end, “Thy will be done.” All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. Those who knock it is opened.
 
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