Trump deliberately sabotaging NAFTA or negotiating tactic?

[MomentsofSanity]

During NAFTA talks the last two days the Trump admin has introduced requirements completely unpalatable to Canada and Mexico.

Yesterday they demanded a 5 year sunset clause which gives no company involved any certainty if all countries don't agree in five years to renew.

Today they introduced a requirement that every car contain 50% U.S made parts to avoid tariffs. Currently there is no requirement.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...a-slams-demand-for-50-us-content-in-cars.html

 

[sdifox]

Tactic? The guy has a torch.

 

[sandorski]

Ya, those are shit requests. May as well declare Canada/Mexico as US territories and be done with this farcical set of demands. Canada and the EU just entered into a Free Trade agreement a few weeks ago. It is my hope that our reliance on US trade decreases to the point where NAFTA existing no longer matters or at least isn't terribly disruptive to the economy.

 

[Jaskalas]

One word. Pigeon.
It does not matter what the subject is, Trump will knock over all the pieces, !@#$ on the board, and strut around declaring victory.

 

[K1052]

Seems obvious that the intent is to blow up NAFTA but make Mexico or Canada do it by having them walk out.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Was just reading on the CBC that roughly 9 million American jobs are tied to NAFTA.

"Conservative foreign affairs critic Erin O'Toole said that saving NAFTA is in the U.S.'s national interest — with nine million jobs in that country depending on the trade pact — but he remains concerned."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jerry-dias-otoole-moore-nafta-1.4352313

 

[Chocu1a]

sorry, replied to wrong thread.

 

[Fenixgoon]

One word. Pigeon.
It does not matter what the subject is, Trump will knock over all the pieces, !@#$ on the board, and strut around declaring victory.

that is scarily accurate

 

[K1052]

Mexico and Canada reject US demands:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/17/can...offer-to-keep-negotiations-going-sources.html

Top trade negotiators from Canada and Mexico will meet Tuesday with the U.S. trade representative, Robert Lighthizer, and firmly reject the U.S. proposals floated in the current round of NAFTA negotiations, according to two people briefed on the countries' positioning.

Canada and Mexico will not walk away from the negotiating table, despite an outright rejection of the U.S. protectionist demands, these people said.

The move leaves the ball in the U.S. court.

Mexico in particular seems to be coming around to the idea that NAFA will collapse no matter what and is starting to go "meh" as the range of what's politically possible for them decreases as their presidential election approaches.

 

[Grooveriding]

Mexico and Canada reject US demands:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/17/can...offer-to-keep-negotiations-going-sources.html



Mexico in particular seems to be coming around to the idea that NAFA will collapse no matter what and is starting to go "meh" as the range of what's politically possible for them decreases as their presidential election approaches.

Right now the expectation is a new deal will be forged between Canada, Mexico and the UK. There may possible be some EU involvement as well.

 

[K1052]

Right now the expectation is a new deal will be forged between Canada, Mexico and the UK. There may possible be some EU involvement as well.

Canada has a new free trade deal with the EU which was recently agreed to. Mexico's free trade deal with the EU is in progress and should wrap by the end of year. What in the hell the UK is going to do with itself remains to be seen.

Trump's belligerent zero-sum negotiating style is not, thus far, proving fruitful.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Canada has a new free trade deal with the EU which was recently agreed to. Mexico's free trade deal with the EU is in progress and should wrap by the end of year. What in the hell the UK is going to do with itself remains to be seen.

Trump's belligerent zero-sum negotiating style is not thus far proving fruitful.

Reports have also surfaced that the negotiators tasked with presenting the administrations demands have been rather uncomfortable with doing so. Seems they know they are absolute non-starters.

http://thehill.com/policy/internati...fta-negotiators-dont-like-what-they-are-doing

 

[woolfe9998]

Killing NAFTA will do nothing but harm the economy in the short to middle term. If Trump wants to play around with that, let him. A bad economy is just about the only thing that would almost guaranty a Trump loss in 2020.

 

[K1052]

Reports have also surfaced that the negotiators tasked with presenting the administrations demands have been rather uncomfortable with doing so. Seems they know they are absolute non-starters.

http://thehill.com/policy/internati...fta-negotiators-dont-like-what-they-are-doing

Yes, I've read reports along the same lines that indicate US negotiators know they're asking for crazy stuff but have to anyway to please you know who.

 

[J.Wilkins]

Right now the expectation is a new deal will be forged between Canada, Mexico and the UK. There may possible be some EU involvement as well.

As we are still part of the EU we might get some scraps but once we're out, we'll be out of that deal or any deal we could possibly hope to form with either the EU or Canada. The tariffs alone will kill it and the morons thought that that was what would ensure prosperity.

Hard as fuck to collect on tariff tax when no one wants to trade with you.

 

[vi edit]

Everything DJT touches he kind of screws up with hubris. I got my candidates right....right?

 

[Grooveriding]

As we are still part of the EU we might get some scraps but once we're out, we'll be out of that deal or any deal we could possibly hope to form with either the EU or Canada. The tariffs alone will kill it and the morons thought that that was what would ensure prosperity.

Hard as fuck to collect on tariff tax when no one wants to trade with you.

I need to dig up the article. But the idea was floated as something for the UK after Brexit. Trade and economics is something I have next to know context for. I know NAFTA dying is going to hurt all three countries to different extents. But everyone but the US is trying to salvage something from this and work together, leaving the US to rally around their moron in chief and join him in a spiral down the bowl.

 

[K1052]

Canada's Minister of Foreign Affairs is apparently lacing into the US demands at the joint US/MEX/CAN press conference following the end of this round.

Looking pretty fucked. They pushed back the next round of talks to November because of the growing chasm between MEX/CAN and US positions.

 

[fskimospy]

During NAFTA talks the last two days the Trump admin has introduced requirements completely unpalatable to Canada and Mexico.

Yesterday they demanded a 5 year sunset clause which gives no company involved any certainty if all countries don't agree in five years to renew.

Today they introduced a requirement that every car contain 50% U.S made parts to avoid tariffs. Currently there is no requirement.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...a-slams-demand-for-50-us-content-in-cars.html

Can we dispense with the 'Trump is playing 11 dimensional chess' idea until at least the time he comes out on top in literally one single solitary intra/intergovernmental negotiation?

He's already tried this same tactic about five times now and has failed every time. It seems to be the only one he knows.

 

[Snarf Snarf]

He clearly only has one mode of operation, intimidation. If he can't bully you into submission he moves on to smearing you publicly until his echo chamber massages his ego to his satisfaction. Rinse and repeat for every issue, this is going to be a long 3 years

 

[Thebobo]

This just in!

 

[K1052]

Trudeau, Trump governments slam each other publicly for first time as NAFTA talks go off rails

In the clearest public indication that talks over the North American Free Trade Agreement are going poorly, Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland blasted the U.S. for the first time on Tuesday while U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer blasted Canada and Mexico.

They were standing beside each other at an awkward joint appearance in Washington to mark the end of the fourth round of negotiations over the U.S.-initiated effort to revamp the 23-year-old continental free trade pact.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and members of his government, including Freeland, had until Tuesday maintained a chipper public tone about the talks even as the mood at the bargaining table darkened.

No longer. Freeland denounced the U.S. for “an approach that seeks to undermine NAFTA rather than modernize it,” warning that the “unconventional” proposals from President Donald Trump’s administration would “turn back the clock” and put tens of thousands of jobs at risk.

Lighthizer, meanwhile, criticized both Canada and Mexico for what he called a “resistance to change,” saying he was “surprised and disappointed” they were obviously acting to defend the “unfair advantage” possessed by Canadian and Mexican companies.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...r-first-time-as-nafta-talks-go-off-rails.html

Making such good deals....beautiful deals.

 

[brycejones]

Mexico and Canada reject US demands:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/17/can...offer-to-keep-negotiations-going-sources.html



Mexico in particular seems to be coming around to the idea that NAFA will collapse no matter what and is starting to go "meh" as the range of what's politically possible for them decreases as their presidential election approaches.

Trump is all for a new deal, but just like the Democrats the other countries just won't support his agenda so it is all their fault. He is a great negotiator, so good in fact that no one will negotiate with him.

/s for the slow witted

 

[fskimospy]

Trump is all for a new deal, but just like the Democrats the other countries just won't support his agenda so it is all their fault. He is a great negotiator, so good in fact that no one will negotiate with him.

/s for the slow witted

Also since Trump seems to be trying to unilaterally rip up trade deals left and right countries who aren't stupid are now going to be very circumspect about entering into them with us to begin with.

I mean what's to stop the next president from deciding he doesn't like New NAFTA and deciding to rip that up all over again? This is what stupid people like Trump don't understand. In the world of business there's always some new mark who is either desperate enough or ignorant enough that you can fool them into buying your shit. That's much less true in international relations.

 

[brycejones]

Also since Trump seems to be trying to unilaterally rip up trade deals left and right countries who aren't stupid are now going to be very circumspect about entering into them with us to begin with.

I mean what's to stop the next president from deciding he doesn't like New NAFTA and deciding to rip that up all over again? This is what stupid people like Trump don't understand. In the world of business there's always some new mark who is either desperate enough or ignorant enough that you can fool them into buying your shit. That's much less true in international relations.

Trump's foreign 'policy' has been to basically repudiate what any previous administrations have agreed to. This is goi g to have horrific consequences since it destroys one of the basic tenets of American foreign policy since WW2 which is that foreign powers have been able to trust that new administrations would continue to honor agreements made by previous administrations. This is the foundation on which American power is built. Take it away and our influence around the world will decline dramatically and quickly.