Trump finally admits what we all knew..." I’m a nationalist, okay?"

[Vic]

Well duh, America first has been his goal since before he was elected. Being for America does not mean being anti-minority.

The "America First" organization has been around for a long time, but you already knew that, right?

 

[SlowSpyder]

Yeh, a sleazy multinational real estate developer who pays no taxes & tears down the rule of law & the institutions of govt of a free people is a real fucking patriot, I'm sure.

And there we go. This thread is really a very thinly veiled weak sauce attempt to attack Trump for the sport of doing so and nothing more.

I bet Trump has contributed orders of magnitude more than you to America's economy. How many jobs have you created?

Tears down rule of law? What are you smoking, you're on some bad stuff bud.

 

[trenchfoot]

There's a difference between simply running your country (which Trump doesn't really do a good job of as it is) and being a nationalist. Nationalists often emphasize mindless patriotism and often see international politics as a zero sum game where you must hurt other countries to further your own interests.

I can see where many Trump influenced "nationalists" who have bought into the "us against them" narrative believe that there is no such thing as nations having mutually beneficial agreements among themselves whether for their security or trade. It's why Trump can incredulously attack our own allies and the treaties that bind us together for mutual advantage over our perceived enemies and still have the support he needs to do it.

In true Trumpian dogma mindset, these folks have been convinced that America must be the only winners in the Trump's personal game of global supremacy.

 

[SlowSpyder]

The "America First" organization has been around for a long time, but you already knew that, right?

Like I said, racists will make this about race. You're a racist.

 

[hal2kilo]

I’m not following what is bad about this? I’d hope our president puts the US before other countries. He’s POTUS after all is he not?

Nothing better than to return to the days of "The Ugly American" (its a book).

 

[Blackjack200]

He's a nationalist. He's white. He also supports some socialist policies.

He's a white national socialist.


What of it?

Examples?

 

[sactoking]

"Nationalist" has a well accepted meaning in American parlance, especially in the context of politics.

What I'm seeing is equivalent to someone saying they're "racist" because they like to watch the track events during the Olympics.

 

[brycejones]

Examples?

Taking money from society and giving it to rich people is socialist right?

 

[Vic]

I’m not following what is bad about this? I’d hope our president puts the US before other countries. He’s POTUS after all is he not?

Nationalism isn't just about putting one's own country first. That would be patriotism.
Nationalism is the ideology that the elevation of one's own country or culture justifies the suppression, and even subjugation, of other countries and cultures. Which invariably leads to conflict, of course, as other countries and cultures might not agree to being suppressed and subjugated. Pesky thing, that.
There's also the issue that nationalist ideology requires that government treat people unequally based upon whatever nationalist prejudice is currently popular, which runs contrary to the constitutional ideals our country was founded upon.
But you don't see anything bad about that, right?

 

[Vic]

Like I said, racists will make this about race. You're a racist.

"I'm rubberband and you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you."

Can you show me where I even brought up race, much less made it about race? You can't, because you did both. So..

 

[Blackjack200]

Taking money from society and giving it to rich people is socialist right?

Reverse Robin Hood!

 

[SlowSpyder]

You do know that elevating the world helps the US, right? That stronger alliances and supporting the less fortunate means less political tension and fewer conflicts over resources? And hey, call me crazy, but there's this radical concept that humanity is in the same boat, and we stand a much better chance of advancing as a species if we work together instead of screwing each other over, as you want us to do.

Reread what I said. "Elevating the world at America's expense." Of course ideally we want everyone doing well and flourishing, but that shouldn't happen at our expense. Wanting trade deals that are fair or benefit us, wanting jobs in America, is not the same as being in the KKK, as some of you are trying to make it.

 

[SlowSpyder]

"I'm rubberband and you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you."

Can you show me where I even brought up race, much less made it about race? You can't, because you did both. So..

You associated a racist group to Trump because he said "America first". You trolling today or did you have a stroke?

 

[Jhhnn]

And there we go. This thread is really a very thinly veiled weak sauce attempt to attack Trump for the sport of doing so and nothing more.

I bet Trump has contributed ordered of magnitude more than you to America's economy. How many jobs have you created?

Tears down rule of law? What are you smoking, you're on some bad stuff bud.

I'll bet Trump has stolen more from the Treasury in tax scams than either of us makes in a lifetime.

He's been tearing down the FBI, the IC, the State Dept, the EPA & financial regulation from the beginning.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I wasn't a Trump guy either, but then I see how the liberals think today. Threads like this. How dare the POTUS want the nation he is elected to lead do well. There is nothing wrong with this, I honestly am baffled that this is an issue to you.

That oversimplifies what Trump says and what he means, and obscures it.

His entire life has been focused on zero-sum gamesmanship. He and his Base view world politics as if it were an NFL game. That's why his supporters have jettisoned the idea of compromise when election results only offer a few points difference between winners and losers, and they lost the popular vote -- a fact that they keep trying to sweep under the carpet with outright lies.

The future of the human race hinges on whether we revert to a tribalist mentality, thus encouraging other countries to do the same -- or we engage in collective solutions for collective problems like climate change. Nationalism will pull us toward war, and war will further deplete the resources needed to save the world from itself. Add in all the racist memes with the racist component of the Base, and the difference between what is said and what is meant gets clearer. Trump and his Base see America as just a modern Roman Empire that must be promoted -- no less defended -- at all costs in "Zero-Sum Mode."

Maybe it deserves a Malthusian perspective to put it into focus. Trump and his Base only care if Americans have a better place at the table. They'd rather not face the problem and solution of providing a place for everyone at the table. And this is not the road to progress. It's only a repetition of conflict known all too well in human history.

 

[Vic]

Reread what I said. "Elevating the world at America's expense." Of course ideally we want everyone doing well and flourishing, but that shouldn't happen at our expense. Wanting trade deals that are fair or benefit us, wanting jobs in America, is not the same as being in the KKK, as some of you are trying to make it.

If the world has been elevated at America's expense, as you keep saying, then why is America still far and away the greatest and most powerful country on earth?
As for these bad trade deals, was it really so bad that goods that were once out of reach for most Americans are now so cheap that almost every American can afford them?
And with unemployment below 5%, what lost jobs are really the problem here?

 

[Vic]

You associated a racist group to Trump because he said "America first". You trolling today or did you have a stroke?

America First is the name of a particular organization. Are you denying that?

 

[Vic]

I'll bet Trump has stolen more from the Treasury in tax scams than either of us makes in a lifetime.

He's been tearing down the FBI, the IC, the State Dept, the EPA & financial regulation from the beginning.

Supposedly to cut government spending, and yet overall government spending continues to increase dramatically. Hmm...

 

[Vic]

Reverse Robin Hood!

Which is still taking from some to give to others.

 

[thilanliyan]

How dare the POTUS want the nation he is elected to lead do well. There is nothing wrong with this, I honestly am baffled that this is an issue to you.

That is what he SAYS, but is it what he DOES?
As others have mentioned he is NOT "America First" when it comes to his own businesses for example, so what makes you think he is for the country?
He can promise everyone unicorns but if he doesn't actually follow through, then you've just been duped.

 

[SlowSpyder]

That oversimplifies what Trump says and what he means, and obscures it.

His entire life has been focused on zero-sum gamesmanship. He and his Base view world politics as if it were an NFL game. That's why his supporters have jettisoned the idea of compromise when election results only offer a few points difference between winners and losers, and they lost the popular vote -- a fact that they keep trying to sweep under the carpet with outright lies.

The future of the human race hinges on whether we revert to a tribalist mentality, thus encouraging other countries to do the same -- or we engage in collective solutions for collective problems like climate change. Nationalism will pull us toward war, and war will further deplete the resources needed to save the world from itself. Add in all the racist memes with the racist component of the Base, and the difference between what is said and what is meant gets clearer. Trump and his Base see America as just a modern Roman Empire that must be promoted -- no less defended -- at all costs in "Zero-Sum Mode."

Maybe it deserves a Malthusian perspective to put it into focus. Trump and his Base only care if Americans have a better place at the table. They'd rather not face the problem and solution of providing a place for everyone at the table. And this is not the road to progress. It's only a repetition of conflict known all too well in human history.

You need to stop watching The Young Turks. There is nothing wrong with wishing the country to do well. I want the world to do well, but I don't feel we need to be taken advantage of for that to happen. I believe that's Trump's stance as well and I see nothing wrong with it.

 

[SlowSpyder]

That is what he SAYS, but is it what he DOES?
As others have mentioned he is NOT "America First" when it comes to his own businesses for example, so what makes you think he is for the country?
He can promise everyone unicorns but if he doesn't actually follow through, then you've just been duped.

I'd say so far the things he's done, at least while in office, have been to that direction, yes.

 

[Blackjack200]

Which is still taking from some to give to others.

So your argument is that the president using the government to enrich himself and his friends is an example of... socialism?

 

[Jhhnn]

You need to stop watching The Young Turks. There is nothing wrong with wishing the country to do well. I want the world to do well, but I don't feel we need to be taken advantage of for that to happen. I believe that's Trump's stance as well and I see nothing wrong with it.

Nationalism & wishing the country to do well aren't even in the same rhetorical universe.

 

[Commodus]

Reread what I said. "Elevating the world at America's expense." Of course ideally we want everyone doing well and flourishing, but that shouldn't happen at our expense. Wanting trade deals that are fair or benefit us, wanting jobs in America, is not the same as being in the KKK, as some of you are trying to make it.

I understood exactly what you said. The problem is that Trump has fooled you into thinking that "at America's expense" means that previous deals were at the US' expense, and that fair deals mean you have to antagonize your closest allies. Creating jobs in the US doesn't mean screwing over your neighbors.

Nationalism doesn't necessarily involve racism, but it's always bad. Nationalism involves meaningless jingoism (like, say, "make America great again"). It means slavish, unquestioning patriotism that sees helpful criticism as betrayal. It means self-centeredness to the detriment of humanity at large. And nationalism has been at the heart of the world's largest wars and worst atrocities.