Trump has pardoned Joe Arpaio

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Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,048
4,807
136
Trump will forever be known as the fake President Of The United States, so there is that context.
I cant get my head around the fact that 2/3rds of white male talent voted for this guy? Really? Dam son, thats some entitled bitches right there. Hell hath no fury like a white man scorned.
Perhaps the ladies will start calling him gold finger or the man with the wandering eye especially when he get around other women. Geez you'd think that with as hot as Melania is he'd be satisfied at home but nooo.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,721
6,201
126
Dude, that is one long... wtf is it again? .
I think it is universally understood that you dont fight your enemy cause you hate him you fight him because you understand him.
What you are seeing with the "hate" is just mobilising/rallying of the lesser ranks. So, if reading you correctly you want to educate the masses on psych101 and introspection wich will lead to one big circle of understanding and peace. Yeah. Acid much? .
I think you made the assumption that you already understand, that a truth that differs from your conditioning you don't understand must be 'acid''. This kind of reaction to understanding that seeing what is dark for you is covered in my sig under a similar term, gibberish. It is also referred iin the Zen tradition as having a full teacup. A seeker asks for clarification if he or she doesn't understand. The truth is deeply hidden, in your case by the assumption you already know it.

Now that this is no longer expressed in generalizations but personally, we'll see how well you do fighting me with understanding.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,721
6,201
126
Because the reactions of batshit crazy liberals is just amazing to watch. I could cancel cable tv and just watch meltdown videos on youtube. Do you all ever get tired of being manipulated hypocritical little tards? I can get the anger you may be feeling had you expressed 1/1000th of your whininess while obama was president. Sure maybe this pardon was not the best thing to do at this time.... but where was your anger when obama pardoned chelsea manning and his other 1900+ communations and pardon... some being somewhat suspect?
Wouldn't the validity of moral outrage be in proportion, either to the absurdity of ones moray values, or in proportion to how outrageous something actually is. Is there a way that you accurately differentiate between these two kinds of outrage r were you actually so certain of your own viewpoint the possibility of a distinction never entered your mind. What if you have been programmed by moral values that objectively suck. You could actually believe in evil.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,551
27,856
136
How would you define objective morality in order to determine which morals objectively suck?
 

Aegeon

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2004
1,809
125
106
but where was your anger when obama pardoned chelsea manning and his other 1900+ communations and pardon... some being somewhat suspect?
Because Obama indisputably did not pardon Chelsea Manning for starters?

He commuted the sentence, but only after Manning served 7 years in jail, so there still certainly is a deterrent effect associated with the punishment for his actions. (I still did not personally approve of the decision by the way, but its not remotely the same thing as Trump's action.)

While you could cite a specific decision by Obama you found specifically objectionable so we could talk about it, in general they were commutations which merely reduced sentences rather than pure pardons, especially of the sort which actually prevented someone from serving any jail time. (Sometimes Presidents also agree to issue pardons for someone who previously served their time and had behaved as a good citizen to allow the act to no longer be effectively on their record.)

Obama's pardons to my knowledge all went properly through the Justice Department (unlike Trump) and were mostly part a public policy objective of reducing the sentences of people with drug crimes on the basis sentences of people in this area had been excessive and left an unnecessary number in prison for excessive terms in the past.

Trump took the virtually unprecedented move of a pardon before the individual had been sentenced. Furthermore his case is the only one I am aware of where such a preemptive pardon was combined with a public statement which effectively implied the individual being pardoned did nothing wrong. (At least one of the exceptions for effective pardons was also not unconditional with a couple of relevant exceptions.)

Crucially Trump's was the only one which was for the individual in question specifically violating people's constitutional rights. This really threatens the basic system of checks and balances we have in the US and the ability of Federal Courts to stop governmental official misconduct. If you don't think this was a big deal, how would you feel if a hypothetical future Democratic President uses the Trump precedent and lets it be publicly known if law enforcement officials want to ignore Federal Judges and go around systematically seizing random citizens guns he would immediately pardon any of them if they get charged with contempt of court?

Trump just crossed an extremely dangerous line we do not want Presidents of the United States crossing.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,345
15,156
136
Because Obama indisputably did not pardon Chelsea Manning for starters?

He commuted the sentence, but only after Manning served 7 years in jail, so there still certainly is a deterrent effect associated with the punishment for his actions. (I still did not personally approve of the decision by the way, but its not remotely the same thing as Trump's action.)

While you could cite a specific decision by Obama you found specifically objectionable so we could talk about it, in general they were commutations which merely reduced sentences rather than pure pardons, especially of the sort which actually prevented someone from serving any jail time. (Sometimes Presidents also agree to issue pardons for someone who previously served their time and had behaved as a good citizen to allow the act to no longer be effectively on their record.)

Obama's pardon to my knowledge all went properly through the Justice Department (unlike Trump) and were mostly part a public policy objective of reducing the sentences of people with drug crimes on the basis sentences of people in this area had been excessive and left an unnecessary number in prison for excessive terms in the past.

Trump took the virtually unprecedented move of a pardon before the individual had been sentenced. Furthermore his case is the only one I am aware of where such a preemptive pardon was combined with a public statement which effectively implied the individual being pardoned did nothing wrong. (At least one of the exceptions for effective pardons was also not unconditional with a couple of relevant exceptions.)

Crucially Trump's was the only one which was for the individual in question specifically violating people's constitutional rights. This really threatens the basic system of checks and balances we have in the US and the ability of Federal Courts to stop governmental official misconduct. If you don't think this was a big deal, how would you feel if a hypothetical future Democratic President uses the Trump precedent and lets it be publicly known if law enforcement officials want to ignore Federal Judges and go around systematically seizing random citizens guns he would immediately pardon any of them if they get charged with contempt of court?

Trump just crossed an extremely dangerous line we do not want Presidents of the United States crossing.


Do we know if trump was even asked to pardon this guy or did he do it on his own?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,721
6,201
126
How would you define objective morality in order to determine which morals objectively suck?
To be morally objective means you do are aware that morality isn't a definition. Objective morality is what manifests when conditioning isn't present, when the mind is free of thought, when one is without internal or external division. It is pure being. Morality is love. These words talk about morality but none of them is morality itself anymore than looking up or knowing the definition of what love means creates the actual experience.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,429
11,758
136
oh look, a Nixon defender. This shit is awesome.

Well...technically, he's right. Nixon was not impeached OR convicted...he resigned before either could happen...then was pardoned by Ford.

Nixon did some things I liked...more than I hated...wanted to see him impeached, but was robbed of that. At least I got to see his former VP, Spiro Agnew go down in flames.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,298
8,211
136
Because the reactions of batshit crazy liberals is just amazing to watch. I could cancel cable tv and just watch meltdown videos on youtube. Do you all ever get tired of being manipulated hypocritical little tards? I can get the anger you may be feeling had you expressed 1/1000th of your whininess while obama was president. Sure maybe this pardon was not the best thing to do at this time.... but where was your anger when obama pardoned chelsea manning and his other 1900+ communations and pardon... some being somewhat suspect?

This is an attitude that conservatives seem to show quite frequently, and it does nothing for my opinion of them. The gist of it seems to be "rich white liberals have upset me, so I'm going to beat up poor black people - that'll show 'em". It's the reasoning of the family-annihilator.
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,048
4,807
136
The term "conservative" makes me want to puke when I consider that they are among the most morally reprehensible persons in our society. Conservative used to mean that a person had bible based values and demonstrated them through their behavior. Our modern society has devolved into a state where being conservative is nothing more than a religious backed title that embraces pretty much anything that furthers their own agendas irrespective of its moral or ethical implications.

We have extremism on both the left and right sides of the aisle where people's behavior is totally contrary to the BS they're pedaling. Too many people are loyal to a party rather than to their own personal ideas of how things should be and in doing so they've willingly adopted a set of confirmation biases to help them swallow it so they can be comfortable in their decision to embrace it.

As I interact with people I'm finding that folks who actually lean a little left of center by today's standards are the real conservatives. When it comes to abortion organized religion behaves like rabid dogs proving that they haven't even bothered to read God's word yet spew all manner of hatred and bigotry in his name. Jesus, God in the flesh, tells us many times that we don't begin as people until our birth into this world yet organized religion wants you to believe that its at conception which is a false doctrine. Just how many women have been persecuted by the church over this subject? This behavior is completely contrary to Jesus's teachings yet here we are.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,551
27,856
136
To be morally objective means you do are aware that morality isn't a definition. Objective morality is what manifests when conditioning isn't present, when the mind is free of thought, when one is without internal or external division. It is pure being. Morality is love. These words talk about morality but none of them is morality itself anymore than looking up or knowing the definition of what love means creates the actual experience.
Moonie, you can do better than preacher babble.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,721
6,201
126
Moonie, you can do better than preacher babble.
In anything there is only what you can carry away. I suspect that you asked me to define something you believe does not exist and when I explained the nature of the trap you had set, you responded that my words made no sense to you. My first sentence anticipated that. What you call preaching I call a hope for you to awaken. Self hate will resist that happening.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
I expected nothing less from this thread than the conservatives here to come carry water for their fellow racists, and it did not disappoint in the least.

There's good reason why Trump made a big deal out of this at his last rally. People like Sheriff Joe are symbolic of everything the GOP base and american conservatism stands for, which is why they're here to take a bullet protecting these symbols same as for jim crow statues and charlottesville nazis/klan.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
In anything there is only what you can carry away. I suspect that you asked me to define something you believe does not exist and when I explained the nature of the trap you had set, you responded that my words made no sense to you. My first sentence anticipated that. What you call preaching I call a hope for you to awaken. Self hate will resist that happening.

Just because your manic states contrasted so much with your depressive ones doesn't mean everyone is manic depressive.
 

J.Wilkins

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2017
2,681
640
91
To be morally objective means you do are aware that morality isn't a definition. Objective morality is what manifests when conditioning isn't present, when the mind is free of thought, when one is without internal or external division. It is pure being. Morality is love. These words talk about morality but none of them is morality itself anymore than looking up or knowing the definition of what love means creates the actual experience.

No, that is your subjective opinion on what morality is.
 

J.Wilkins

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2017
2,681
640
91
But guns are protected by the US Constitution. Had Arpaio merely gone around checking the legal status of everyone who carried guns, perhaps focusing on those who appeared to be druggies and known felons, and confiscating illegal firearms, that would have been just fine...ILLEGAL immigration is not a right. Law enforcement everywhere should be trying to eliminate (not kill, just capture and return) these illegal invaders.
It shouldn't be unconstitutional to stop some brown people (the most common type of illegal immigrant in the area) living near the border and question their status. If they're citizens or legal immigrants, (LEGAL immigrants are required to carry their green cards at all times, so that should be easy)

SO what you are saying is that the constitutional protections that other US citizens enjoy should not be extended to other US citizens only for the reason of the colour of their skin with no suspicion other than that they are too damn brown to be Americans?

That is exactly what you are saying here.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,721
6,201
126
No, that is your subjective opinion on what morality is.
I tried to explain that opinions on what morality is are opinions, not morality. My opinion is that morality can't be contained in a definition or a prescription because morality is love in action. There is no meaning in the idea that love is action other than if you want to know what morality is you have to love. There is no meaning in you have to love because there is no way that love can be commanded. Morality isn't the words that are spoken from a conscious state, it is the state itself. If you do not know the state, there is no way to define morality. I can only point.
 
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