Trump just ordered the gassing and shooting of peaceful protestors in Washington DC just so he could have an effing photo op in front of church

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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
Well, duh. That's the same with race. You realize black men are responsible for around half the homicides despite making up only about 6% of the population? From the 2.5:1 black male vs. white male death by cop ratio, adjust violent crime difference and low SES. That leaves little for racism to account for the numbers.
Dont you understand?? None of your absurd assumptions are relevant!
They will not explain nor will they bring back this murdered Black man!
 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
23,790
4,970
146
At least there is one person with character. James Miller Jr.,
'I wish you the best': US military adviser resigns after Trump's controversial photo-op at church
"a Department of Defense adviser resigned, effective immediately, from the military's science board
citing what he believed to be a violation of conduct from Defense Secretary Mark Esper. "


He called Esper out on his shit.
""You may not have been able to stop President Trump from directing this appalling use of force, but you
could have chosen to oppose it," Miller wrote in his resignation letter to Esper, which was obtained by The
Washington Post. "Instead, you visibly supported it." "
 
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NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,978
2,582
136
Well, duh. That's the same with race. You realize black men are responsible for around half the homicides despite making up only about 6% of the population? From the 2.5:1 black male vs. white male death by cop ratio, adjust violent crime difference and low SES. That leaves little for racism to account for the numbers.
First, Blacks make up 12.6% of the US population, not 6%. Second, are you confusing arrests with convictions? Because arrests is the only data that I can find that supports your statement above, which 100% demonstrates racism, not the opposite as you state. You also have to take a long hard look at the rate of wrongful murder convictions, which happens to blacks 50% of the time, vs only 36% of the time for whites (as of 2017): http://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Documents/Race_and_Wrongful_Convictions.pdf
 
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Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,522
759
146
First, Blacks make up 12.6% of the US population, not 6%.

Read again. Black males. Females don't contribute significantly to the percent.

Second, are you confusing arrests with convictions? Because arrests is the only data that I can find that supports your statement above, which 100% demonstrates racism, not the opposite as you state.

It's relatively easy to track with victim data.


And yes, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, black offenders committed 52 per cent of homicides recorded in the data between 1980 and 2008. Only 45 per cent of the offenders were white. Homicide is a broader category than “murder” but let’s not split hairs.

What about violent crime more generally? FBI arrest rates are one way into this. Over the last three years of data – 2011 to 2013 – 38.5 per cent of people arrested for murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault were black.

Clearly, these figures are problematic. We’re talking about arrests not convictions, and high black arrest rates could be taken as evidence that the police are racist.

But academics have noted that the proportion of black suspects arrested by the police tends to match closely the proportion of offenders identified as black by victims in the National Crime Victimization Survey.

This doesn’t support the idea that the police are unfairly discriminating against the black population when they make arrests.


If anything, black people are getting away with unsolved violent crimes.


You also have to take a long hard look at the rate of wrongful murder convictions, which happens to blacks 50% of the time, vs only 36% of the time for whites (as of 2017): http://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Documents/Race_and_Wrongful_Convictions.pdf

That wouldn't change anything. Wrongful convictions for murder would probably be like 2-5% (difference being even smaller), with the true criminal being the same race the vast majority of the time.

Edit: If your point was that wrongful conviction difference is a "racist" disparity, what say you about the gender disparities? It's obvious that it s a function of how much crime a group does. If a given group has more little shits, then they'll get saddled with worse generalizations. Ironically, the woke liberals do this with cops to a completely absurd degree.

 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,717
25,053
136
Read again. Black males. Females don't contribute significantly to the percent.



It's relatively easy to track with victim data.


And yes, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, black offenders committed 52 per cent of homicides recorded in the data between 1980 and 2008. Only 45 per cent of the offenders were white. Homicide is a broader category than “murder” but let’s not split hairs.

What about violent crime more generally? FBI arrest rates are one way into this. Over the last three years of data – 2011 to 2013 – 38.5 per cent of people arrested for murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault were black.

Clearly, these figures are problematic. We’re talking about arrests not convictions, and high black arrest rates could be taken as evidence that the police are racist.

But academics have noted that the proportion of black suspects arrested by the police tends to match closely the proportion of offenders identified as black by victims in the National Crime Victimization Survey.

This doesn’t support the idea that the police are unfairly discriminating against the black population when they make arrests.


If anything, black people are getting away with unsolved violent crimes.




That wouldn't change anything. Wrongful convictions for murder would probably be like 2-5% (difference being even smaller), with the true criminal being the same race the vast majority of the time.

Edit: If your point was that wrongful conviction difference is a "racist" disparity, what say you about the gender disparities? It's obvious that it s a function of how much crime a group does. If a given group has more little shits, then they'll get saddled with worse generalizations. Ironically, the woke liberals do this with cops to a completely absurd degree.

Cool story you all should start a thread on the subject. No one has alleged anyone assaulted by police in the OP was a criminal.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,003
18,350
146
I still get a kick out of Trump's obvious pandering to the religious nutters in our country and the way they swoon for him. How delusional do you need to be to think that Trump really cares about religion?
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
11,345
2,705
136
He said he's going to "activate the Attorney General, and activate him very strongly". WTF does that mean? Add water to him? Did he order a box of Acme Attorney General Activation Pills?
someone should photoshop trump onto the good ol' doc and Barr onto the monster
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
Wow, repeating your stupid argument. You think civil rights protestors should have just gone home when the white man's police force came. Rosa Parks should have gone and sat in the back of the bus when the police came, right? They had every right to be in that public space. The Church that Trump visited denounced him.

Speaking of stupid arguments, I like how people keep comparing the Washington DC protestors to great civil rights leaders Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King. It's almost like you completely forgot that the night before they were looting stores, vandalizing national monuments, and setting fire to a church next door to the White House.

Sure, not everyone in that group took part in that, but pretending that they weren't a security risk is naive at best.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,554
27,859
136
Speaking of stupid arguments, I like how people keep comparing the Washington DC protestors to great civil rights leaders Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King. It's almost like you completely forgot that the night before they were looting stores, vandalizing national monuments, and setting fire to a church next door to the White House.

Sure, not everyone in that group took part in that, but pretending that they weren't a security risk is naive at best.
Trump is a proven security risk; they didn’t gas him.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,717
25,053
136
Speaking of stupid arguments, I like how people keep comparing the Washington DC protestors to great civil rights leaders Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King. It's almost like you completely forgot that the night before they were looting stores, vandalizing national monuments, and setting fire to a church next door to the White House.

Sure, not everyone in that group took part in that, but pretending that they weren't a security risk is naive at best.
forest and trees you keep missing the forest.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,526
136
First, Blacks make up 12.6% of the US population, not 6%. Second, are you confusing arrests with convictions? Because arrests is the only data that I can find that supports your statement above, which 100% demonstrates racism, not the opposite as you state. You also have to take a long hard look at the rate of wrongful murder convictions, which happens to blacks 50% of the time, vs only 36% of the time for whites (as of 2017): http://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Documents/Race_and_Wrongful_Convictions.pdf
Anyone who thinks racism doesn’t play a part in disparate law enforcement numbers is either comically ignorant or is pushing an agenda. The easiest way to see this is through marijuana convictions. Studies show black people and white people smoke pot at roughly equal rates but black people are arrested marijuana possession at more than twice the rate white people are.

Same crime, wildly different enforcement.

 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,849
136
Speaking of stupid arguments, I like how people keep comparing the Washington DC protestors to great civil rights leaders Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King. It's almost like you completely forgot that the night before they were looting stores, vandalizing national monuments, and setting fire to a church next door to the White House.

Sure, not everyone in that group took part in that, but pretending that they weren't a security risk is naive at best.

The vast majority of protesters have been peaceful. I am continually amazed at how much of this country has just memory holed the 60s except for like the moon landing. There was incredible racial violence, killings, bombings, rampant police brutality, lynchings, etc.

Modern day white conservatives wrapping themselves in imagery of MLK to complain about current protests is particularly disturbing. Quite clearly they didn't listen to a word he said.
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,717
25,053
136
The vast majority of protesters have been peaceful. I am continually amazed at how much of this country has just memory holed the 60s except for like the moon landing. There was incredible racial violence, killings, bombings, rampant police brutality, lynchings, etc.

Modern day white conservatives wrapping themselves in imagery of MLK to complain about current protests is particularly disturbing. Quite clearly they didn't listen to a word he said.
Or remember events like the Selma to Montgomery marches including Bloody Sunday.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,526
136
The vast majority of protesters have been peaceful. I am continually amazed at how much of this country has just memory holed the 60s except for like the moon landing. There was incredible racial violence, killings, bombings, rampant police brutality, lynchings, etc.

Modern day white conservatives wrapping themselves in imagery of MLK to complain about current protests is particularly disturbing. Quite clearly they didn't listen to a word he said.
Not to mention white conservatives HATED MLK while he was alive.

It’s the same thing they always do when people protest injustice - claim they have no issue with protesting, they just don’t want people to protest like X. X being literally whatever way they are protesting currently.

I’m not the biggest Trevor Noah fan put he exposed this nonsense perfectly when he had Tomi Lahren on to discuss the NFL kneeling. He simply said ‘okay, if this is not an appropriate way to protest, then what is?’ She had no answer.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,849
136
Not to mention white conservatives HATED MLK while he was alive.

It’s the same thing they always do when people protest injustice - claim they have no issue with protesting, they just don’t want people to protest like X. X being literally whatever way they are protesting currently.

I’m not the biggest Trevor Noah fan put he exposed this nonsense perfectly when he had Tomi Lahren on to discuss the NFL kneeling. He simply said ‘okay, if this is not an appropriate way to protest, then what is?’ She had no answer.

Dude was illegally surveilled, harassed, and the FBI attempted to blackmail him into committing suicide. All of this would have met with the broad approval of white conservatives at the time as a proper response.

There is no acceptable form of protest to white conservatives. Every time they talk about it they are "Well I of course support the right to protest, but..." no matter what is taking place.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,526
136
Dude was illegally surveilled, harassed, and the FBI attempted to blackmail him into committing suicide. All of this would have met with the broad approval of white conservatives at the time as a proper response.

There is no acceptable form of protest to white conservatives. Every time they talk about it they are "Well I of course support the right to protest, but..." no matter what is taking place.
Exactly, the thing they don't like is black people protesting - they just know that it's not okay to say that so they invent objections as to the manner of protest, holding out that there is of course some kind of protest that they would totally get behind if only the black people would just do that.

What really gave the game away is that they were incandescent with rage that people were kneeling while a song was played. I literally cannot think of a less controversial, more peaceful method of protest than that and yet they STILL freaked out. I wish they would just be honest and say they don't like black protests so black people should stop.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
Speaking of stupid arguments, I like how people keep comparing the Washington DC protestors to great civil rights leaders Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King. It's almost like you completely forgot that the night before they were looting stores, vandalizing national monuments, and setting fire to a church next door to the White House.

Sure, not everyone in that group took part in that, but pretending that they weren't a security risk is naive at best.
I would draw a distinction in protesting to stop systemic racism in police departments because it's costing blacks their lives. That vs storming state capitals with semi automatic weapons, people dressed in blackface, sporting confederate flags so they can go out for a beer or get their mani-pedis
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
I would draw a distinction in protesting to stop systemic racism in police departments because it's costing blacks their lives. That vs storming state capitals with semi automatic weapons, people dressed in blackface, sporting confederate flags so they can go out for a beer or get their mani-pedis

Huh? I don't ever remember saying that I support those camo wearing gun toting state protestor morons. Is anyone in this forum backing them? Where did that come from?
 
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NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,978
2,582
136
Read again. Black males. Females don't contribute significantly to the percent.



It's relatively easy to track with victim data.


And yes, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, black offenders committed 52 per cent of homicides recorded in the data between 1980 and 2008. Only 45 per cent of the offenders were white. Homicide is a broader category than “murder” but let’s not split hairs.

What about violent crime more generally? FBI arrest rates are one way into this. Over the last three years of data – 2011 to 2013 – 38.5 per cent of people arrested for murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault were black.

Clearly, these figures are problematic. We’re talking about arrests not convictions, and high black arrest rates could be taken as evidence that the police are racist.

But academics have noted that the proportion of black suspects arrested by the police tends to match closely the proportion of offenders identified as black by victims in the National Crime Victimization Survey.

This doesn’t support the idea that the police are unfairly discriminating against the black population when they make arrests.


If anything, black people are getting away with unsolved violent crimes.




That wouldn't change anything. Wrongful convictions for murder would probably be like 2-5% (difference being even smaller), with the true criminal being the same race the vast majority of the time.

Edit: If your point was that wrongful conviction difference is a "racist" disparity, what say you about the gender disparities? It's obvious that it s a function of how much crime a group does. If a given group has more little shits, then they'll get saddled with worse generalizations. Ironically, the woke liberals do this with cops to a completely absurd degree.


Seriously? Your proof is a fact check article written in 2018, that uses statistics from 1980 to 2008, and 2013? You also cherry picked the 1980 to 2008 paragraph with the statistics that are 12 years old, because it fits your augment of blacks being responsible for over 50% of murders. But conveniently left out that 2013 paragraph because it shows that number is dropping, and was 38%. Of course, it's 2020, why isn't there any articles using more up to date numbers that can support your argument and support that police are not racist today? Why did the article written in 2018 only include statistics that where 5 or more years old, and nothing newer? It's pretty clear it was written to cover up and/or downplay the racism, otherwise they would have included more up to date statistics, which I cover a little more below.

However, your own information says arrests, not convictions. thanks for clearing that up, even though they are talking about violent crimes, not just murder, which is the only crime you where talking about.

The quote you included states exactly what I said, even though this is again, about violent crimes, not just murder:

Clearly, these figures are problematic. We’re talking about arrests not convictions, and high black arrest rates could be taken as evidence that the police are racist.

Of course they try to downplay the racism here:

But academics have noted that the proportion of black suspects arrested by the police tends to match closely the proportion of offenders identified as black by victims in the National Crime Victimization Survey.

This doesn’t support the idea that the police are unfairly discriminating against the black population when they make arrests.


There are huge problems with this conclusion, which makes it just as much BS as your argument. First, the arrest are taken from the actual recorded count on record which is gathered by the Bureau of Justice Statistics. The victims who identify the offenders as black are from a survey of 120,000 to 240,000 interviews (current numbers), not actual records to back up their claim. So they are comparing actual count (arrests) to estimates based off surveys (offenders identified as black by victims), which equals NO accuracy and also allows the results to be influenced by racial motivations. Second, there is racism involved in who is considered a victim, and who isn't. If it's a black victim and a white offender, it tends to be over looked in areas that there is a racial problem with the police, or they don't report it at all because they know nothing will come of it due to the racism that takes place. There is also the fact that victims and witnesses, tend to confuse facts, including race, color, gender, clothing, height, etc. Hell, some victims of violent crimes invent "alternate versions" that they believe, but are not accurate, to allow them to mentally deal with the tragedy and move past it.

Thanks for the Chicago article written in 2018, that does nothing to support your argument. In fact, it deflates your argument. It's disturbing that you connect the term Minority to mean blacks. Specially since there have been more Hispanics than Blacks in Chicago since 2016.
 
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Denly

Golden Member
May 14, 2011
1,433
229
106
Justin Trudeau asked by reporter about Trump's incitements, stands awkwardly at podium for 30 seconds without saying a word, then mumbles something about racial equality and says nothing about Trump.


This is what happens when we have a POTUS who will retaliate by literally damaging relations with another country if that country's leader dares to criticize him. Trudeau is truly pathetic here.

To each of their own, We in general are happy Trudeau give 30sec of silence protest to Trump. Seriously you forgot /s?
 
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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
To each of their own, We in general are happy Trudeau give 30sec of silence protest to Trump. Seriously you forgot /s?
You know my take on that is Trudeau was sort of like 30 seconds of how do you respond nicely concerning Trumps incitements? You know like a silent 30 second WTF!!!
 
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