And I think its disingenuous to lump ALL Republicans in the group. We have some wonderful GOP candidates here in AZ, some city local.
I understand that you have some reasons to find at least some republicans distasteful. You may not even know why in some cases. I'm just informing you that the reason is probably that they are fascists. This assumes that you don't like fascists.
It's important to remember that Republicans of today make absolutely no secret of their love of fascism.
In 2008, I refused to vote for Obama. He's from Chicago...I'd be surprised if there was ever an honest politician from that shithole city...so, for the first time since my first vote in 1972, I voted for someone OTHER than the Democrat candidate. I voted 3rd party. (now, I couldn't tell you who that was) I wasn't a fan of John McCain...he rolled over too quickly for Bush...plus there was the whole "Is he a "Manchurian candidate" kind of guy? Still, he'd have been miles better than the orange buffoon.
In 2012, I voted for Obama...not so much FOR him...but AGAINST Mitt Romney. I couldn't in good conscious throw my vote away again and take the chance on "Mitt the Mormon" getting elected. No fckn way did I trust that guy.
In this country, (sadly) voting for one of the "other" parties is throwing away your vote. Yes, you can say you voted, (if you don't vote, you give up your right to bitch about political bullshit) but you may have also helped elect "that guy who is the worst of the worst."
I think I'd like to see the other parties have a shot...but it ain't ever gonna happen.
And I think its disingenuous to lump ALL Republicans in the group. We have some wonderful GOP candidates here in AZ, some city local.
All Republicans are flying the Republican banner. And that banner is headed by Donald Trump. Until and unless they move out from that banner, yes, they're all part of the party of white, christonationalist fascism.And I think its disingenuous to lump ALL Republicans in the group. We have some wonderful GOP candidates here in AZ, some city local.
come on, tell us how you really feel about itThat is the argument I made to quite a few Bernie supporters in 2016. In particular, I mentioned that if nothing else, think of the Supreme Court, which may affect us and our kids for decades to come. I didn't even realize just how shitty the Court might be.
My Bernie-loving friends all said they either voted, writing in "Bernie", or didn't bother. The most childish thing they all said: they wanted the system to break down because both parties were the same and maybe it needed to blow up before being rebuilt. Yeah, how does that work exactly? For one thing, both parties may suck to some degree but their policies are NOT the same, certainly not for environmentalist and social issues. How does letting a wanna be dictator get the reins make the system break down? It doesn't. It just lets the GOP cement power and continue tilting the field in their favor with things like gerrymandering and "voting reform" in certain areas (ie, making it as difficult as possible in those areas to actually vote. You can imagine which areas these might be.)
A vote for an independent is at best a wasted vote and at worst a half vote for the GOP if like my friends you align much more with the Democrats. I personally have no issues whatsoever with voting lesser evil. We all do this throughout our lives every days...we pick a traffic route to avoid really bad traffic, not because we are excited to go a certain way. And not to mention there hasn't been an independent candidate whose platform I liked any more than the Democrats so that makes the decision even easier. Hero worship of politicians is sick; these are civil servants that work for us, not gods to bow down to or cheer like it's some hometown high school football team.
The worst are the fucking Green voters. Let's siphon votes away from the Dems and help the one party absolutely dedicated to wreck the environment, how green is that. Look at all the repeals and reversals Trump did in just four years, especially if something was signed by the brown man just before him.
All Republicans are flying the Republican banner. And that banner is headed by Donald Trump. Until and unless they move out from that banner, yes, they're all part of the party of white, christonationalist fascism.
You don't get to pick and choose which parts of the party apply and don't apply. It's an all or nothing thing.
Very much like saying "well gee I'm part of the national socialist Democrat party but you know I don't always agree with this Hitler guy..."
In a sense, our whole system is rigged to only allow 2 parties maximum. Democrat/Republican's are on every ballot in the nation.. Not so for independents, as they have to go to each state, get X number of signatures in each state, and pay a fee, sometimes into the thousands to be on the ballot. (how many signatures, and the amount of the fee is individually decided by each state). If they can't get enough signatures, or don't have the funds, they are not on the ballot in that state. That automatically puts them at a disadvantage. It's pretty much automatic for Dems/Repubs.That is the argument I made to quite a few Bernie supporters in 2016. In particular, I mentioned that if nothing else, think of the Supreme Court, which may affect us and our kids for decades to come. I didn't even realize just how shitty the Court might be.
My Bernie-loving friends all said they either voted, writing in "Bernie", or didn't bother. The most childish thing they all said: they wanted the system to break down because both parties were the same and maybe it needed to blow up before being rebuilt. Yeah, how does that work exactly? For one thing, both parties may suck to some degree but their policies are NOT the same, certainly not for environmentalist and social issues. How does letting a wanna be dictator get the reins make the system break down? It doesn't. It just lets the GOP cement power and continue tilting the field in their favor with things like gerrymandering and "voting reform" in certain areas (ie, making it as difficult as possible in those areas to actually vote. You can imagine which areas these might be.)
A vote for an independent is at best a wasted vote and at worst a half vote for the GOP if like my friends you align much more with the Democrats. I personally have no issues whatsoever with voting lesser evil. We all do this throughout our lives every days...we pick a traffic route to avoid really bad traffic, not because we are excited to go a certain way. And not to mention there hasn't been an independent candidate whose platform I liked any more than the Democrats so that makes the decision even easier. Hero worship of politicians is sick; these are civil servants that work for us, not gods to bow down to or cheer like it's some hometown high school football team.
The worst are the fucking Green voters. Let's siphon votes away from the Dems and help the one party absolutely dedicated to wreck the environment, how green is that. Look at all the repeals and reversals Trump did in just four years, especially if something was signed by the brown man just before him.
Why would you vote for someone knowing they will have pretty much zero support in Congress, under the current structure of our government? It doesn't matter what they stand for if they don't have enough people in Congress to back that ideology and those ideas, nothing will come of that vote. Everyone looks to the President, not realizing the actual change will come from Congress, as they are the legislative body. You want change, it's time that people start putting more effort and thought into who they vote for in the congressional body. If an independent miraculously wins the Presidency, it will be equivalent of 1 man, for the most part, alone, trying to round up and direct a herd of 600 stampeding cattle to go down the path of his choice with the ending result of him just being trampled into the ground. That 600 stampeding herd (Congress) are the ones who control the direction this country goes, and how it effects every one of us.Sorry Im not voting Democrat or Republican next POTUS election as of now.. I dont agree with the majority of either side's candidates on things that are important to me. Additionally, voting for one side willy-nilly just so the other side will lose is absolutely heinous and dishonest. Ive only ever voted for candidates I believe in. The way its supposed to be.
And why would I commit to voting Democrat when we arent even sure who the candidate will be? Thats moronic.
You do know that all the Chicago politicians supported Hillary and campaigned against Obama, right? They hated him. Even Jesse Jackson hated him. If you knew anything in those days, you'd know that Obama was, is, always was, squeaky fucking clean.
You couldn't get a more ringing endorsement of a clean politician than the Chicago democratic machine spending millions to defeat you.
It may not. Given the possible candidates in 2024, Im likely voting independent. Again.
And for the record...I dont think Trump is the problem. Its the public.
He wasn't a chicago native...or long-time local politician...he was a relative outsider. Was he "squeaky clean" as you say? Maybe...but there was the allegation about him being friends with Bill Ayers, a far leftist and founder of the Weather Underground. Did that make him dirty? Probably not, but it did give me cause to be wary.
I don't know why we're talking about Obama in the thread about Trump's criminal behavior, but WTH. Obama's Presidency was actually big turning point for me politically. Not because I actually liked him that much, because of what the conservative reaction to his Presidency taught me about conservatives. You see, prior to Obama, I was a naive wide-eyed libertarian type who believed the difference liberal and conservative, left-wing and right-wing was about economics. And after Obama, I understood fully that that difference is actually about cultural identity and social issues. That to conservatives and right-wingers, "socialism" and "left-wing" are the proposition are that all citizens are created (politically) equal, and that the only reason they don't like socialism is because it means they have to share the govt money trough with people they don't like.He wasn't a chicago native...or long-time local politician...he was a relative outsider. Was he "squeaky clean" as you say? Maybe...but there was the allegation about him being friends with Bill Ayers, a far leftist and founder of the Weather Underground. Did that make him dirty? Probably not, but it did give me cause to be wary.
Obama was a "Chicago community organizer." That was one of the things that made me skeptical about him. That he wasn't a Chicago native didn't enter into it. I mentioned that in reference to your comment about the Chicago political machine disliking him.Exactly! Which is why it's so puzzling that you immediately associated him with the local politics from the beginning, so much so that, no matter when you came to realize how much of an outsider he was--2004, 2008, like 5 minutes ago when you just decided to care--you still think of him as "corrupt Chicago politician."
It doesn't make sense that you can square those two things.
so Obama actually attended all sorts of meetings, publicly announced or otherwise. Bill Ayers attended lots of meetings, too. He didn't run all the meetings he attended. They're crossing paths in the way they did, is pretty much mathematically guaranteed by Obama simply doing his job at the time.
In 2008, I refused to vote for Obama. He's from Chicago...I'd be surprised if there was ever an honest politician from that shithole city...so, for the first time since my first vote in 1972, I voted for someone OTHER than the Democrat candidate. I voted 3rd party. (now, I couldn't tell you who that was) I wasn't a fan of John McCain...he rolled over too quickly for Bush...plus there was the whole "Is he a "Manchurian candidate" kind of guy? Still, he'd have been miles better than the orange buffoon.
In 2012, I voted for Obama...not so much FOR him...but AGAINST Mitt Romney. I couldn't in good conscious throw my vote away again and take the chance on "Mitt the Mormon" getting elected. No fckn way did I trust that guy. As it turned out, Obama wasn't terrible. I believe he did his best...and his best was pretty damned good, especially considering the mountain of shit he was handed when he was first elected.
In this country, (sadly) voting for one of the "other" parties is throwing away your vote. Yes, you can say you voted, (if you don't vote, you give up your right to bitch about political bullshit) but you may have also helped elect "that guy who is the worst of the worst."
I think I'd like to see the other parties have a shot...but it ain't ever gonna happen.
He wasn't a chicago native...or long-time local politician...he was a relative outsider. Was he "squeaky clean" as you say? Maybe...but there was the allegation about him being friends with Bill Ayers, a far leftist and founder of the Weather Underground. Did that make him dirty? Probably not, but it did give me cause to be wary.
huh? the weather app?
I'd really like to know who is pushing the nilihism on the extreme progressive side. I'm guessing it's the same people pushing it to the far right. Such a childish, stupid line of thinking. WTF is going to pop up from the ashes after you burn it all down?That is the argument I made to quite a few Bernie supporters in 2016. In particular, I mentioned that if nothing else, think of the Supreme Court, which may affect us and our kids for decades to come. I didn't even realize just how shitty the Court might be.
My Bernie-loving friends all said they either voted, writing in "Bernie", or didn't bother. The most childish thing they all said: they wanted the system to break down because both parties were the same and maybe it needed to blow up before being rebuilt. Yeah, how does that work exactly? For one thing, both parties may suck to some degree but their policies are NOT the same, certainly not for environmentalist and social issues. How does letting a wanna be dictator get the reins make the system break down? It doesn't. It just lets the GOP cement power and continue tilting the field in their favor with things like gerrymandering and "voting reform" in certain areas (ie, making it as difficult as possible in those areas to actually vote. You can imagine which areas these might be.)
A vote for an independent is at best a wasted vote and at worst a half vote for the GOP if like my friends you align much more with the Democrats. I personally have no issues whatsoever with voting lesser evil. We all do this throughout our lives every days...we pick a traffic route to avoid really bad traffic, not because we are excited to go a certain way. And not to mention there hasn't been an independent candidate whose platform I liked any more than the Democrats so that makes the decision even easier. Hero worship of politicians is sick; these are civil servants that work for us, not gods to bow down to or cheer like it's some hometown high school football team.
The worst are the fucking Green voters. Let's siphon votes away from the Dems and help the one party absolutely dedicated to wreck the environment, how green is that. Look at all the repeals and reversals Trump did in just four years, especially if something was signed by the brown man just before him.
And I think its disingenuous to lump ALL Republicans in the group. We have some wonderful GOP...
How so?
Yeah, we need to be really super careful about not upsetting the feels of the AZ Republicans who lump all moderates, liberals, and Democrats as violent antifa/BLM rioters or pedos or groomers.And I think its disingenuous to lump ALL Republicans in the group. We have some wonderful GOP candidates here in AZ, some city local.
This is true.And I think its disingenuous to lump ALL Republicans in the group. We have some wonderful GOP candidates here in AZ, some city local.
“I’m a Republican recorder living in a Republican county where the candidate that they wanted to win won by 2-to-1 in this county and still getting grief, and so is my staff,” said Leslie Hoffman, the top election official in Yavapai County, Arizona. "
This is simply just wrong.Even those that aren't overt fascists work tirelessly to support their fascist party members and party platform. ...which today is "Only Fascism."
Your statement is insane.You don't get to pick and choose which parts of the party apply and don't apply. It's an all or nothing thing.
The people being purged still consider themselves to be republicans.They endorsed Trump for President not once but twice.
They backed him on impeachment, twice.
Those who were not "lumped in", as you say, were promptly removed from the party, retired, or lost the next primary.
There is no GOP that is not the spitting image of Trump.
You could name one or two people. In total. Romney, for example. He faces harsh criticism and death threats for not being a loyal lap dog.
What use are those few who will not or can not do anything to wrest control of the GOP from the cult mania that has captured it?
If their sole desire to overthrow our Democracy does not upset you...
Mate...
This is true.
Many republicans, especially on the local level, are not interested in fascism and will fight it.
They are American Heros.
see:
Republicans In Michigan Have Replaced Election Officials Who Certified Biden's Win : Consider This from NPR
Bipartisan members who serve on state and county boards of canvassers in Michigan have an important job: certifying the results of elections, making them official. In 2020, Former President Trump and his allies urged them not to certify as part of his campaign to undermine and overturn the...www.npr.org
see:
Facing harassment and death threats, some election workers weigh whether to stay
Since the 2020 election, election officials and workers have faced an onslaught of harassment and threats stemming from false claims it was stolen from former President Donald Trump.www.pbs.org
We have many republican heroes in this time of darkness.
And they need to realize they aren't anymore. The modern Republican party is one of christonatonalist fascism.The people being purged still consider themselves to be republicans.
The purging is being done on a local level. One state purges, another does not. It is not black and white, and it certainly is not all or nothing.