News Trump: Mar-a-Lago just raided by FBI

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rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,389
3,120
146
There will absolutely be EP and classification issues raised that have never been decided. There is largely no precedent on those issues, at least in terms of who the possible defendant is. And that means they'll absolutely be escalated to SCOTUS at some point during the proceedings. You may think they're based on invalid theories on their face (and they likely are) but that means nothing in the current judicial climate. They will have implications on both process/timeline, and potentially decisions/judgements.

Those are just 2 areas. I'm sure there will be more.

Perhaps only because they're so goddamn self evident that no reasonable person would put forward the absurd positions Trump is promoting.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
Every time, EVERY TIME I hear the media talk about the many crimes Donald Trump has committed the media always uses those words "if" or "possible" or "might have" or "may have" or "could have", but never have we heard the media use the words HE DEFINITELY DID THIS, WE HAVE SOLID PROOF, CASE CLOSED. No matter what the accusation or crime committed, those nasty words IF, POSSIBLY, MIGHT HAVE, COULD HAVE, and all of those other nasty words always get in the way.

Hell... it smells like a crime, it looks and acts like a crime, and if anyone other than Donald Trump were involved It damn well WOULD BE A CRIME.... yet never quite enough of a crime to nail Donald Trump.
And now, the word is that Donald Trump ordered boxes of classified documents to be moved AFTER the FBI subpoena them. And the news media is comparing this to Richard Nixon's smoking gun, but still again we hear those nasty words IF, MAYBE, COULD HAVE, POSSIBLY, etc etc.

Anyone else, ANYONE ELSE would be indicted, arrested, tried AND convicted. ANYONE ELSE..... But not Donald Trump. Oh no... Never Donald Trump.
We don't have a smoking gun here, we have a F-ing box of smoking assault weapons. And... we also still have those nasty words IF, MIGHT HAVE, COULD HAVE, POSSIBLY, MAYBE, etc etc.
Wake me when its over.... I'm getting quite extensively bored.

Oh, and the Jan 6th committee is holding another hearing tomorrow, Thursday, But WHY????? What "IS" the point? Really? We know Adolf Hitler killed the Jews, so what more do we need as proof, fingerprints off the six million dead Jews???
What is it that protects Donald Trump so ????
Magic? Satan? Pure evil? The money???
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,794
10,321
136
Every time, EVERY TIME I hear the media talk about the many crimes Donald Trump has committed the media always uses those words "if" or "possible" or "might have" or "may have" or "could have", but never have we heard the media use the words HE DEFINITELY DID THIS, WE HAVE SOLID PROOF, CASE CLOSED. No matter what the accusation or crime committed, those nasty words IF, POSSIBLY, MIGHT HAVE, COULD HAVE, and all of those other nasty words always get in the way.

Hell... it smells like a crime, it looks and acts like a crime, and if anyone other than Donald Trump were involved It damn well WOULD BE A CRIME.... yet never quite enough of a crime to nail Donald Trump.
And now, the word is that Donald Trump ordered boxes of classified documents to be moved AFTER the FBI subpoena them. And the news media is comparing this to Richard Nixon's smoking gun, but still again we hear those nasty words IF, MAYBE, COULD HAVE, POSSIBLY, etc etc.

Anyone else, ANYONE ELSE would be indicted, arrested, tried AND convicted. ANYONE ELSE..... But not Donald Trump. Oh no... Never Donald Trump.
We don't have a smoking gun here, we have a F-ing box of smoking assault weapons. And... we also still have those nasty words IF, MIGHT HAVE, COULD HAVE, POSSIBLY, MAYBE, etc etc.
Wake me when its over.... I'm getting quite extensively bored.

Oh, and the Jan 6th committee is holding another hearing tomorrow, Thursday, But WHY????? What "IS" the point? Really? We know Adolf Hitler killed the Jews, so what more do we need as proof, fingerprints off the six million dead Jews???
What is it that protects Donald Trump so ????
Magic? Satan? Pure evil? The money???

they always do that because he hasn't been convicted in court yet. everything is "allegedly" or otherwise a hypothetical. even though there's mountains of fucking proof.
 
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eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,338
4,589
136
But like for any of the recent mass shootings. They were caught with literally a smoking gun. How much more proof is needed to call them guilty than just alleged? Like I think the suspect has more pressing concerns than suing media for calling them guilty before conviction.
 
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SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
There will absolutely be EP and classification issues raised that have never been decided. There is largely no precedent on those issues, at least in terms of who the possible defendant is. And that means they'll absolutely be escalated to SCOTUS at some point during the proceedings. You may think they're based on invalid theories on their face (and they likely are) but that means nothing in the current judicial climate. They will have implications on both process/timeline, and potentially decisions/judgements.

Those are just 2 areas. I'm sure there will be more.
I honestly don't see any. Trump can claim that he psychically declassified the documents and Biden will just say that he psychically reclassified them, and Trump is still stuck having refused to hand over classified documents.
The laws around classified documents are pretty straight forward.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,708
49,291
136
I honestly don't see any. Trump can claim that he psychically declassified the documents and Biden will just say that he psychically reclassified them, and Trump is still stuck having refused to hand over classified documents.
The laws around classified documents are pretty straight forward.
And also irrelevant to the likely statutes Trump will be charged under.

The 'I declassified everything!' argument is a PR bit because really if they weren't classified it's very unlikely the DOJ would indict him over them. I don't think psychic declassification is going to be very convincing to people though and yes, anything Trump declassified in his brain would be reclassified the instant Biden became president.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,793
8,357
136
I honestly don't see any. Trump can claim that he psychically declassified the documents and Biden will just say that he psychically reclassified them, and Trump is still stuck having refused to hand over classified documents.
The laws around classified documents are pretty straight forward.

I'm not saying they're valid. I'm saying they will raise them. And it will/would impact any proceedings.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,617
5,311
136
Every time, EVERY TIME I hear the media talk about the many crimes Donald Trump has committed the media always uses those words "if" or "possible" or "might have" or "may have" or "could have", but never have we heard the media use the words HE DEFINITELY DID THIS, WE HAVE SOLID PROOF, CASE CLOSED. No matter what the accusation or crime committed, those nasty words IF, POSSIBLY, MIGHT HAVE, COULD HAVE, and all of those other nasty words always get in the way.

Hell... it smells like a crime, it looks and acts like a crime, and if anyone other than Donald Trump were involved It damn well WOULD BE A CRIME.... yet never quite enough of a crime to nail Donald Trump.
And now, the word is that Donald Trump ordered boxes of classified documents to be moved AFTER the FBI subpoena them. And the news media is comparing this to Richard Nixon's smoking gun, but still again we hear those nasty words IF, MAYBE, COULD HAVE, POSSIBLY, etc etc.

Anyone else, ANYONE ELSE would be indicted, arrested, tried AND convicted. ANYONE ELSE..... But not Donald Trump. Oh no... Never Donald Trump.
We don't have a smoking gun here, we have a F-ing box of smoking assault weapons. And... we also still have those nasty words IF, MIGHT HAVE, COULD HAVE, POSSIBLY, MAYBE, etc etc.
Wake me when its over.... I'm getting quite extensively bored.

Oh, and the Jan 6th committee is holding another hearing tomorrow, Thursday, But WHY????? What "IS" the point? Really? We know Adolf Hitler killed the Jews, so what more do we need as proof, fingerprints off the six million dead Jews???
What is it that protects Donald Trump so ????
Magic? Satan? Pure evil? The money???
In the US a person is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. A lot people seem to have forgotten this and replaced it with "internet guilt", based on an internet conviction. It leads to a lot of tooth gnashing and outrage, but little else. Your post here is a perfect example. You know Trump is guilty, you know he's a criminal, you know he should be jailed, and you're upset that it hasn't happened. The one thought that you've never considered is that he's not guilty until he's convicted.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,685
2,136
126
In the US a person is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. A lot people seem to have forgotten this and replaced it with "internet guilt", based on an internet conviction. It leads to a lot of tooth gnashing and outrage, but little else. Your post here is a perfect example. You know Trump is guilty, you know he's a criminal, you know he should be jailed, and you're upset that it hasn't happened. The one thought that you've never considered is that he's not guilty until he's convicted.

Why do you avoid @fskimospy every single time he calls you out on this?
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,996
14,507
146
In the US a person is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. A lot people seem to have forgotten this and replaced it with "internet guilt", based on an internet conviction. It leads to a lot of tooth gnashing and outrage, but little else. Your post here is a perfect example. You know Trump is guilty, you know he's a criminal, you know he should be jailed, and you're upset that it hasn't happened. The one thought that you've never considered is that he's not guilty until he's convicted.

Do. You. Believe. Trump. Should. Be. Indicted?

Fuck guilt. Innocent until proven guilty is for judges and juries. The prosecutor has NO SUCH presumption.

With what information we all have now. Do you believe a criminal charge and trial is validated here?

I asked you this before and you ignored me. Someone please copy pasta this in case he has me on ignore.
 
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NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,967
2,574
136
In the US a person is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. A lot people seem to have forgotten this and replaced it with "internet guilt", based on an internet conviction. It leads to a lot of tooth gnashing and outrage, but little else. Your post here is a perfect example. You know Trump is guilty, you know he's a criminal, you know he should be jailed, and you're upset that it hasn't happened. The one thought that you've never considered is that he's not guilty until he's convicted.
You know, A person can be guilty as fuck (like Trump) and still not be convicted.. Look at O.J. Or are you going to sit there and say he did not commit a crime because he wasn't found guilty in a court of law? Our legal system has a lot of fallacies because of how easy it is to circumvent. Specially if you have money.

The fact that you keep trying to hide Trump's crimes and lack of innocence behind "not guilty until proven in a court of law" shows that you don't have an ounce of integrity. Because a man with integrity wouldn't be sitting here defending a guy who continuously lies over and over, changed his story from one day to the next.. Only a fool would think he wasn't guilty.. as a honest man wouldn't have to change his story, not even once. The story would stay the same no matter what day it is. Yet, you seem to be immune to the bullshit Trump feeds you..
 
Last edited:
Reactions: DarthKyrie

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,708
49,291
136
You know, A person can be guilty a fuck (like Trump) and still not be convicted.. Look at O.J. Or are you going to sit there and say he did not commit a crime because he wasn't found guilty in a court of law? Our legal system has a lot of fallacies because of how easy it is to circumvent. Specially if you have money.

The fact that you keep trying to hide Trump's crimes and lack of innocence behind "not guilty until proven in a court of law" shows that you don't have an ounce of integrity. Because a man with integrity wouldn't be sitting here defending a guy who continuously lies over and over, changed his story from one day to the next.. Only a fool would think he wasn't guilty.. as a honest man wouldn't have to change his story, not even once. The story would stay the same no matter what day it is. Yet, you seem to be immune to the bullshit Trump feeds you..
It's interesting how people who presumably had no problem simultaneously holding the ideas of:
1) OJ hasn't been convicted of murder
2) OJ is a murderer

Somehow have difficulty holding the ideas of:
1) Trump hasn't been convicted of a crime
2) Trump is guilty of one or more crimes

Anyone with common sense knows OJ did it. He gets to walk because that's how our system works, but no serious person thinks he didn't kill those two people. Even if Trump ends up walking completely any serious person knows he is guilty in this documents case.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
In the US a person is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. A lot people seem to have forgotten this and replaced it with "internet guilt", based on an internet conviction.
You seem to be confused about what that statement means. It does not mean he is literally innocent. It means that the government must treat him as if he is innocent until they can prove otherwise to a court. It is intended to make sure that everyone is treated equally by our justice system. It does not mean I, or anyone not officially representing a US government, must treat him as innocent. For example it is perfectly legal for me to fire someone for being accused of a crime without them being convicted.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,996
14,507
146
It's interesting how people who presumably had no problem simultaneously holding the ideas of:
1) OJ hasn't been convicted of murder
2) OJ is a murderer

Somehow have difficulty holding the ideas of:
1) Trump hasn't been convicted of a crime
2) Trump is guilty of one or more crimes

Anyone with common sense knows OJ did it. He gets to walk because that's how our system works, but no serious person thinks he didn't kill those two people. Even if Trump ends up walking completely any serious person knows he is guilty in this documents case.

This is a classic catch 22 framing to avoid answering.

He can only be presumed guilty if convicted.

Therefore we cannot charge anyone with a crime (this would be a presumption of guilt) unless they'll already been convicted.

Schrodinger's criminal justice system.

Greenman's fallacy.

Meanwhile he will not say if he believes Trump should be charged.

Dance, Greenman, Dance.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,338
4,589
136
I'm confused with the repeated Biden can reclassify. Like he never said he was clairvoyant and can reclassify something he can't identify.
 
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Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,793
8,357
136
An example of what appears to be public common sense and conventional wisdom being ignored during a legal proceeding is the jury in the Parkland shooting case not recommending the death penalty. You almost couldn't have a more perfect scenario of what should qualify for getting the chair/needle/gas chamber, and yet at least one juror decided that wasn't the case.
 
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