News Trump: Mar-a-Lago just raided by FBI

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Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
1,650
3,200
136
Yes, correct. It's better in the federal system where there are sentencing guidelines. In most state courts, there are only minimums and maximums, and so long as the judge is within that range, while the prosecution could theoretically appeal, there wouldn't be any good grounds. In federal court, however, any judge letting a defendant off with no time for that many felonies is going to get reversed.

No, Trump isn't going to get no jail time here. If convicted and not let out on appeal, he's going to die in prison. While I'm unfamiliar with the sentencing guidelines, I can't see him getting less than 10 years. I think some people are still not getting how serious these charges are.

The judge could in theory Rule 29 it, which is like a JNOV (judgment notwithstanding of verdict) in state court. But it's a rarely used and extreme remedy. In this case, the evidence is so strong that were she to do that, I think she'd have reason to fear being thrown off the bench for misconduct.

If she wants to help Trump, her best bet is to let him delay the trial until after the election.
The main questions are how much of the evidence is Cannon going to unilaterally throw out, likely even without a defense request - in line with her prior creative rulings in favor of Trump - several of which Cannon made without even being requested by Trump lawyers as too far outside the law even for team Trump (which then has to be appealed), and whether she will manage to delay trial until after the 2024 election with repeated continuances and stays for various defense motions.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
The main questions are how much of the evidence is Cannon going to unilaterally throw out, likely even without a defense request - in line with her prior creative rulings in favor of Trump - several of which Cannon made without even being requested by Trump lawyers as too far outside the law even for team Trump (which then has to be appealed), and whether she will manage to delay trial until after the 2024 election with repeated continuances and stays for various defense motions.

Not sure what you mean by "throwing out" parts of a sentence. Whatever you're talking about, it isn't analogous to her conduct on the earlier procedural matters. The most she can do with the sentence is make terms run concurrently, which they usually do anyway, and go somewhat below the federal sentencing guidelines, but only if she can justify it.

So far as putting the trial out, yes she can, and probably will.

There are two main threats here: 1) the trial is delayed until after the election, Trump is elected and has his DoJ drop the case; 2) a rogue magatard juror refuses to convict on overwhelming evidence,. The latter would cause a mistrial and the DoJ could then try the case a second time.

The thing is, if Trump is elected, the whole country is irrevocably fucked on so many different levels anyway. The stakes of this election for Trump are now a clear binary: either he spends to rest of his life in a prison cell, or he becomes the first Dictator of the United States of Trumpistan.

Trump just has to not be elected. Period.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,699
15,940
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Not sure what you mean by "throwing out" parts of a sentence. Whatever you're talking about, it isn't analogous to her conduct on the earlier procedural matters. The most she can do with the sentence is make terms run concurrently, which they usually do anyway, and go somewhat below the federal sentencing guidelines, but only if she can justify it.

So far as putting the trial out, yes she can, and probably will.

There are two main threats here: 1) the trial is delayed until after the election, Trump is elected and has his DoJ drop the case; 2) a rogue magatard juror refuses to convict on overwhelming evidence,. The latter would cause a mistrial and the DoJ could then try the case a second time.

The thing is, if Trump is elected, the whole country is irrevocably fucked on so many different levels anyway. The stakes of this election for Trump are now a clear binary: either he spends to rest of his life in a prison cell, or he becomes the first Dictator of the United States of Trumpistan.

Trump just has to not be elected. Period.
In theory couldn’t the judge keep shopping for a die hard MAGA juror and/or deny all requests to not admit a die hard MAGA?
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
In theory couldn’t the judge keep shopping for a die hard MAGA juror and/or deny all requests to not admit a die hard MAGA?

Maybe, but probably not. In voir dire, each side has a certain number of peremptory challenges where they can dismiss a juror for any reason. After that, dismissal for cause is decided by the judge. So you might imagine that some prospective juror identifies himself as a strong Trump supporter, and the prosecutor makes a challenge for cause, but the judge denies it. But they're not allowed to ask questions about political beliefs, political affiliations, or voting history, Whether someone is a magatard or not would be inferred from demographics, which is imprecise.

Believe it or not, most jurors set aside political and other biases when deciding a verdict. Note that a jury consisting of 11 southern white and 1 black juror convicted all three defendants on the top count in the Ahmad Arbury case. Undoubtedly there were multiple Trump voters in that mix.

So the juror in question would have to be a real fanatic. It could happen though. These nutballs are out there and we may get one who can conceal his bias well enough. So it's a concern but I wouldn't freak out about it right now. On balance, a jury is likely to convict. I'm more worried that Trump wins the election and dismisses the case.
 

Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
1,650
3,200
136
Not sure what you mean by "throwing out" parts of a sentence.
Was referring to throwing out evidence, not the sentence.

Such as finding attorney-client privilege improperly breached and throwing out the all of the associated "tainted" testimony and evidence, and throwing out the Trump recordings as not all parties specifically verbally consented to the recording, as low hanging fruit for a hyper-partisan judge. Which still doesn't completely gut the case, but makes it much weaker. Then toss in a ruling such that the US must completely un-redact the defense documents to be used in evidence - forcing the US to chose between withdrawing documents or risking revealing top secret sources and methods.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,325
4,587
136
She’d be hard pressed to overturn the crime fraud exemption. And lol not providing consent to recording? The orange monkey granted it. The only hope is delay delay and delay. But yes giving a slap on the hand sentence is the only likely way she can help her orange monkey king
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
Was referring to throwing out evidence, not the sentence.

Such as finding attorney-client privilege improperly breached and throwing out the all of the associated "tainted" testimony and evidence, and throwing out the Trump recordings as not all parties specifically verbally consented to the recording, as low hanging fruit for a hyper-partisan judge. Which still doesn't completely gut the case, but makes it much weaker. Then toss in a ruling such that the US must completely un-redact the defense documents to be used in evidence - forcing the US to chose between withdrawing documents or risking revealing top secret sources and methods.

She might be able to throw out the attorney's testimony, claiming that the privilege was not pierced by the crime-fraud exception but she'd likely be reversed and the prosecution doesn't need it anyway, Not much else she can throw out.
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
5,757
979
126
Not sure what you mean by "throwing out" parts of a sentence. Whatever you're talking about, it isn't analogous to her conduct on the earlier procedural matters. The most she can do with the sentence is make terms run concurrently, which they usually do anyway, and go somewhat below the federal sentencing guidelines, but only if she can justify it.

So far as putting the trial out, yes she can, and probably will.

There are two main threats here: 1) the trial is delayed until after the election, Trump is elected and has his DoJ drop the case; 2) a rogue magatard juror refuses to convict on overwhelming evidence,. The latter would cause a mistrial and the DoJ could then try the case a second time.

The thing is, if Trump is elected, the whole country is irrevocably fucked on so many different levels anyway. The stakes of this election for Trump are now a clear binary: either he spends to rest of his life in a prison cell, or he becomes the first Dictator of the United States of Trumpistan.

Trump just has to not be elected. Period.
The worse that can happen is he is found guilty then elected president and pardons himself. Dropping the case is pointless because it can still be prosecuted at a later date.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
The thing is, if Trump is elected, the whole country is irrevocably fucked on so many different levels anyway. The stakes of this election for Trump are now a clear binary: either he spends to rest of his life in a prison cell, or he becomes the first Dictator of the United States of Trumpistan.
Trump just has to not be elected. Period.
What I find amazing, maga do not realize the world of shit they will find themselves living in if their hopes and dreams do come true. It hasn't sank in that everything Trump touches... dies. Destroyed. Comes crashing down.
In a way, I would just love to see the look in their maga eyes when they too become the victim of Donald Trump. And the will, every damn one of them.
However, I would only want to witness that day from a distance, oh say from France. My new home, your new home, our new home.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
The worse that can happen is he is found guilty then elected president and pardons himself. Dropping the case is pointless because it can still be prosecuted at a later date.

I assume the self-pardon would happen after dropping the case. Then again, I don't see Trump leaving office until the day he dies anyway. He'll declare a fake national emergency and cancel the 2028 election.
 
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alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,667
3,066
136
I assume the self-pardon would happen after dropping the case. Then again, I don't see Trump leaving office until the day he dies anyway. He'll declare a fake national emergency and cancel the 2028 election.

If the case is dropped, there would be no need for a "self pardon". I also (fingers crossed) don't think he can win again.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,452
770
126
If the case is dropped, there would be no need for a "self pardon". I also (fingers crossed) don't think he can win again.

I think the biggest reason he beat Hillary was so many Americans didn't take him seriously and laughed at the thought of him becoming president. So a lot of them voting would be a waste of time because there was no way he could possibly win. I know 5 people personally who didn't vote in 2016 because they thought he would get destroyed by Hillary. But every single one of them got their asses to the booth and voted in 2020 to make sure that shit didn't happen again. I suspect if he runs in 2024 even more of the people who hate him will make sure they get out and vote. 2016 proved anything is possible, but people won't allow that to happen again here.

With that said, he'd still get a scary number of votes.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
I think the biggest reason he beat Hillary was so many Americans didn't take him seriously and laughed at the thought of him becoming president. So a lot of them voting would be a waste of time because there was no way he could possibly win. I know 5 people personally who didn't vote in 2016 because they thought he would get destroyed by Hillary. But every single one of them got their asses to the booth and voted in 2020 to make sure that shit didn't happen again. I suspect if he runs in 2024 even more of the people who hate him will make sure they get out and vote. 2016 proved anything is possible, but people won't allow that to happen again here.

With that said, he'd still get a scary number of votes.
Never and I do mean NEVER, underestimate the stupidity of the American voter.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,268
28,128
136
Fox News promoting shootings to prevent the prosecution of Trump
Retired Major League Baseball pitcher-turned-right-wing commentator Curt Schilling told Fox News host Jesse Watters on Friday that "somebody is going to have to pull a trigger" in retaliation to the criminal charges that were filed against former President Donald Trump by United States Justice Department special counsel Jack Smith.

 
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MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,817
7,973
136
Add to that: no golf, only exercise is whatever one can do at home, e.g. treadmill, stationary bike, stair climber machine, etc.

I'll be satisfied with that sentence for the rest of his feeble life.
So riding a golf cart is now considered exercise?
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,817
7,973
136
I saw an explanation by a former federal prosecutor, that even if the jury returns a guilty verdict on all the charges, she can merely sentence Trump to "time served, you are free to go sir" as none of the 32 charges carry a minimum sentence.
 

Motostu

Senior member
Oct 5, 2020
519
557
106
It's interesting that the right sees the left as the ones not following the rules. Trying to decide if they truly believe it, or are just trying to steer the narrative. In what reality can you defend a guy that has essentially admitted to what he's been indicted for? Like, because he's a former president, he becomes immune from prosecution? Unconstitutional? My ass!

Laws need to apply to all in this country.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,817
7,973
136
It's interesting that the right sees the left as the ones not following the rules. Trying to decide if they truly believe it, or are just trying to steer the narrative. In what reality can you defend a guy that has essentially admitted to what he's been indicted for? Like, because he's a former president, he becomes immune from prosecution? Unconstitutional? My ass!

Laws need to apply to all in this country.
The right are just fucking stupid, and once you include that in how you view them, it all makes more sense.

Example, the right wanted to "lock her up" but at the time everything they accused Hillary of doing was a misdemeanor, so they changed the laws to make them to a felony... annnnnnd now Trump is indited on what are now felony charges.
 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
23,772
4,963
146
s promoting shootings to prevent the prosecution of Trump



Ha ha ha ha
shilling, what an asshole.
Saying the right is the good guys with morals that follow all the rules and laws.

He must be smoking the good stuff
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
The right are just fucking stupid, and once you include that in how you view them, it all makes more sense.

Example, the right wanted to "lock her up" but at the time everything they accused Hillary of doing was a misdemeanor, so they changed the laws to make them to a felony... annnnnnd now Trump is indited on what are now felony charges.

It should be mentioned that many of the things Trump is being charged with were felonies before Trump signed that law. While Trump may have increased his legal jeopardy by signing that law, his conduct was much worse than hers to begin with.
 
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pete6032

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2010
7,575
3,119
136
Trump will delay as much as possible and then election season will begin and the case will be put on hold. If he is elected the case will disappear. If not, it will go to trial.
 
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