News Trump: Mar-a-Lago just raided by FBI

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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
DOJ is appealing:



Justice Dept. appeals Cannon’s order for a Mar-a-Lago special master
Donald Trump’s lawyers want a special master to shield seized documents that are protected by attorney-client or executive privilege


The Justice Department said it would appeal a federal judge’s decision to appoint a special master to sift through thousands of documents the FBI seized from Donald Trump’s Florida residence on Aug. 8, according to a Thursday court filing.

The notice of appeal arrived three days after Judge Aileen M. Cannon ruled in favor of Trump and said she would appoint a special master, slowing — at least temporarily — an investigation into the possible mishandling of extremely sensitive classified information, as well as possible hiding, tampering or destruction of government records.

The Justice Department wrote in a brief filing that it would be appealing the decision to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals. The notice paves the way for federal prosecutors to submit a detailed appeals brief to the 11th Circuit Court in Atlanta.

Trump’s legal team argued in a federal courthouse in West Palm Beach last week that a special master is needed to determine whether any of the documents — more than 100 of which are classified — should be shielded from investigators because of attorney-client or executive privilege. They also said an independent outside expert would boost “trust” in the Justice Department’s criminal probe.

Justice Department lawyers told Cannon they had already sorted through the documents, using a “filter team” to separate out more than 500 pages of documents potentially covered by attorney-client privilege. That arrangement was approved by the U.S. magistrate judge who authorized the search warrant for Mar-a-Lago, Trump’s Florida home and private club, after the government tried for months to get Trump and his advisers to return all the government documents kept at the property.

The Justice Department also argued that a former president cannot assert executive privilege after he leaves office, and that it is not possible for one part of the executive branch to assert privilege to shield documents from another part.

The Washington Post reported Tuesday that among the documents seized by the FBI was one describing a foreign government’s military defenses, including its nuclear capabilities, according to people familiar with the situation who spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to discuss it. The people also said of the seized documents detail top-secret U.S. operations that are so closely guarded that many senior national security officials are kept in the dark about them.

While the appointment of a special master means investigators cannot use the documents they seized until the outside expert clears them, an appeal of Cannon’s decision carries its own legal risks for the Justice Department.

The appeals process could take longer than any document review by the special master. And there is no guarantee that the government would prevail, particularly if the case were to reach the Supreme Court, which has a 6-3 conservative majority that includes three Trump appointees.

I honestly cannot understand this decision. A federal appeal takes an average of 6 months. It's never less than 90 days, and could take 2 years. So, this appears to now be over in terms any impact it could have on 2024. Trump will not see jail for this any time in the forseeable future. Because they decided to make it that way.

Anyone taking bets over whether these clowns will ever prosecute over 1/6?

PS: it's remotely possible they still won't appeal. Filing a Notice of Appeal has to be done quickly to preserve your rights, but it doesn't mean you have to pursue the appeal. I filed a couple NoA's in my time without pursuing the appeal. Because we hadn't made up our minds yet by the time we approached the filing deadline.
 

DarthKyrie

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2016
1,533
1,282
146
I can't believe that the DOJ had to explain to this "judge" that the FBI is part of the IC (Intelligence Community) she ordered to continue with its investigation into National Secrets that were exposed if any. She ordered the FBI to stop investigating crimes while also trying to determine whether or not National Security has been compromised.

If I didn't know any better I would say that this person could not have been approved by the United States Senate to be a federal judge. I guess having a basic knowledge of how things work is no longer a requirement for the job.
 

Uhtrinity

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2003
2,251
197
106
The people at Meidas Touch think the appeal was written in a way to put Trump and Judge Cannon in a corner and it appears that might be right. Judge Cannon has made two more docket decisions and Trump has to respond by the 12th. They did a few more videos before this one saying the way the appeal was written was brilliant as it would force Trump to admit he had stolen the documents. Judge Cannon has now moved her piece on the chess board in response.

 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,253
28,107
136
If the judge wants her order to remain all Trump's lawyers have to do is declare under oath all those documents have been declassified just like Trump claimed.

Think that will happen?
 

DarthKyrie

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2016
1,533
1,282
146
The people at Meidas Touch think the appeal was written in a way to put Trump and Judge Cannon in a corner and it appears that might be right. Judge Cannon has made two more docket decisions and Trump has to respond by the 12th. They did a few more videos before this one saying the way the appeal was written was brilliant as it would force Trump to admit he had stolen the documents. Just Cannon has now moved her piece on the chess board in response.


That was the video I got my info from. I have been watching them for about a week now it's nice to see an actual lawyer lay out what is happening because I'm not a lawyer and don't know the ins and outs of law.
 

DarthKyrie

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2016
1,533
1,282
146
If the judge wants her order to remain all Trump's lawyers have to do is declare under oath all those documents have been declassified just like Trump claimed.

Think that will happen?

I would love to see Trump perjure himself while at the same time fully admitting that he stole the documents by claiming they are his property and not the US government's property while claiming that he declassified them.
 
Reactions: Pohemi

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,274
4,566
136
I would love to see Trump perjure himself while at the same time fully admitting that he stole the documents by claiming they are his property and not the US government's property while claiming that he declassified them.
We won’t see him under oath during this investigation portion. Will have to wait until trial
 

DarthKyrie

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2016
1,533
1,282
146
We won’t see him under oath during this investigation portion. Will have to wait until trial

He can perjure himself by claiming that the 100 files that the DOJ wants excluded from the Special Master that contain information that has to do with the national security of the United States in response to the 2nd order issued by the judge yesterday are his and that he declassified them.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,253
28,107
136
From what I can find, that's pretty much exactly how it works. He doesn't even have to say "Eenie Meanie, Chili Beanie", or wave his hands.
Found an explanation that seems to be well documented, though it might be one of those looney right wing sites.
Hey Greenie,

All Trump's lawyers have to do to thwart the latest filing by DOJ is under oath declare those documents recovered from MAL are classified.

Take a guess why his lawyers WON'T do that. They should feel free testifying to that. Trump said he did.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,573
5,291
136
Hey Greenie,

All Trump's lawyers have to do to thwart the latest filing by DOJ is under oath declare those documents recovered from MAL are classified.

Take a guess why his lawyers WON'T do that. They should feel free testifying to that. Trump said he did.
Ok?
I don't have a side in this, but I'm interested, so I read stuff. It isn't easy to find information that isn't politically twisted. This is why I want to see the issue go to court. If Trump committed a crime then lets have a trial and a sentencing. If he didn't, then it's time move on.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,623
49,185
136
Ok?
I don't have a side in this, but I'm interested, so I read stuff. It isn't easy to find information that isn't politically twisted. This is why I want to see the issue go to court. If Trump committed a crime then lets have a trial and a sentencing. If he didn't, then it's time move on.
Serious question - what remotely likely mitigating circumstances can you think of that would make this not a crime?
 

Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,771
2,319
136
It's already twisted by being in the hands of this unqualified and biased judge. She is a member of the Federalist Society, which (along with the fact that she is female and relatively young and attractive) is why Trump would appoint her.

Trump will walk away from this without so much of a fine, and it certainly won't stop him from winning in 2024. He'll just add another line to his retribution list. It'll be time to be really worried if I was any of the FBI people in this case that were doing their jobs to uphold the law.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
I'm not sure the DOJ will follow through with appeal. They are certainly hoping that Judge Cannon will allow the FBI access to the classified materials while reserving the special master for everything else. This makes plain sense. It sounds quite compelling given the counterintelligence function of the FBI that they are essential component of the intelligence community protecting national security here. If the judge sticks with the original ruling, I'll be very interested in hearing under what logic Trump could have a claim to ownership of classified materials. It's easier to imagine that everything else could include government records or personal records or attorney-client privileged records, but classified records always belong to the government.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,573
5,291
136
Serious question - what remotely likely mitigating circumstances can you think of that would make this not a crime?
That would depend on which version of the law I read and what is actually in those folders. The picture of the folders laying on the floor marked "TOP SECRET" is nice piece of theater, and meaningless. What's in the folders is what's important. If it turns out those are the nuclear launch codes that I've seen mentioned, it doesn't matter at all because I'm absolutely certain they change those when a new president takes office.
The content and the reason for taking the stuff is what matters. We need a trial to force that information into the public view. I'm all for taking the guy down if he committed a crime, but I can find perfectly reasonable explanations for why it's treason or a nothing burger.

A trial is what we need. Discovery, a judge, a jury, reporters, TV cameras. Let's do the whole thing right out in front of the entire nation.
 

NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,965
2,571
136
That would depend on which version of the law I read and what is actually in those folders. The picture of the folders laying on the floor marked "TOP SECRET" is nice piece of theater, and meaningless. What's in the folders is what's important. If it turns out those are the nuclear launch codes that I've seen mentioned, it doesn't matter at all because I'm absolutely certain they change those when a new president takes office.
The content and the reason for taking the stuff is what matters. We need a trial to force that information into the public view. I'm all for taking the guy down if he committed a crime, but I can find perfectly reasonable explanations for why it's treason or a nothing burger.

A trial is what we need. Discovery, a judge, a jury, reporters, TV cameras. Let's do the whole thing right out in front of the entire nation.
You mean like all the documents that where laid out next to those folders, which where whited out so we can't see what they said since they are confidential? Please, for once, stop acting so naïve and ignorant..
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,645
10,503
136
That would depend on which version of the law I read and what is actually in those folders. The picture of the folders laying on the floor marked "TOP SECRET" is nice piece of theater, and meaningless. What's in the folders is what's important. If it turns out those are the nuclear launch codes that I've seen mentioned, it doesn't matter at all because I'm absolutely certain they change those when a new president takes office.
The content and the reason for taking the stuff is what matters. We need a trial to force that information into the public view. I'm all for taking the guy down if he committed a crime, but I can find perfectly reasonable explanations for why it's treason or a nothing burger.

A trial is what we need. Discovery, a judge, a jury, reporters, TV cameras. Let's do the whole thing right out in front of the entire nation.
Just stop. So you are promoting Trump's propaganda about an evidence photo. I'm done. Disingenuous!
 

Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,771
2,319
136
If those were actually nuclear launch codes (obsolete or not), and a Joe Schmoe like me had their empty folders, what I wonder would happen to me?

I'd probably be in a tiled room "answering questions".

Much worse than the nuclear stuff would be information on assets around the world. That could literally get people killed and tortured and hurt our intelligence gathering in a big way.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,623
49,185
136
That would depend on which version of the law I read and what is actually in those folders. The picture of the folders laying on the floor marked "TOP SECRET" is nice piece of theater, and meaningless. What's in the folders is what's important. If it turns out those are the nuclear launch codes that I've seen mentioned, it doesn't matter at all because I'm absolutely certain they change those when a new president takes office.
Sorry I'm not sure I understand you - can you explain? We know with certainty that Trump had highly classified documents in his possession. Are you saying that if the highly classified documents contained things you don't think should have been classified it's legal to take them? Or is it that Trump only had folders marked this way and the contents had been otherwise misplaced?

The content and the reason for taking the stuff is what matters. We need a trial to force that information into the public view. I'm all for taking the guy down if he committed a crime, but I can find perfectly reasonable explanations for why it's treason or a nothing burger.

A trial is what we need. Discovery, a judge, a jury, reporters, TV cameras. Let's do the whole thing right out in front of the entire nation.
1) The content is classified information. It doesn't matter what that classified material is, unlawful possession of it is a crime. Agree?
2) In the course of a trial you aren't going to get the contents of those classified documents. They are classified for a reason!
3) Can you give me a remotely plausible reason Trump could have taken those documents that would make his possession of them legal?
 

DarthKyrie

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2016
1,533
1,282
146
If those were actually nuclear launch codes (obsolete or not), and a Joe Schmoe like me had their empty folders, what I wonder would happen to me?

I'd probably be in a tiled room "answering questions".

Much worse than the nuclear stuff would be information on assets around the world. That could literally get people killed and tortured and hurt our intelligence gathering in a big way.

The CIA has already said that assets around the world have been killed or have gone missing since January 20, 2017, at an alarming rate. What could have possibly occurred on that day?
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,274
4,566
136
That would depend on which version of the law I read and what is actually in those folders. The picture of the folders laying on the floor marked "TOP SECRET" is nice piece of theater, and meaningless. What's in the folders is what's important. If it turns out those are the nuclear launch codes that I've seen mentioned, it doesn't matter at all because I'm absolutely certain they change those when a new president takes office.
The content and the reason for taking the stuff is what matters. We need a trial to force that information into the public view. I'm all for taking the guy down if he committed a crime, but I can find perfectly reasonable explanations for why it's treason or a nothing burger.

A trial is what we need. Discovery, a judge, a jury, reporters, TV cameras. Let's do the whole thing right out in front of the entire nation.

It doesn’t matter if top secret Area 51 documents or recipe for George Washington’s favourite stew. Why apparently you’re smarter than everyone else to see to be able to determine which top secret matters, an useful idiot indeed
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,623
49,185
136
It doesn’t matter if top secret Area 51 documents or recipe for George Washington’s favourite stew. Why apparently you’re smarter than everyone else to see to be able to determine which top secret matters, an useful idiot indeed
The only defense Trump has is that he didn’t know he had classified documents in his possession. Given the sequence of events that seems almost impossible to believe.

So again this should be a reasonably easy question to answer. How is Trump not guilty?
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,253
28,107
136
That would depend on which version of the law I read and what is actually in those folders. The picture of the folders laying on the floor marked "TOP SECRET" is nice piece of theater, and meaningless. What's in the folders is what's important. If it turns out those are the nuclear launch codes that I've seen mentioned, it doesn't matter at all because I'm absolutely certain they change those when a new president takes office.
The content and the reason for taking the stuff is what matters. We need a trial to force that information into the public view. I'm all for taking the guy down if he committed a crime, but I can find perfectly reasonable explanations for why it's treason or a nothing burger.

A trial is what we need. Discovery, a judge, a jury, reporters, TV cameras. Let's do the whole thing right out in front of the entire nation.
What is this version of the law?

There is only one version of the Presidential Records Act, and it says Trump is entitled to NONE of these documents irrespective of classification.

What we are dealing with is theft. Some of the stolen property being top secret classified documents is a separate crime in addition to theft.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,796
10,221
136
That would depend on which version of the law I read and what is actually in those folders. The picture of the folders laying on the floor marked "TOP SECRET" is nice piece of theater, and meaningless. What's in the folders is what's important. If it turns out those are the nuclear launch codes that I've seen mentioned, it doesn't matter at all because I'm absolutely certain they change those when a new president takes office.
The content and the reason for taking the stuff is what matters. We need a trial to force that information into the public view. I'm all for taking the guy down if he committed a crime, but I can find perfectly reasonable explanations for why it's treason or a nothing burger.

A trial is what we need. Discovery, a judge, a jury, reporters, TV cameras. Let's do the whole thing right out in front of the entire nation.
It doesn't matter what the content is, it is illegal to store classified documents in your house. I can't just read a TS document and decide "Oh, this stuff isn't actually important, I'm going to take it home with me, when I am fired from my job."

Just admit it, in your eyes no republican can ever do anything wrong. And you feign ignorance to support your position.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
After watching that video, which BTW contains a far more thorough analysis than what I've read in the press, I think what's going to happen is that, in response to DoJ's Motion for Partial Stay, the judge will partially reverse her order for a special master, saying it now only applies to the non-classified documents. The appeal will proceed on the newly modified order, but DoJ is free to continue investigating, and possibly charging, Trump in relation to the classified documents.

I don't see Trump responding by saying that he owns those documents. Even he and his mediocre lawyers aren't that dumb. He'll probably just respond to the motion with another filing containing no affidavits, meaning no evidence, just like what he did with his Motion for Special Master.

Which is another reason that her ruling in Trump's favor on that motion was so weird. If Trump was claiming ownership of anything in that motion, even just the non-classified documents, he cannot make such an assertion without any testimony. Arguments from counsel in briefs are not evidence.
 
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