News Trump: Mar-a-Lago just raided by FBI

[HomerJS]

Trump speaks fluent Hitlerish.

What do you mean, ish?

 

[pmv]

Nope, he has no "empathy" whatsoever. HIS "resentment" has to do with his pure narcissism, which in turn gives him a sense of entitlement. So when anyone criticizes him or opposes him in any way, he lashes out. Because he's a spoiled brat who never grew up.

But since he entered politics as a republican, he lashes out at people that conservative voters have been programmed through years of propaganda to despise, which is why they like him. Their "resentment," however, is based on a sense of in-group and out-group identity, i.e. tribalism.

Trump himself is casually racist the way many men of his generation are, but this is not at all core to his identity. He'll embrace any black person who slobbers at his feet or is useful for any reason. He has no group identify, no sense of kinship with any group. He attacks the people that conservatives hate, but he isn't one of them. They think he is, but it's a con.

Please do not use Trump in the same sentence with "empathy." You might want to bone up on your DSM-V.

9 Signs of Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Having narcissistic tendencies are normal when they occur occasionally. Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is different. Symptoms are more severe, occur across different situations and environments, and make relationships with others challenging, if not impossible.

www.dukehealth.org

That the cause of his resentment is not the same as that of his cult members is, in practice, besides the point. It still helps him attract their votes, because it comes instinctively to him to say what they want to hear. His personal dysfunctions happen to nicely fit with the dysfunctions of the country as a whole (or at least did, at one moment in history).


And as an aside, don't get me started on the DSM. It strikes me as being an insane, OCD-like, attempt to categorise and label every possible form of human suffering and dysfunction, in the context of a constantly changing socio-political context. They never stop reorganising it and shuffling the categories around, year-after-year, as they attempt to scratch that itch to classify and categorise the contingent chaos that is human existence. (For the purposes of creating revenue-streams - with the side-effect of depoliticising things like the rise of Trump, and thus letting the powerful and the system that benefits them off the hook.)

It seems kind-of mad to me, and is one reason among many why I distrust the mental health industry.

 

[woolfe9998]

That the cause of his resentment is not the same as that of his cult members is, in practice, besides the point. It still helps him attract their votes, because it comes instinctively to him to say what they want to hear. His personal dysfunctions happen to nicely fit with the dysfunctions of the country as a whole (or at least did, at one moment in history).


And as an aside, don't get me started on the DSM. It strikes me as being an insane, OCD-like, attempt to categorise and label every possible form of human suffering and dysfunction, in the context of a constantly changing socio-political context. They never stop reorganising it and shuffling the categories around, year-after-year, as they attempt to scratch that itch to classify and categorise the contingent chaos that is human existence. (For the purposes of creating revenue-streams - with the side-effect of depoliticising things like the rise of Trump, and thus letting the powerful and the system that benefits them off the hook.)

It seems kind-of mad to me, and is one reason among many why I distrust the mental health industry.

I agree that his dysfunctions happen to be a nice fit. His coarseness and his lack of verbal articulation skills also fit quite well. Because these people are on the whole poorly educated and they think politicians are talking down to them, so they mistake his low verbal intelligence for "plain speaking."

But where I know you're wrong is in your assumption that Trump can somehow read these people, be it because of empathy or something else. Not because of DSM, though if you read those criteria, you'll see that Trump has literally all of them, and in spades. But because I've personally known, and worked with for years, two people who are pathological narcissists, one of whom told me she was diagnosed with it long after I figured out that she had it.

Narcissists do not really see others. They are the poorest of all at reading people because they never take the time to carefully observe them. Moods, body language, subtleties, what people really mean when they say ___. They have no clue. That is why they will sometimes say inappropriate or outrageous things then wonder why people are offended. Because they cannot gauge reactions.

If you're wondering why a person I know actually told me her shrink had diagnosed her with pathological narcissism, that's why. She liked to talk about herself, and never understood when she was oversharing. It's also why Trump will sometimes blurt out admissions, like saying on TV that he fired Comey over the Russia investigation, because he thinks he's "right" and doesn't understand that others won't see it that way.

Trump is not just another selfish person who is clever at manipulating people to get what he wants. Trump is actually quite broken, and manipulable.

 

[Brovane]

After watching this I just shake my head. That things are this broken in the Republican party that they still support the guy.

What Iowa Republicans are thinking after Trump's federal indictment

 

[pmv]

I agree that his dysfunctions happen to be a nice fit. His coarseness and his lack of verbal articulation skills also fit quite well. Because these people are on the whole poorly educated and they think politicians are talking down to them, so they mistake his low verbal intelligence for "plain speaking."

Funny, as I was going to mention that - that he also struggles with constructing intelligible English sentences and for some reason that is another attractive characteristic for the US right. Decided to stay away from it lest it trigger some of that very 'resentment' and made me sound like part of the "metropolitan elite" (something I've been accused of on various forums, when it could hardly be further from the truth).

But where I know you're wrong is in your assumption that Trump can somehow read these people, be it because of empathy or something else. Not because of DSM, though if you read those criteria, you'll see that Trump has literally all of them, and in spades. But because I've personally known, and worked with for years, two people who are pathological narcissists, one of whom told me she was diagnosed with it long after I figured out that she had it.

Well, whether his political successes are due to 'reading ' people or just coincidentally happening to embody some of their outlook is immaterial, it seems to me. He was the right guy for the moment, hence his victory. Had he been smarter (as his German predecessor was) he probably could have gotten a lot more mileage out of it and caused much longer-lasting damage.

Narcissists do not really see others. They are the poorest of all at reading people because they never take the time to carefully observe them. Moods, body language, subtleties, what people really mean when they say ___. They have no clue. That is why they will sometimes say inappropriate or outrageous things then wonder why people are offended. Because they cannot gauge reactions. If you're wondering why a person I know actually told me her shrink had diagnosed her with pathological narcissism, that's why. She liked to talk about herself, and never understood when she was oversharing.

Trump is not a "selfish" person who is clever at manipulating people to get what he wants. Trump is actually quite broken, and manipulable.

Yeah, maybe. I've known a _lot_ of people with diagnosed personality disorders (mostly 'borderline'), and a lot more people who I suspect had/have them undiagnosed (mostly the anti-social ones). I'm just not entirely convinced by the rigour of the whole concept of PDs. They seem quite fuzzy, half-way between a supposed mental illness and a subjective moral judgement. They seem to be based on generalising from symptoms, rather than underlying mechanisms.

I'm particularly suspicious of how much the accusation of "narcissism" and NPD gets thrown around in current discourse, especially in the US. It seems of-a-piece with the US determination to depoliticise everything, to recast all social, political and economic issues as purely individual psychological ones.

 

[woolfe9998]

Yeah, maybe. I've known a _lot_ of people with diagnosed personality disorders (mostly 'borderline'), and a lot more people who I suspect had/have them undiagnosed (mostly the anti-social ones). I'm just not entirely convinced by the rigour of the whole concept of PDs. They seem quite fuzzy, half-way between a supposed mental illness and a subjective moral judgement. They seem to be based on generalising from symptoms, rather than underlying mechanisms.

I'm particularly suspicious of how much the accusation of "narcissism" and NPD gets thrown around in current discourse, especially in the US. It seems of-a-piece with the US determination to depoliticise everything, to recast all social, political and economic issues as purely individual psychological ones.

Well, defending DSM and the concept of "personality disorders" wasn't really my point. But I'll briefly reply. I think your concerns have to do with personality disorders being so fundamentally different from other disorders is that it isn't some mood dysfunction like depression, anxiety, PTSD etc. where it may be caused by a chemical imbalance or a traumatic experience. It's your core personality. That's why you think it's a moral judgment. But it isn't, not from the standpoint of the profession. They are saying, you have a personality trait that is causing you and others around you harm. That it shares in common with other disorders. What it doesn't share in common is that because it's so ingrained, it's difficult to impossible to treat. The fact that it is so ingrained and immutable leaves most of us with nothing other than to call the person an asshole. But that isn't why it's identified by the profession.

The term is now used politically because of Donald Trump, period. I've heard it rarely used in politics before in reference to politicians of an opposing party, but it's never been so common as now. Look, Trump has all 9 characteristics. The narcissist I mentioned before - I had looked it up and in my opinion, she had 7, possibly 8, of the 9 listed characteristics. Anyway, it isn't a coincidence that an individual could have all 9 characteristics. Because those characteristics were identified from extensive clinical experience and observation as things which tend to go together.

 

[fskimospy]

Well, defending DSM and the concept of "personality disorders" wasn't really my point. But I'll briefly reply. I think your concerns have to do with personality disorders being so fundamentally different from other disorders is that it isn't some mood dysfunction like depression, anxiety, PTSD etc. where it may be caused by a chemical imbalance or a traumatic experience. It's your core personality. That's why you think it's a moral judgment. But it isn't, not from the standpoint of the profession. They are saying, you have a personality trait that is causing you and others around you harm. That it shares in common with other disorders. What it doesn't share in common is that because it's so ingrained, it's difficult to impossible to treat. The fact that it is so ingrained and immutable leaves most of us with nothing other than to call the person an asshole. But that isn't why it's identified by the profession.

The term is now used politically because of Donald Trump, period. I've heard it rarely used in politics before in reference to politicians of an opposing party, but it's never been so common as now. Look, Trump has all 9 characteristics. The narcissist I mentioned before - I had looked it up and in my opinion, she had 7, possibly 8, of the 9 listed characteristics. Anyway, it isn't a coincidence that an individual could have all 9 characteristics. Because those characteristics were identified from extensive clinical experience and observation as things which tend to go together.

Yes I've heard psychiatry professors say that he will be an extremely helpful textbook case, especially because they thought if they made someone up who acted just like Trump students would not find it believable because he's such a caricature.

 

[hal2kilo]

I just can't believe he stiffed everyone who showed up at Versailles. /s

Trump promised "food" at Miami cafe but "no one got anything": report

Trump stopped at the renowned Miami restaurant to pray with fans after his arraignment.

www.salon.com

 

[pmv]

The term is now used politically because of Donald Trump, period. I've heard it rarely used in politics before in reference to politicians of an opposing party, but it's never been so common as now. Look, Trump has all 9 characteristics. The narcissist I mentioned before - I had looked it up and in my opinion, she had 7, possibly 8, of the 9 listed characteristics. Anyway, it isn't a coincidence that an individual could have all 9 characteristics. Because those characteristics were identified from extensive clinical experience and observation as things which tend to go together.

It's not just politically, though. (And in that regard I recall some conservatives wrote an entire book accusing Michael Moore of having NPD - in an obviously-politically-motivated attempt at character assassination - plus I remember Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson's "Against Therapy" mentioning in passing that members of the Freud Institute had a habit of diagnosing each other as being "narcissists" in the course of their internal small-p political disputes).

it's more that it just seems to be commonplace now for every American who's had a bad break-up and/or fallen out with their ex- to declare that said ex- had NPD. I've seen it in multiple internet posts and newspaper interviews with people. It seems to be a general fashion now that if you don't get on with someone you decide they have NPD.

Conversely, I have known many folk who I'm sure had some kind of PD, albeit undiagnosed, probably the anti-social ones (committing multiple serious crimes is probably a sign of it - though for some people I've known I reckon they'd have had to invent a whole new category of PD to fit them).

And from what I can see, the definition of PDs has changed and mutated over the decades, as changing social norms changed what was considered a 'disorder'. They even abolished one entirely at one point.

I mean, the contemporary US seems notable for the degree of narcissism it positively _requires_ of people, in order to get anywhere in life, compared to many other cultures and past eras. After all, if you have enough of it they make you President. So who decides how much constitutes a 'disorder'?

I mean, I don't think one has to be a psychiatrist to see there's something not right about Trump, and 'narcissist' is also a common English word, not solely a technical term, so I don't fundamentally disagree with regard to that guy.

I just think think the whole issue is less scientifically rigorous than it is made out to be. The people I've known with BPD, for example, were all very different individuals, who just had a few personality traits in common, most glaringly the capacity to turn emotionally on a sixpence, (most had experienced severe abuse in childhood - but not quite the same experiences in every case). But it very much depended how you described them and which traits you chose to focus on. Really they were all very different from each other.

It seems to me it's as if you diagnosed everyone who had trouble getting around as having "mobility disorder", regardless of if their underlying problem was a broken leg, pneumonia, MS or just being too broke to afford transport costs.

 

[Sunburn74]

I do wish all the media would stop blatantly incorrectly listing his charges in headlines. He has precisely 0 charges related to mishandling "classified" information, which every single headline seems to start with.

He is charged with retaining unauthorized possession of documents "related to the national defense". For the crime, it doesn't matter one bit whether or not they were classified . All the false claims by Trump and his mouthpieces that he declassified them is completely irrelevant to the charges.

To wit, the bulk (31) of the charges are under: 18 U.S.C. 793(e), emphasis added:

"(e)Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it; "
...
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

They have him by the balls. It'd also why Biden and pence aren't facing any charges.

To this day I can't figure out why on earth he wouldn't simply give the documents over when asked? What did he gain by trying to keep them?

 

[pmv]

To this day I can't figure out why on earth he wouldn't simply give the documents over when asked? What did he gain by trying to keep them?

Not to mention that keeping them all cluttered up his entire place. Seems as if he had boxes stacked everywhere. Got to be some sort of compulsion, no?

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

He's explained many, many times why he kept them. He hasn't denied doing so at all. His reasoning is that he's entitled to keep them as his 'presidential papers' and no one should be questioning that.

 

[SMOGZINN]

They have him by the balls. It'd also why Biden and pence aren't facing any charges.

To this day I can't figure out why on earth he wouldn't simply give the documents over when asked? What did he gain by trying to keep them?

He thought he was untouchable. I don't know what he wanted them for, my guess is he felt that they were his because he stole them fair and square.

 

[pete6032]

Not to mention that keeping them all cluttered up his entire place. Seems as if he had boxes stacked everywhere. Got to be some sort of compulsion, no?

Compulsion likely. He has other compulsory behaviors. Believe it or not he is a huge germaphobe. https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/07/donald-trump-germaphobe-1399258

 

[fskimospy]

He's explained many, many times why he kept them. He hasn't denied doing so at all. His reasoning is that he's entitled to keep them as his 'presidential papers' and no one should be questioning that.

My favorite part is he has also claimed the FBI planted them. As usual he couldn’t care less that his two lies are mutually exclusive.

 

[MtnMan]

They have him by the balls. It'd also why Biden and pence aren't facing any charges.

To this day I can't figure out why on earth he wouldn't simply give the documents over when asked? What did he gain by trying to keep them?

Did two different people type the two sentences above, or do you have the attention span of a goldfish*?

* - it's less than 3 seconds, in case you were wondering.

 

[pmv]

Compulsion likely. He has other compulsory behaviors. Believe it or not he is a huge germaphobe. https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/07/donald-trump-germaphobe-1399258

The president’s hatred of involuntary bacterial emissions burst into the open last month when his acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, started coughing in the Oval Office while ABC’s George Stephanopoulos was interviewing Trump. “I don’t like that, you know. I don’t like that. If you’re going to cough, please, leave the room,” Trump said before shaking his head.

Weird contrast to his refusal to wear a mask for COVID. He's scared of other people's germs but fine with spreading his own around? Or is he scared of bacteria but fine with viruses? He's just a strange man all-round.

 

[pete6032]

Weird contrast to his refusal to wear a mask for COVID. He's scared of other people's germs but fine with spreading his own around? Or is he scared of bacteria but fine with viruses? He's just a strange man all-round.

I think he was more scared of losing his base than he was of germs? That's a very strange article to read in a post covid world for sure.

 

[interchange]

The biggest problem is that he doesn't listen to people with a lick of sense and has plenty of people in his ear that are willing to tell him what he wants to hear instead. In this case Tom Fitton.

 

[Muse]

I just can't believe he stiffed everyone who showed up at Versailles. /s

Trump promised "food" at Miami cafe but "no one got anything": report

Trump stopped at the renowned Miami restaurant to pray with fans after his arraignment.

www.salon.com

Yeah, they showed that video on TV news last night, OTA. They didn't add that nobody got anything. It's no surprise to me, though. He looked half hearted. What do you expect? The man has no heart.

 

[Muse]

They have him by the balls. It'd also why Biden and pence aren't facing any charges.

To this day I can't figure out why on earth he wouldn't simply give the documents over when asked? What did he gain by trying to keep them?

He refused to believe he lost the election (solid evidence of severe PD). He figured surrendering the documents was admitting that he wasn't entitled to to be POTUS. As good an explanation as I think you can muster. Now, the fact that he ignored anything remotely resembling properly protecting the documents you can attribute to his very low IQ.

 

[sportage]

Dogs and cats, cats and dogs.
Let's face it folks, democrats and republicans will never get along, never again. Both sides have dug-in and thats just the way it is, and forever will be. Democrats will hate Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis and house republicans until the end of time and republicans will hate Biden and Pelosi and woke and all democrats until the end of time as well.

Dogs will never live by cat rules, and cats will never live by dog rules. It just doesn't happen.
So I guess we find ourselves within a never-ending battle. One side against the other side. Neither side will ever convince the other of anything no matter the facts, the audio recordings, the video recordings, or the number of boxes.

Looking back into history, I wonder what it would take to reunite Americans back into one America? Or if that is even possible? Would it take an incident of mass destruction oh say some pandemic 1000 times deadlier than Covid or the Black Plague of the 1300s? Or how about nuclear war, with entire American cities wiped off the face of the earth? Or how about space aliens? What if some ungodly ugly gross looking space aliens landed on earth tomorrow morning? Space aliens with a taste for flesh? Would that bring America back together? Survival?

I believe we are destine to be divided forever, and the division will grow to extremes. Democrats having nothing to do with republicans and vise versa.
Think about it. Think about the hate. If democrats could hang maga by the neck until dead and justify it, and get away with it, then why not? And I'm sure they feel the very same about the democrats and the woke. As they say... better dead than RED ALIVE.

 

[amenx]

Top secret info not only compromised by the haphazard storage of the documents, but by spouting his mouth off in the WH to foreign dignitaries and the press:

Within four months of entering the White House, Trump boasted to the Russian foreign minister and the Russian ambassador visiting the Oval Office that the U.S. was receiving intelligence from a source within an Islamic State terrorist cell. Because Russia was and is an ally of Iran, Israel was forced to assume that its source had been compromised.

Two years later, Trump taunted Iran for a launch-pad rocket explosion in a Twitter post. He included an image showing the damage ― a high-resolution image that revealed to the whole world the capability of the latest generation of U.S. photo reconnaissance satellites that cover most of the planet from an altitude of about 200 miles.

Asked about his decision to include the photo, Trump told reporters: “We had a photo and I released it, which I have the absolute right to do.”

I dont think the U.S. has ever seen a more idiotic POTUS in its history.

'Horrifying': Intel Experts Fear The Human Costs Of Trump's Document Handling

Some of the compromised documents seized at his Florida country club included information from intel officers and foreign agents working on behalf of the U.S.

www.huffpost.com

 

[dank69]

Top secret info not only compromised by the haphazard storage of the documents, but by spouting his mouth off in the WH to foreign dignitaries and the press:

Within four months of entering the White House, Trump boasted to the Russian foreign minister and the Russian ambassador visiting the Oval Office that the U.S. was receiving intelligence from a source within an Islamic State terrorist cell. Because Russia was and is an ally of Iran, Israel was forced to assume that its source had been compromised.

Two years later, Trump taunted Iran for a launch-pad rocket explosion in a Twitter post. He included an image showing the damage ― a high-resolution image that revealed to the whole world the capability of the latest generation of U.S. photo reconnaissance satellites that cover most of the planet from an altitude of about 200 miles.

Asked about his decision to include the photo, Trump told reporters: “We had a photo and I released it, which I have the absolute right to do.”

I dont think the U.S. has ever seen a more idiotic POTUS in its history.

'Horrifying': Intel Experts Fear The Human Costs Of Trump's Document Handling

Some of the compromised documents seized at his Florida country club included information from intel officers and foreign agents working on behalf of the U.S.

www.huffpost.com

And nobody could have seen it coming.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Yes I've heard psychiatry professors say that he will be an extremely helpful textbook case, especially because they thought if they made someone up who acted just like Trump students would not find it believable because he's such a caricature.

It's also great because there's like hundreds of hours of video of him in non-clinical settings to pull observations data from. That's damn near impossible even in a best case scenario with any other patient.