Trump NY Criminal Trial

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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,567
5,291
136
This guy is going to be very confused when those things don’t happen. (Except the delays, which are unfortunately real)
I've seen a lot of very confident and opposing opinion's on the vast array of Trumps legal issues. The opinions are varied that it's hard to believe that they're all about the same subject.
In the world of journalism, expert opinion now means "paid shill", it's discouraging to the point that I've given up even trying to follow it, which may be the entire reason for it.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,623
49,185
136
I've seen a lot of very confident and opposing opinion's on the vast array of Trumps legal issues. The opinions are varied that it's hard to believe that they're all about the same subject.
In the world of journalism, expert opinion now means "paid shill", it's discouraging to the point that I've given up even trying to follow it, which may be the entire reason for it.
That’s definitely true for conservative media because that’s the point - to tell conservatives comforting lies. Oddly and disappointingly the secondary purpose of conservative media is to convince their consumers that the rest of the media is somehow a mirror image, which it is not.

Conservative media wins when they either convince you of their viewpoint or, as in this case, make you throw your arms up and say it’s all bad and there’s no way to know. This is similar to how Russian propaganda works where the goal of the ‘firehose of falsehood’ is not necessarily to make you agree with them, but to decide it’s impossible to know the truth.

In reality we both know Trump is guilty, and in this case, and if others are allowed to go to the facts he will be found guilty in those too. The evidence in the case is overwhelming.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,623
49,185
136
I don't know Trump is guilty. At this point the answer to that question depends on who you ask.
Yes, you’re doing exactly what conservative media tells you to do.

If you would like to explain how Trump is plausibly not guilty in his current trial or say, in the documents trial I’m very open to having that discussion. I find it highly unlikely you will be willing or able to do this though because you know as well as I do that he’s guilty.
 
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BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,308
11,674
136
bullshit. why do you keep lying to yourself like this?

No, he’s correct. Trump MIGHT be guilty…I think he is, but if you’re right-leaning, it might be a librul witch hunt against the greatest president to ever hold the office.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,567
5,291
136
Yes, you’re doing exactly what conservative media tells you to do.

If you would like to explain how Trump is plausibly not guilty in his current trial or say, in the documents trial I’m very open to having that discussion. I find it highly unlikely you will be willing or able to do this though because you know as well as I do that he’s guilty.
I made a simple statement of fact, I don't know that Trump is guilty. That's an accurate statement and I'm sorry if it doesn't fit the conclusions you've already reached.
I also wonder why you think I would choose to debate legal matters that aren't settled? This stuff isn't my life, I don't hang on every word muttered about Trump, and I'm sure as hell not going to dive into a never ending debate about it. The reason for that is most people and most media have already decided on his guilt or innocence, just like you. No discussion is going to change that, and political masturbation just ain't my thing.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,623
49,185
136
I made a simple statement of fact, I don't know that Trump is guilty. That's an accurate statement and I'm sorry if it doesn't fit the conclusions you've already reached.
I also wonder why you think I would choose to debate legal matters that aren't settled? This stuff isn't my life, I don't hang on every word muttered about Trump, and I'm sure as hell not going to dive into a never ending debate about it. The reason for that is most people and most media have already decided on his guilt or innocence, just like you. No discussion is going to change that, and political masturbation just ain't my thing.
There’s no need to debate here - I’m just interested as to why given the publicly available information that I’m certain you’re aware of, you doubt his guilt. I mean it’s not exactly a complicated affair.

This is a very easy question to answer but I strongly suspect you will not do so.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,534
12,658
146
I made a simple statement of fact, I don't know that Trump is guilty. That's an accurate statement and I'm sorry if it doesn't fit the conclusions you've already reached.
I also wonder why you think I would choose to debate legal matters that aren't settled? This stuff isn't my life, I don't hang on every word muttered about Trump, and I'm sure as hell not going to dive into a never ending debate about it. The reason for that is most people and most media have already decided on his guilt or innocence, just like you. No discussion is going to change that, and political masturbation just ain't my thing.
He's literally admitted, on live, recorded television, statements of guilt with intent regarding actions that are crimes in the United States of America. I do not know how one can be more clear about this.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,308
15,102
136
You guys don’t remember? We’ve had this discussion before. If it’s someone on the right that’s accused of committing a crime, they aren’t guilty unless they get convicted, even if the crime is witnessed first hand by everyone. If someone on the left is accused of committing a crime, the act of accusing is enough to warrant being guilty in the mind of a righty, even if the person on the left hasn’t been charged with a crime and no actual evidence exists.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,915
8,656
136
The reason for that is most people and most media have already decided on his guilt or innocence, just like you.
Maybe its because the people who have decided that he's guilty is that they have been paying attention to whats going on?
 
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thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,904
2,122
126
There’s no need to debate here - I’m just interested as to why given the publicly available information that I’m certain you’re aware of, you doubt his guilt. I mean it’s not exactly a complicated affair.

This is a very easy question to answer but I strongly suspect you will not do so.
Haven't you heard? There was no Russian interference either!
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,671
2,114
126
I made a simple statement of fact, I don't know that Trump is guilty. That's an accurate statement and I'm sorry if it doesn't fit the conclusions you've already reached.
I also wonder why you think I would choose to debate legal matters that aren't settled? This stuff isn't my life, I don't hang on every word muttered about Trump, and I'm sure as hell not going to dive into a never ending debate about it. The reason for that is most people and most media have already decided on his guilt or innocence, just like you. No discussion is going to change that, and political masturbation just ain't my thing.
This is such an odd line you've drawn with Trump, and only Trump.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,623
49,185
136
This is such an odd line you've drawn with Trump, and only Trump.
I think the primary issue is that conservatives spent years saying liberal criticism of Trump was hysterical, partisan, Trump derangement syndrome, whatever.

Admitting that he is in fact a huge criminal amounts to admitting the liberals were right all along, and that’s not something conservatives can bring themselves to do.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,308
11,674
136
Just think…if NY and GA get their shit together and actually convict Trump…and <gawd forbid> sentence him to jail/prison, AND Trump wins the election…we could have the first President in US history whose inauguration is held inside the prison walls…and whose “Oval Office” is in an 8x12’ cell…

<sigh> if only.
 
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JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,765
911
126
I think the primary issue is that conservatives spent years saying liberal criticism of Trump was hysterical, partisan, Trump derangement syndrome, whatever.

Admitting that he is in fact a huge criminal amounts to admitting the liberals were right all along, and that’s not something conservatives can bring themselves to do.
It's rationalization at a group level. As their views clash with reality, they need to twist things in new ways to keep their world consistent.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,623
49,185
136
It's rationalization at a group level. As their views clash with reality, they need to twist things in new ways to keep their world consistent.
It seems to me to be an avoidance strategy to avoid experiencing uncomfortable thoughts and feelings. (Although I guess that’s similar)

Like does anyone actually think @Greenman has been so closed off from the news that he has no idea if Trump is guilty or not? Of course not. Admitting it carries a bunch of uncomfortable consequences though because then you have to question why other republicans you might want to vote for are defending a massive criminal. Easier to just say ‘who knows?!’
 
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