Trump NY Criminal Trial

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NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,975
2,579
136
Ironically that might be our jobs in the camps/reeducation centers!
Sounds like you ambitiously setting a life goal for yourself. I guess everyone has to have some ambition in life. Most chose a higher mark though. But, I guess you have to shoot for the mark you believe you can hit.

Good luck!
 

NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,975
2,579
136
Trump has appealed to have the conviction reversed and evidence thrown out based on his grand-slam in the Trump court decision - as he now enjoys complete and unconditional immunity for any acts remotely related to presidential activities while he was in the White House, which includes the period when all of the acts charged in New York occurred (all of the falsified business records and payments by Trump occurred while he was in office).

More specifically, the Trump ruling states that one may not question his motives for actions taken while president - and the motive that the payments were in furtherance of election fraud was a prominent claim by the prosecution, including in closing arguments.

The main hurdle will be whether Trump can get over the extremely low bar set by the Supreme Court to claim that this has a possibility of falling somewhere close to official acts of the President as opposed to the as yet undefined microscopic or possibly non-existent space left for "unofficial" acts by the president that he could still be prosecuted for. (As one specific example, any conversations with presidential advisors are a protected official act, no matter the topic, even if it was how to best get money from foreigners into Trump's businesses or how to complete a coup - those discussions are now completely protected and may not be considered criminal nor may such evidence ever be used or referenced in any criminal trial).

The only reason the conviction may stand is that Trump personally signed the checks - if he had directed anyone in the executive office to do so instead, that action would be protected activity that could no longer be criminally charged.
Even if he didn't sign the checks, his business records have zero connection to his official duties as a President. His Business is a private, non government owned entity. I don't see any path to connecting his business dealings, which includes business records, to his official Presidential duties.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,845
8,436
136
His NY conviction(s) will almost assuredly make it to SCOTUS. There is a non-zero chance they throw them out. Anything is possible with this court.
 
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eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,388
4,628
136
Even if he didn't sign the checks, his business records have zero connection to his official duties as a President. His Business is a private, non government owned entity. I don't see any path to connecting his business dealings, which includes business records, to his official Presidential duties.
As I said, it was because he did it in the Oval Office it was official act. Well that’s the excuse they’ll use. But oops, BJ in the oval are now official 🤣
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,845
8,436
136
As I said, it was because he did it in the Oval Office it was official act. Well that’s the excuse they’ll use. But oops, BJ in the oval are now official 🤣

I believe his attorneys cited the portions of the ruling about motives being inadmissible and using official acts as evidence.

If I had to guess, SCOTUS will throw out the verdict.
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,692
25,006
136
I believe his attorneys cited the portions of the ruling about motives being inadmissible and using official acts as evidence.

If I had to guess, SCOTUS will throw out the verdict.
I get it’s a Calvin ball court but signing checks for your personal business is not remotely an official act of the President it’s a personal activity with no relation to his duties as President.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,501
136
I believe his attorneys cited the portions of the ruling about motives being inadmissible and using official acts as evidence.

If I had to guess, SCOTUS will throw out the verdict.
I disagree, but not because of any coherent legal principle as we all know that’s out the window now. This just ensures nothing is happening with the case until after the election.

If Biden wins I bet they let the conviction stand because Trump is over politically. (Very hard to see him trying to run again in 2028 if he loses). Then the court is able to salvage some of its reputation by throwing him overboard.

If Trump wins the case is basically irrelevant anyway so it doesn’t matter what they do.
 
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Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,845
8,436
136
I get it’s a Calvin ball court but signing checks for your personal business is not remotely an official act of the President it’s a personal activity with no relation to his duties as President.

I agree, but the defense argument is that the prosecution used evidence in the trial that now appears to fall within the bounds of what the SCOTUS ruling has said is out of bounds.

Yes, it doesn't make any practical sense. We all know he's guilty and that it's not an official act, but the real world has nothign to do with the legal world anymore.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,845
8,436
136
I disagree, but not because of any coherent legal principle as we all know that’s out the window now. This just ensures nothing is happening with the case until after the election.

If Biden wins I bet they let the conviction stand because Trump is over politically. (Very hard to see him trying to run again in 2028 if he loses). Then the court is able to salvage some of its reputation by throwing him overboard.

If Trump wins the case is basically irrelevant anyway so it doesn’t matter what they do.

I mean that's possible. It can't possibly be heard until at least october (assuming it moves up the chain that fast and they grant cert).

Either way, there will almost assuredly be no final determination until after the election.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,388
4,628
136
I agree, but the defense argument is that the prosecution used evidence in the trial that now appears to fall within the bounds of what the SCOTUS ruling has said is out of bounds.

Yes, it doesn't make any practical sense. We all know he's guilty and that it's not an official act, but the real world has nothign to do with the legal world anymore.
Yup doubt the jurors put the entire case on Hope Hicks crying. As for legal reason by his lawyers, it won’t stop them from doing the chewbacca defense with he did it in the oval so it’s official.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,501
136
I mean that's possible. It can't possibly be heard until at least october (assuming it moves up the chain that fast and they grant cert).

Either way, there will almost assuredly be no final determination until after the election.
I would be shocked if that were to happen if for no other reason than the current opinion seems so utterly disinterested in resolving the issues it raised in a concrete way. It seems basically textbook designed to have the lower courts think about this for several months, have it appealed several times, and for SCOTUS to then soberly stroke their chins for six months or so before deciding anything.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,501
136
Yup doubt the jurors put the entire case on Hope Hicks crying. As for legal reason by his lawyers, it won’t stop them from doing the chewbacca defense with he did it in the oval so it’s official.
My first guess would be that maintaining the public image of the president is an important aspect of maintaining the dignity and authority of the office of the president and so therefore bribing porn stars to keep quiet was an official function.

Really though we all know now an 'official function' means 'a function carried out by a president the current judge likes'.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,692
25,006
136
You lack imagination.

I agree there's a non-zero chance it ends up on front of SCOTUS. From there they'll make up whatever rule they see fit.

Oh good god, that's just pissing away the money of the tax payers of MO for some virtue signaling.

Statement by the MO AG:

"Missouri has a huge problem with New York. Instead of letting presidential candidates campaign on their own merit, radical progressives in New York are trying to rig the 2024 election by waging a direct attack on our democratic processes ... I will not sit idly by while Soros-backed prosecutors hold Missouri voters hostage in this presidential election. I am filing suit to ensure that every Missourian can exercise their right to vote for the preferred presidential candidate."
 

JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,774
919
126
I'm not understanding how immunity means you can't use what he does as evidence. Wouldn't immunity mean charges can't be brought against him for what he did in office, not that what he did in office can't be entered as evidence?
 

Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
1,664
3,224
136
I'm not understanding how immunity means you can't use what he does as evidence. Wouldn't immunity mean charges can't be brought against him for what he did in office, not that what he did in office can't be entered as evidence?
The Supreme Court in its infinite wisdom decided simple immunity from any civil or criminal prosecution was insufficient for God-King Trump, and went on to give all of his divine presidential words and actions complete and total immunity from ever being used in court against him.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,501
136
I'm not understanding how immunity means you can't use what he does as evidence. Wouldn't immunity mean charges can't be brought against him for what he did in office, not that what he did in office can't be entered as evidence?
In a sane world, sure. Unfortunately that was not the SCOTUS ruling here, which is that for 'official acts':
1) the president from all criminal charges
2) his motive for engaging in those 'official acts' cannot be questioned, no matter how obviously corrupt
3) any 'official acts' the president takes cannot be used for evidence against him for any other crime

So basically if the president DID go order Seal Team 6 to assassinate his political rivals he can't be prosecuted for it, you can't ask why he did it, and if he was talking it over with the Secretary of Defense beforehand about how he can't wait to murder his rivals that cannot be used against him in any other proceeding.

You're probably thinking 'there's no way that's right, that's way too nuts' but, well, it is real.
 

Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
1,664
3,224
136
In a sane world, sure. Unfortunately that was not the SCOTUS ruling here, which is that for 'official acts':
1) the president from all criminal charges
2) his motive for engaging in those 'official acts' cannot be questioned, no matter how obviously corrupt
3) any 'official acts' the president takes cannot be used for evidence against him for any other crime

So basically if the president DID go order Seal Team 6 to assassinate his political rivals he can't be prosecuted for it, you can't ask why he did it, and if he was talking it over with the Secretary of Defense beforehand about how he can't wait to murder his rivals that cannot be used against him in any other proceeding.

You're probably thinking 'there's no way that's right, that's way too nuts' but, well, it is real.
The way I read it, Trump could publicly, during his State of the Union address (an official action...):
1) Openly announce his executive order for Seal Team 6 to go assassinate his rivals
2) Publicly thank the Saudis for their generous additional $1 billion bribe to his family in exchange for a transfer of secret documents and arms he was immediately approving under his discretionary authority
3) And announce a new public auction process for all Presidential pardons, with all proceeds going to Trump

Exercising official power of the office of the president, no matter how corruptly, is now always legal for the president. And he could not be charged, much less prosecuted, for any of those actions or statements. And none of his words in the SoTU speech could ever be used in court against him, for say later charges if he continued taking additional foreign bribes in exchange for secrets after leaving office.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,548
13,115
136
This is the single dumbest thing I have read from you. People want a quiet life so they vote for a raping, racist, felon, conman who cheated on all his wives and is blatant misogynist ? Trump believes sea level rise will increase beachfront property. That his level of dumb. Are you kidding me with this bullshit? You live in bizarre world. Your “quiet people” that want to vote for Trump are one or more of the above including you.
To be fair most them probably believe that is democratic propaganda lies and disinformation.
I mean, if you're in a cult do you know that you're in a cult?

You can be a nice emphatic person and still be in a cult.
 

APU_Fusion

Senior member
Dec 16, 2013
978
1,484
136
To be fair most them probably believe that is democratic propaganda lies and disinformation.
I mean, if you're in a cult do you know that you're in a cult?

You can be a nice emphatic person and still be in a cult.
Nods. Since that post I realized America is done because 35% of the people or more want it over. They want the earth daddy who is channeling the sky daddy to tell them how to live and feel while destroying the other that are taking away their sky daddy given right to be superior.

Until the brown shirts are taking their kids and the rivers on fire and the non Fatherland Churches are all burning down while the undersirables are being hung in town square they will continue to live in a fantasy world.

2024 and we are living in 900CE socially. Cause … Merica
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,548
13,115
136
Nods. Since that post I realized America is done because 35% of the people or more want it over. They want the earth daddy who is channeling the sky daddy to tell them how to live and feel while destroying the other that are taking away their sky daddy given right to be superior.

Until the brown shirts are taking their kids and the rivers on fire and the non Fatherland Churches are all burning down while the undersirables are being hung in town square they will continue to live in a fantasy world.

2024 and we are living in 900CE socially. Cause … Merica
I think your situation would dramatically improve within the first year of shutting Fox off.
 
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