Trump NY Criminal Trial

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
Not to mention that even within America we send governors and former governors to jail with relative frequency and it’s fine.

If the Republicans want to try and send Democrats to jail on BS charges as revenge there’s nothing we can do about that and it’s not a reason to do the wrong thing here.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,353
2,363
136
Any Republican that would replace Manchin is a dog turd. Manchin is a dog turd with a piece of grass sticking out. Yes, it’s possible to carry him by that grass to get stuff done whereas trying to lift any Republican replacement would would just get shit on your hand. I think folks understand that. Being a piece of shit with a handle is too low of bar for being a hero.

With his current announcement, replacing Sotomayor just became a much less sure bet.
Most folks here probably understand that.
But then you have a guy who would rather have that GOP Senator than Manchin. As they say, be careful what you wish for.


Ooof. I hope this gets more coverage.

While 9/12 read the NYT, none had AT P&N. Rigged!

#4 consumes no news, while #11 consumes only Google.
 
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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,525
27,829
136
I wonder if all the people who are so concerned about the prospect of prosecuting a former president thought about the consequences of letting presidents know they can commit crimes with impunity.
We've been living with that scenario since Ford pardoned Nixon. While I'm quite pleased to see Trump face the legal consequences of criminal activity he engaged in out of office, I'd be much more pleased to see a President face legal consequences for crimes committed while in office. At some point, we need to close the door on Ford's pardon.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,841
8,306
136
gothuevos isn't a new troll. He's been around a long time and is known to panic over the smallest things.
I wasn't calling him a troll so much as calling out his first post in the thread a troll. Very subtle distinction, and in some sense superfluous.

I realize he's been around, my comment was just pertaining to his sudden appearance in this thread and in particular his first post here AFAIK, yesterday, I believe. He was full of himself and had nothing substantive to add. I doubt he'd read the thread so far. WTH should we give a shit what he thinks, was my reaction. It was a troll!
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,699
6,196
126
I wasn't calling him a troll so much as calling out his first post in the thread a troll. Very subtle distinction, and in some sense superfluous.

I realize he's been around, my comment was just pertaining to his sudden appearance in this thread and in particular his first post here AFAIK, yesterday, I believe. He was full of himself and had nothing substantive to add. I doubt he'd read the thread so far. WTH should we give a shit what he thinks, was my reaction. It was a troll!
I don't think I have ever called anybody a Troll. In the first place that would mean I can tell when somebody is lying about what they believe and when somebody is stating what they actually believe but what they believe is a lie. How would you know one from the other. Would that not depend on what you personally believe about the other person and would what you believe about them relate to what you believe generally as to what the truth is. What I believe is that people believe things that I do not believe and that becomes an issue because I don't believe in anything which for me makes anybody who believes in anything a troll of some kind, no? So how can everybody be a troll but me and those who don't believe all the horse shit that people believe.

So for me it would take egotism to call people trolls. On the other hand I believe we are all the same and once you understand your own ego you understand ego generally.

What if it of the nature of ego to call people trolls in order to short circuit taking anybody else seriously. Can you imagine Trump not thinking that everybody lies just as he does. The only Truth that I would think he believes in is the one he makes up as he goes along. People who criticize Trump in Trumps mind can't hold a candle to him. Such is the nature of a narcissistic psychopath, seems to me. Isn't belief what we substitute for reality, how we ignore the fact that we know nothing at all.

So why do we need to call people trolls? Isn't it just projection? What is the difference between somebody who intentionally lies and someone who tells lies believing they know the truth. Don't both of them have to believe they know the truth when the truth is that nobody knows anything, that its all just inculcated belief?

Oh boy, suddenly out of nowhere I'm hearing the Beatles song about the fool on the hill.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,841
8,306
136
Troll (from a search): someone who leaves an intentionally annoying or offensive message on the internet, in order to upset someone or to get attention or cause trouble. a message that someone leaves on the internet that is intended to annoy people: A well-constructed troll will provoke irate or confused responses from flamers and newbies.
- -
I don't objectify particular people as trolls. I figure a message can be called a troll if the poster is trolling. Of course, someone who trolls (verb) could be considered a troll (noun), but they are only that when they are trolling, and obviously trolling is a part time job. Of course, someone who would lie when trolling is a particularly egregious troll(er). Just my thoughts.

Edit: gothuevos 1st post in this thread yesterday, qualifies as a troll due to his assertion that no GOP voter would not vote for Trump because of his felony convictions, while many people who would not have voted for him will now because he is a felon. That is obvious bullshit and concocted to get a rise out of posters here. He started off by saying:

Hard to gauge the electorate these days, but I bet a not insignificant number of voters may now vote for him just to "vote for a felon."

then continued:

You could argue this is offset by the number of GOP voters who would abandon Trump over a conviction. This number is probably 0. The "RINOs" left awhile ago already.


Troll!
 
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feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,577
4,659
136
We've been living with that scenario since Ford pardoned Nixon. While I'm quite pleased to see Trump face the legal consequences of criminal activity he engaged in out of office, I'd be much more pleased to see a President face legal consequences for crimes committed while in office. At some point, we need to close the door on Ford's pardon.
Furthermore, Nixon was never convicted of anything, nor admitted any guilt.

I didn't think pardons worked that way?
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,668
3,067
136
I wasn't calling him a troll so much as calling out his first post in the thread a troll. Very subtle distinction, and in some sense superfluous.

I realize he's been around, my comment was just pertaining to his sudden appearance in this thread and in particular his first post here AFAIK, yesterday, I believe. He was full of himself and had nothing substantive to add. I doubt he'd read the thread so far. WTH should we give a shit what he thinks, was my reaction. It was a troll!
Valid and I haven't given a shit about what he posts for a long time.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,841
8,306
136
Good comment to a current piece on the trial verdict in The New York Times:


XXX
Somewhere in the U.S.A.
May 31
For every crime of Trump's, there are plenty of commentators who have acknowledged his crimes but have said, and still say, that he should be let off the hook, for one reason or another. Most, though not all, of these are supposed never-Trump Republicans, but a few, like Ruth Marcus of the Washington Post, who should know better, also say it. All are wrong.

After the Civil War, Confederate leaders were let off the hook.

Nixon was let off the hook.

Merrick Garland was pretty much going to let Trump off the hook and was in fact doing that when Trump announced for the Presidency and Garland felt he had to appoint a special counsel. So much time had been wasted, and our confidence in Garland at that point was so low, that it was a pleasant surprise when Jack Smith earnestly moved the case forward.

After the Beer Hall Putsch in 1923 - which was not a joke, it was a serious attempt to overthrow the Weimar government in which both Nazis and police were killed in a firefight - Hitler got a slap on the wrist - basically, he was let off the hook.

The mistakes with the Confederates and with Nixon - both of which seemed to make sense at the time -, and Garland's inaction, got us to where we are today. We know where the Weimar Republic ended up.

I would still like to see Bragg charge him with the tax fraud that is the criminal side of Leititia James's civil case.

Charge him with everything that can be proven in court.

388 Recommended
- - -
Title of the article:

I Was Skeptical of the ‘Zombie’ Trump Case. I Stand Corrected.​

 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
5,837
2,101
136
You can't allow him to overthrow the government and ignore all laws because his supporters are part of a cult. The real take away from Hitler is that you actually have to punish insurrectionists and not give them the opportunity to seek power. This is why the 14th amendment bans insurrectionists from running, too bad the supreme court doesn't actually follow the Constitution.

100% you need to punish insurrectionists.

You see the hissy fit the GQP is throwing about Judge Merchan presiding over Trump's trial? They are painting him as a partisan hack, since he has contributed $250 or something like that to some Democrat politicians. And also that his daughter, Loren Merchan, works for a digital campaign firm, which does run campaigns for Democratic politicians. They totally forget the fucking partisan hacks like Uncle Thomas Clarence and Samuel Alito who have wives actively working to fuck over the nation.

I am very close to feeling that the only way for this country to change is to become just as radicalized as the right. At this point, I'm not sure what else will help push change. Maybe the only way to get the GQP is to fight fire with fire.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,841
8,306
136
100% you need to punish insurrectionists.

You see the hissy fit the GQP is throwing about Judge Merchan presiding over Trump's trial? They are painting him as a partisan hack, since he has contributed $250 or something like that to some Democrat politicians. And also that his daughter, Loren Merchan, works for a digital campaign firm, which does run campaigns for Democratic politicians. They totally forget the fucking partisan hacks like Uncle Thomas Clarence and Samuel Alito who have wives actively working to fuck over the nation.

I am very close to feeling that the only way for this country to change is to become just as radicalized as the right. At this point, I'm not sure what else will help push change. Maybe the only way to get the GQP is to fight fire with fire.
I am 100% for vote blue across the board. Easy to recommend these days for everyone. No biggie for me because I have never voted for a Republican.

I saw on TV yesterday Judge Merchan contributed $15 to Biden's campaign, IIRC.

CNN —
Judge Juan Merchan, the judge overseeing Donald Trump’s criminal case in New York, donated $35 in political contributions to Democrats in 2020, including a $15 contribution to the campaign of Trump’s opponent, President Joe Biden.


According to federal election records, Merchan made the three donations in July 2020 through ActBlue, an online fundraising platform for Democratic candidates and causes.


Meet the judge presiding over Trump's criminal arraignment
Merchan contributed $15 earmarked for the Biden campaign, and made two $10 contributions, one earmarked to the Progressive Turnout Project, a voter outreach organization, and another to Stop Republicans, a subsidiary of the Progressive Turnout Project.

Personally, I think $35 in contribution to Democrats does not render him incapable of fairly presiding over a court that tries a Republican. Giving $15 to Biden's campaign does not mean that he "hates" his opponent, as Trump claims, but that's Trump for you.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,624
12,757
146
-Honestly I would find the conservative position much more respectable and honest if the line was "Yeah, sure, he's guilty but I don't agree with the law and will be voting for him anyway" or even "Yeah he's guilty, but still the best choice for president" Rather than this political persecution BS.

I mean there are plenty of laws I would be pro-jury nullification. Not this one, but plenty where someone might violate the letter of a law that I just don't agree with. So I could see an argument from that perspective.
That would be logical though, logic didn't get them to where they are, so logic won't get them out of it. It's purely emotional, so they'll thrive in that emotional environment.
 
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manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,353
2,363
136
Appeal(s) could take years, depending on how far they ultimately go.


 
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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,525
27,829
136
O

if Nixon took the pardon, he admitted guilt. It’s a requirement for accepting a pardon.
Did Nixon ever accept the pardon? I don't recall that he did. Since he was never prosecuted, there was no incentive to accept it.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,577
4,659
136
Did Nixon ever accept the pardon? I don't recall that he did. Since he was never prosecuted, there was no incentive to accept it.


I found this via quick Googling:

In Burdick v. United States, the Court ruled that a pardon carried an "imputation of guilt" and accepting a pardon was "an admission of guilt.”.

So he did not, however it was "imputed".
 
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gothuevos

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2010
2,092
1,735
136
And that other counties like France, Italy, etc have done this and it’s fine. People acting like this is without precedent in first world democracies are full of shit.
Did those countries have an extreme right wing agenda ready to be enacted as soon as the opposition party took office with plans to consolidate power indefinitely?

Or did any of those countries have a heavily armed populace willing to commit violence?

There are some uniquely American aspects to this that make it way different than anything any European country has done.
 
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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,271
9,352
146
Did those countries have an extreme right wing agenda ready to be enacted as soon as the opposition party took office with plans to consolidate power indefinitely?

Or did any of those countries have a heavily armed populace willing to commit violence?

There are some uniquely American aspects to this that make it way different than anything any European country has done.
People are only truly ready to DIE when they have nothing to lose. The right wing American cosplayers are pussies and wannabes with houses and 401Ks. If they take to arms, kill a few of them and watch them all fold like blowhard origami.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,388
4,628
136
People are only truly ready to DIE when they have nothing to lose. The right wing American cosplayers are pussies and wannabes with houses and 401Ks. If they take to arms, kill a few of them and watch them all fold like blowhard origami.
But if MAGAtards did riot, how much force will local law enforcement go? Will state police or federal national guard be needed?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,699
6,196
126
But if MAGAtards did riot, how much force will local law enforcement go? Will state police or federal national guard be needed?
Your first question doesn't make much sense to me as written, but assuming I can correctly guess what I think you're getting at I would answer thus:

Cult are filled by people who live in an state of inner psychological fear, the fear of recognition that the the misery of their personal lives is the result of the fact it's what they really deserve, a fear some cult leader will happen along to fill with flattery on the one hand, (we will make America great), and on the other hand stokes by stating garbage like (we have to fear everything because nobody has ever seen it this bad). As we can see from the massive and violent protests on the streets of NYC in front of the court house during Trumps trial cult behavior is most safely practiced with bull horns stationed behind heavy lenses 5000 meters off shore. I don't think too many people have noticed the fact that alternate realities don't do well in court. It's all fun and games until the clock strikes jail time.

We are riding a wave of psychosis that has exploded from repressed negative feelings into violence at the Capital. I think a guilty verdict on May 30th was the cresting of that wave The Emperor is walking around in his underwear. My opinion.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,050
38,554
136
People are only truly ready to DIE when they have nothing to lose. The right wing American cosplayers are pussies and wannabes with houses and 401Ks. If they take to arms, kill a few of them and watch them all fold like blowhard origami.


This.

The Waffle House brigade just doesn't get it. Being an outrage addict obsessed with white grievance politics doesn't confer the ability, or stones, to fight. What's more, these people are idiots.

To the handful of cultists nuts enough to join Team Tarpman, remember to wave to the drone morons.
 
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