Trump NY indictment thread

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JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,816
952
126
I just hope his impending Alzheimers doesn’t rot his brain too far where he’s not conscious enough to feel humiliated about this loss. I ain’t hopeful he will see the inside of a prison cell, but I do hope he will be a broke, miserable fool before he passes and he’s mentally there to know it on his deathbed.
Don't think he's capable of feeling shame. Even if everything collapses, he would just blame all the evil Democrats that went after him.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,257
6,344
126
New organs of perception develope with need, I have read
Don't think he's capable of feeling shame. Even if everything collapses, he would just blame all the evil Democrats that went after him.
That is the problem. Trump grew up in the shadow of a father who made him feel worthless. Narcissistic psychopathy is a condition of shameless self-aggrandizement that is there to prevent ever feeling shame again. It is an extreme form of self hate, the love of a phony made up self, a fictional lie, one has to project to hide the internal disaster and pain. It's just ego in the extreme. We hate Trump because we have the same needs and he has succeeded so far in sucking the life out of everything he touches because, unlike us, he can't feel any shame at all He is better at being sick than most people. In our culture having money is what determines a person's worth so Trump was born on third base making it easy for him to pretend.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,835
2,791
136
Musk sold $22 billion of Tesla stock over a few months as part of his twitter takeover. Incl $8.5 bil in one go. Yes shareholders grumbled but I dont think $500 mil would have much of an impact on the stock.
That was then, this is now. The TSLA story is materially different 18 months later. The question everyone is now asking is whether Tesla is still worth over $500B? I'll leave the answer to you.

Although you're right $500M isn't a whole lot.


Apologies if already posted, but of course there is a gofundme to help this turd out (on paper at least).


And hey they have found a number of rubes so far.

The question is--is this a grift in the name of another grifter? Where will this money actually end up? Apparently the woman doing this is married to one of those "pay me to tell you how to get rich" stains, so I think it's a valid question.

I'd love to think that whatever happens to this money, much like with the Republican party coffers it means it won't be going to help Trump win the election. Then again, we all know who the rich in this country (and some others) favor, it may be impossible to dry up that well.
Last I heard, this GFM had raised less than $2M total. It'll take a long time to come up with $450M because rubes are paying with their SS checks.

If there really was a line of rich people willing to pay for Trump's civil penalties, it would have happened already. Rich people like to keep and grow their money, which is why they vote for GOP tax cuts in the first place. Their political donations are "investments" in crony capitalism, not donations for scoundrels who can't pay their bills.
 

Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
1,887
3,614
136
If he uses campaign donations for legal bills, are they taxable?
According to Trump, they are not... he is using a tax-exempt PAC to pay most of his legal bills. Using a tax loophole, where this specific use of a Leadership PAC has not been previously litigated or formalized as a legitimate (or illegitimate) use of funds.


However, he can't (legally) do the same method for his $450 million business fine/penalty, which has to be paid personally rather than via a PAC. Gifts can be made to Trump to fund the fine (or for Trump to otherwise spend as he pleases), which are only reportable to the IRS if over $18k individual exclusion limit - and only become taxable for the donor if they exceed the $13.6 million lifetime exemption in total gifts.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,266
13,567
146
According to Trump, they are not... he is using a tax-exempt PAC to pay most of his legal bills. Using a tax loophole, where this specific use of a Leadership PAC has not been previously litigated or formalized as a legitimate (or illegitimate) use of funds.


However, he can't (legally) do the same method for his $450 million business fine/penalty, which has to be paid personally rather than via a PAC. Gifts can be made to Trump to fund the fine (or for Trump to otherwise spend as he pleases), which are only reportable to the IRS if over $18k individual exclusion limit - and only become taxable for the donor if they exceed the $13.6 million lifetime exemption in total gifts.
If it's his bills, not the PAC's bills, then how exactly is the PAC paying for his bills not a gift? a taxable gift? If a church gives someone money, it's taxable, so what's the difference?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,620
50,816
136
If it's his bills, not the PAC's bills, then how exactly is the PAC paying for his bills not a gift? a taxable gift? If a church gives someone money, it's taxable, so what's the difference?
I think the argument would be that exonerating Trump is in the interests of the campaign.

That being said the real reasoning is 'fuck you, we both know neither the FEC or the courts are going to stop me.'
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,835
2,791
136
If it's his bills, not the PAC's bills, then how exactly is the PAC paying for his bills not a gift? a taxable gift? If a church gives someone money, it's taxable, so what's the difference?
The cited Reuters article more or less explains it. The difference is that the FEC isn't going to go after Trump over his legal bills.

However the civil penalties resulting from his recent legal verdicts are not legal bills. I remember an article referring to this after the verdict a few weeks ago, but I don't recall the details. A SuperPAC can't just wire $455M to NYS and call it a day. This article touches on it:

Probably a moot point anyway, none of the relevant PACs has several hundred M$ on hand.
 
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Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
1,887
3,614
136
If it's his bills, not the PAC's bills, then how exactly is the PAC paying for his bills not a gift? a taxable gift? If a church gives someone money, it's taxable, so what's the difference?
The way I'd think about it - the payments by the PAC are going directly to law firms, for whom the payment is taxable income. Trump doesn't ever directly receive the money so he doesn't report it as income (and Trump shouldn't then claim the legal fees as business expenses, but knowing Trump, he may be cooking the books with an illegal double-dip there claiming the expense which he doesn't pay).

And this is a very grey area that, per the article, a Trump spokesman said were made in "accordance with the law and upon the advice of counsel."

Even though the PAC is theoretically quite restricted in how it can use its funds, no one is enforcing or even reviewing those limits on Trump with a deadlocked FEC.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,620
50,816
136
The way I'd think about it - the payments by the PAC are going directly to law firms, for whom the payment is taxable income. Trump doesn't ever directly receive the money so he doesn't report it as income (and Trump shouldn't then claim the legal fees as business expenses, but knowing Trump, he may be cooking the books with an illegal double-dip there claiming the expense which he doesn't pay).

And this is a very grey area that, per the article, a Trump spokesman said were made in "accordance with the law and upon the advice of counsel."

Even though the PAC is theoretically quite restricted in how it can use its funds, no one is enforcing or even reviewing those limits on Trump with a deadlocked FEC.
The FEC's internal legal team recommended about 30 investigations into Trump for various violations. The Republican commissioners on the FEC refused to vote for a single one. Frankly we should just shut it down as it no longer serves a purpose, if it ever did.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,556
834
126
Thoughts from MAGA land, there are infact companies that want to post the bond for Trump. But are scared to because they know if they do the IRS will go after them with a vengeance. It still doesn't explain how a man worth many billions can't come up with it on his own. And it sounds very tin foil'ish. But it falls right into their "big bag Dems are are so terrified of Trump they'll do anything to stop him!"

They take something as seemingly simple as nobody wants to help here because they know he's not good for it, and turn it into the government is out to destroy Trump at all costs. Trump's the politician version of "My baby didn't do nothin!" Meanwhile, his supporters who claim all charges are made up all seem to think Fanni Willis should be jailed and disbarred because she had sex with a co worker lol. I know she has nothing to do with the NY case which this thread's about, but it's facinating to see how their brains work (or don't work) when it comes to Trump vs the world.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,266
13,567
146
The FEC's internal legal team recommended about 30 investigations into Trump for various violations. The Republican commissioners on the FEC refused to vote for a single one. Frankly we should just shut it down as it no longer serves a purpose, if it ever did.
Ah there we are. I figured there was some shenanigans going on related to this. Now I know there is, just nobody's doing anything about it.

That's okay, I'm sure they'll be just as discerning with other citizens.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,032
21,162
136
I know the Republicans have no decency but if we could only just neuter or sterilize anyone who donates to Trump in any way shape or form. Whether through a GoFundMe or whatever, The world would become a much better place in a generation or two.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,163
12,477
136
Both cases are the same - a bond prevents seizure of assets during appeal. If he can’t come up with one here then NYS can start selling off assets right now.

From my understanding the next step is probably Trump declaring bankruptcy if the judgment is not stayed.
First...I thought you couldn't escape court ordered fines/asset losses via bankruptcy.

next...if the state starts seizing and selling off his assets...and he wins in appeal...how does he get his assets back? Seems more like, pending appeal, the state could only put liens on any asset.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,620
50,816
136
First...I thought you couldn't escape court ordered fines/asset losses via bankruptcy.
You can’t. He would just be delaying things.
next...if the state starts seizing and selling off his assets...and he wins in appeal...how does he get his assets back? Seems more like, pending appeal, the state could only put liens on any asset.
If he wins on appeal (he won’t) then the state would owe him his money back plus interest. They can absolutely sell whatever they want.

That is assuming he doesn’t post a bond. The point of the bond is to prevent the state from auctioning off your assets while you appeal.
 
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Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
1,887
3,614
136
First...I thought you couldn't escape court ordered fines/asset losses via bankruptcy.

next...if the state starts seizing and selling off his assets...and he wins in appeal...how does he get his assets back? Seems more like, pending appeal, the state could only put liens on any asset.
1) Correct, Fines/penalties/asset forfeitures are generally not cleared away by bankruptcy - but bankruptcy could delay the process.

2) Edit: To stay enforcement of the judgement to file an appeal in New York, he has to provide bond/surety providing certainty he can meet the full amount of the fine/penalty and is not just seeking to avoid payment via appeals (possibly 110% of the amount I think in NY) - so no seizures will actually occur during an appeal if he posts bond/surety, but he can't file the appeal without the bond.

(Edit Note: I was incorrect, he has already appealed, posting the bond just stops the State from starting to enforce collection. The state would have to return any funds obtained from selling off Trump assets, if he later prevailed on appeal, but the sales wouldn't be reversed.)
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,257
6,344
126
It's just outrageous how our communist courts can screw over an innocent man who has paid billions in taxes and wants to make America great again. Just how on earth was such a blessed person supposed to know that crime doesn't pay. I mean, who knew?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,257
6,344
126
Why are women voting for a rapist who brags about grabbing them by their p*ssies? We are irrational and tribal animal in many cases.
Women who fee worthless feel at home when abused. Love and Relationship used to be full of psychopaths who would recommending treating women as beneath their ken as advise on how to get laid. Also, owing to the commonality of fundamentalist Christians in the Republican party you will find many who were told that sex is the same as sin and are thus so sexually repressed their attraction to it is compulsive. "Grab my pussy please so I enjoy without initiating it."
 
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