Trump NY indictment thread

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gothuevos

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2010
2,017
1,726
136
Really wish that GA or J6 cases would have come first, if they will come at all. This just looks weak. If you're gonna take your shot, make it count, not try to get the guy on some weak white collar crime. If you're going to risk all this backlash, potential violence, and push GOP state legislatures to try to find ways to retaliate (look at TN, NC) and/or set the stage for 2024 shenanigans, at least make it worth it.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
They figured that out all off of an indictment, without seeing or hearing any of the evidence? He has only been charged and arrested, and the charges made public.. nothing else is known for them to make such a assumption. I think you are sucking up to much of the media's games.
Yeah they are just trying to put spin on it, not because they believe any of that crap but because Fox News is probably getting awesome ratings right now. They have like, 10 seconds of actual news followed by hours of angry pundits screaming at the camera. I bet Fox is secretly loving this. CNN is just trying to drag in viewers and advertisers. This is their best story since Jan of 2021.
 
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esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
23,772
4,963
146
Serial rapist or not, I think Trump would not do well with any amount of jail time, even 90 days. No more pieces of beautiful chocolate cake for him. ice cream for Donny two scoops

FTFY
 
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alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,667
3,066
136
Well for the next few months. Georgia has to be presented to hopefully the next eligible grand jury schedule. Won’t need to do any investigation. Just present the facts. So could be done in 2 weeks.

Jack Smith recalling witnesses on documents. So can’t be much more to investigate. Even though at Pence for Jan 6, would bet still 4-6 months on that investigation.

But any of these indictments will sink the orange monkey ship before primary voting even begins. And he can sink the general election by him running as multi indicted 3rd party.

the first Republican primary debate is in August, just four months away. there is no reason to believe that the orange traitor won't be a part of that debate (unless he chooses to bow out of it).
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,947
38,323
136
Seems wondrous that NY alone could put this traitor away enough to make him irrelevant, but I really can't wait to see what Jack Smith does to this piece of shit. Supposedly they have video evidence of Il Douche himself "relocating" top secret documents at a time he insisted he didn't have them. Georgia's Gov can't be trusted to stay out of it.

Probably some more obstruction charges coming too maybe though? Keep running that mouth Donnie, we love it.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,318
15,116
136
Really wish that GA or J6 cases would have come first, if they will come at all. This just looks weak. If you're gonna take your shot, make it count, not try to get the guy on some weak white collar crime. If you're going to risk all this backlash, potential violence, and push GOP state legislatures to try to find ways to retaliate (look at TN, NC) and/or set the stage for 2024 shenanigans, at least make it worth it.

If you are picking which cases will have a bigger political impact and making that a priority then you aren’t being a neutral participant in upholding the law and that makes this political. Politics shouldn’t play a role when upholding the rule of law.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,363
7,016
136
Really wish that GA or J6 cases would have come first, if they will come at all. This just looks weak. If you're gonna take your shot, make it count, not try to get the guy on some weak white collar crime. If you're going to risk all this backlash, potential violence, and push GOP state legislatures to try to find ways to retaliate (look at TN, NC) and/or set the stage for 2024 shenanigans, at least make it worth it.

Honestly if GA convicts, the GA governor will pardon him!

A federal conviction would be pardoned or charges dropped when a Republican POTUS takes office.

New York is the only state with a charge where he likely won't be pardoned!
 
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alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,667
3,066
136
Honestly if GA convicts, the GA governor will pardon him!

A federal conviction would be pardoned or charges dropped when a Republican POTUS takes office.

New York is the only state with a charge where he likely won't be pardoned!

Kemp and Trump aren't exactly on the same page, i wouldn't count on a GA pardon.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,802
29,553
146
When you live in an alternate reality, everything is an attack on your belief system.
How else does one explain the conservative outrage of "wokism" and "CRT" and every other rage issue that's basically railing against the idea of "let's treat everyone fairly, equally, and with human dignity"

yeah seriously. who gives a fuck what these ignorant chumbawumbas think? honestly.

Why are we still concerned by the thoughts of perpetually-hallucinating rightwing cornholers?

We simply can't spend our time worried about their feels anymore. There really is no reason for it, or time left on this earth to entertain their fucking machinations.

Let them eat themselves to death. it's time to stop fucking caring about their perpetual self-victimization.

Fuck them.

seriously.

Let justice go be justice and fuck them all to hell. They may win a few and keep gnashing their teeth all the way down, but so be it. They are in the death knell of their 500 year-old broken bronze-aged, anti-religious cult identity run. The planet doesn't need them any more...fuck, it never did, really, but so let's just let them go and eat each other.

Florida recently made it easier for them to all kill each other without any real consequences (if you're white, anyway), so let's just let natural law take over, right? It's what the libertarians and well, frankly all of them have been begging for. Let them kill themselves in their own dumbshit policies and paralyzing victimhood. Let the ocean take them, honestly. They don't care anymore, lol.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,802
29,553
146
Watching some of this spectacle from Australia.


You good folk have a problem.

lol, haven't seen any of it. earlier today, NPR said "We will remark on the president's event...we will not air it."

lol

It's important to just turn off the firehose of brainless bloody murder that is that fucking GOP mouthpiece.

Just silence the fat fuck, and only ever show him moping, or only allow him to speak in public if it is in court.

that's it.

Allow access to public speech during trial, but gag that fat fucker until then. Just do it, and penalize him every time he breaks it.

Do it.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
Payment of hush money is not illegal.

Going to reply to this again for clarity. Under federal election law, it is illegal for a corporation to make campaign contributions exceeding $2700. A hush money payment would be a campaign contribution if the purpose of the payment was to influence the outcome of an election in the candidate's favor. Conceptually, the Trump Org was making a contribution to Trump's campaign in excess of the limit by paying Stormy Daniels for her silence. That is the crime that Cohen plead guilty to, and is the underlying crime that Trump allegedly covered up by falsifying his business records to make it look like legal fees.

So your statement is incorrect if made in an unqualified manner.

Now, if Trump can convince a jury that the hush money was solely to avoid personal embarrassment, then the underlying felony goes away and the falsification of business records becomes a misdemeanor.

I have my doubts that Trump can convince a jury of that, however. I'm reading now that there was a conservation between Trump, Cohen, and David Pecker (AMI), where they discussed releasing Daniels in advance of the election because the media had gotten wind of it and it would be better to not be seen as suppressing her story. To that, Trump said they needed to wait until after the election so that what she said wouldn't damage his campaign. And that is exactly what they did. Pretty sure Pecker is a witness to that conversation in addition to Cohen.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
This may be a somewhat long post but worth reading if you're interested in what's really going on with this case.

Now that I've pieced together that it is the felony violation of federal election law that Cohen was prosecuted for that is the crime that Trump's falsification of records was meant to cover up, some things are clearer.

So I was wondering why Cy Vance had not prosecuted Trump over the hush money. Well he was asked that by Chuck Todd, and he gave a partial answer (not wanting to get into "internal deliberations"), but he mentioned that he had expected some action from DoJ but it didn't happen. Which to me means that Vance thought that Trump needed to be prosecuted and perhaps convicted by DoJ in order to give him the "other crime" he needed to make the falsficiation of records a felony under NY law. But DoJ didn't do it.

I can only assume this was Garland's DoJ we're talking about, as Vance's last term overlapped Biden by 1 year, and Trump's DoJ could never be expected to comply as a standing DoJ policy says no indicment of sitting POTUESES. So it would have been on Garland's DoJ to prosecute, but they did not. The question is why?

Well the answer frequently given is that the case was based on the testimony of Cohen, who is a proven and admitted liar. Cohen has been complaining that they prosecuted him but not Trump even though both committed the crime. I kind of think he has a point.

Now that I'm looking at the indictment and statement of facts, it seems clear to me that David Pecker is also a direct witness, who pow-wowwed with Trump and Cohen in at least two conversations about these hush money payments. He signed an immunity agreement in 2018, which means he is likely testifying against Trump. On top of that, there is a mountain of corroborating paper, though it will be a challenge to present that to a jury without putting them to sleep.

I don't know. I think Garland is too risk averse. It's why they're taking too long on the records and why they kicked the can to a special counsel who also likely won't recommend prosecution over 1/6.

As to this case, Bragg seems to disagree with Vance that it is necessary for Trump to have been convicted by DoJ for the federal election felony. He seems to think it's enough that Cohen was prosecuted for it, and implicated Trump in his guilty plea allocution. So Bragg is attempting to do here essentially what DoJ has failed and refused to do. His case is really more about the underlying election law felony than it is about business records.

This isn't going to be a big case in terms of jail time, if any, but I'm a rule of law guy and I also understand the reasons behind election laws that Trump intentionally violated. He knew it, too. He took elaborate measures to cover it up. And that's what is useful about the trial: to bring out even more of his deplorable self-serving behavior to light. I also applaud his courage in being willing to go first even though he has the least consequential case. Maybe this will encourage the others.
 

PlanetJosh

Golden Member
May 6, 2013
1,815
143
106
If you are picking which cases will have a bigger political impact and making that a priority then you aren’t being a neutral participant in upholding the law and that makes this political. Politics shouldn’t play a role when upholding the rule of law.
It may not be a nation of laws but a nation of political and social will. How else do you explain juries tending to favor the testimony of celebrities?

And authorities and the general population tend to think someone is guilty mainly because the accused has a criminal past. Yet at the same time judges usually won't allow criminal past to be used by a jury for deciding criminal verdicts. Edit: For sentencing decided by a jury then criminal past can be used which is ok assuming a guilty verdict is just.
 
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sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
From the bit of Fox coverage I watched, painfully watched, obviously the bottom line is that Donald Trump is simply too powerful to be indicted. The Fox talking heads are not addressing the facts nor the evidence, they only say HOW DARE THEY, HOW DARE THEY.
Obviously they believe Trump is indeed above the law.

Fox had the Trump lawyers up there and they are paid (hopefully Trump pays them, they hope Trump pays them) paid to defend Trump just as Charles Manson's lawyers were paid to defended Charles Manson.
And then Fox hosts the usual suspects including the Trump children. And naturally the Trump children are going to defend big daddy, dare they are not included in the Will.

If Charles Manson had a mother, I'm sure Manson's mother would have defended and said very nice things too about her son Charley.
Parents and siblings always defend crooks and murderers when they are one of the family. What's in it for Fox News is beyond me???
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
PS. Some are asking why the delay to proceed to trial by DA Bragg? Waiting until December for the next court date? A lot of speculation, a lot of questioning of Bragg's intensions. I think the delay is a simple one, Bragg expects the other state cases against Trump to unfold into indictment long before December and Bragg wants to allow those other indictments to play out first. Then, maybe we'll have just one massive huge trial of Donald Trump with every indictment rolled into one.
I don't know if this is possible or just my wishful thinking, but I do believe that Bragg is quite willing to allow the much bigger indictments to proceed first, and therefore Bragg is making time allowances. If one of the other criminal cases should go to trial first I think Bragg would be just fine with that.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,683
49,274
136
Or maybe they dont hand over the laptop to Rudy next time… Who the fuck knows, lots of pieces in play, dont count out some Russian interference either, this may be Putins last card in the deck if he can hold off the ukr for that long… Pieces pieces pieces, its volatile and a game of incomplete information and given the starting positions, I dont think its comfortable… I mean even a 7% chance is a thing of nightmares is it not?
Honestly if GA convicts, the GA governor will pardon him!

A federal conviction would be pardoned or charges dropped when a Republican POTUS takes office.

New York is the only state with a charge where he likely won't be pardoned!
Georgia governor doesn’t have pardon powers.
 
Reactions: gothuevos

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,802
29,553
146
From the bit of Fox coverage I watched, painfully watched, obviously the bottom line is that Donald Trump is simply too powerful to be indicted. The Fox talking heads are not addressing the facts nor the evidence, they only say HOW DARE THEY, HOW DARE THEY.
Obviously they believe Trump is indeed above the law.

Fox had the Trump lawyers up there and they are paid (hopefully Trump pays them, they hope Trump pays them) paid to defend Trump just as Charles Manson's lawyers were paid to defended Charles Manson.
And then Fox hosts the usual suspects including the Trump children. And naturally the Trump children are going to defend big daddy, dare they are not included in the Will.

If Charles Manson had a mother, I'm sure Manson's mother would have defended and said very nice things too about her son Charley.
Parents and siblings always defend crooks and murderers when they are one of the family. What's in it for Fox News is beyond me???

remember that according to Roger Ailes, the founder of Fox News, the entire purpose of Fox News existing was so that "what happened to Nixon!" may never ever happen again.

The network exists entirely to defend criminal GOP presidents and insure that they never face justice for their obvious crimes against the American people.

This is an existential crisis for the network, because it means that they literally have no reason to exist. They have failed their singular mandate.

Though--creating horde of face-sucking automatons in the contemporary GOP and their fans, this president did survive two impeachments due to a criminal GOP that refused to prosecute clear crimes against the United States. That definitely was an "improvement" over Nixon in their minds, and would never have been possible without Fox seeping poison into the diseased brains of their viewers for the last 3 and some decades.
 

conehead433

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2002
5,566
890
126
I guess I wasn't the only person who noticed the hot blonde police officer who was waiting for Trump to come through the door into the courtroom.
As it turned out he made a turn the other direction so Trump didn't pass directly by her. I was fully expecting him to attempt to grab her by the pussy and get to watch her bitch slap him and then cuff him. Shucks, and Trump is such a ratings whore.
 
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