Trump ordered military strike on Iran, but reversed at last second

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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,324
8,242
136
Meh..I'm leaning towards the whole thing being a planned stunt from start to finish.

Its a textbook example of Trump's usual strategy. Back off a the last minute and then try to take credit for averting said crisis.

Trump single-handedly prevented war between Iran and the US. Nobel peace prize here he comes!

I can't believe we have a President boasting about calling off military operations on fucking Twitter!

Some military experts have gone on record saying the sequence of events Trump described is extremely unlikely - the idea that no one would have mentioned potential casualties until Mr. Brilliant Mind thought of it, is utterly ludicrous. When a military action is placed before a decision-maker, the projected number of casualties is one of the first factors mentioned.

Trump thought this was a great story. So much drama! It was about to go down, and only his wise intervention stopped a disproportionate military action. Such a brilliant commander he is. No one else thought about casualties or proportionality of response!

That seems a possibility, but I don't think it's necessarily true. I'm not convinced he's _that_ calculating or cunning. Seems equally-likely he might have been persuaded to go along with it by the Bolton faction, but once away from direct hectoring his supressed doubts came to the suface and he got scared about what the consequences might be for his popularity, and also perhaps about the sustained level of engagement and hard-work that would be involved in being a war-President. I really think he'd find that a frightening prospect. Would cut into golf time.

Trump's mental processes really are hard to figure out. Just as with a pre-verbal child.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,343
28,193
136
Then we should pull our Navy out of the area and let the world defend the straits for their own oil supplies.
I don't recall the strait having a problem while the JCPOA was in effect. But go ahead keep defending Trump
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,343
28,193
136
I have 2 questions...

Have we seen proof the tanker attak was Iran. Owner says it wasn't them.

Second, why has nobody pointed out Trump told a bald face lie about the events leading to the "stoppage" of the attack. Every persosn interviewed who is/was involved in military attacks said casualties is a subject brought up early. House chairman of the armed services committee said he knew hours before about potential casualties. Trump claiming he only found out 15 minutes before the attack only because he asked is utter bullshit.
 

DarthKyrie

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2016
1,534
1,284
146
I have 2 questions...

Have we seen proof the tanker attak was Iran. Owner says it wasn't them.

Second, why has nobody pointed out Trump told a bald face lie about the events leading to the "stoppage" of the attack. Every persosn interviewed who is/was involved in military attacks said casualties is a subject brought up early. House chairman of the armed services committee said he knew hours before about potential casualties. Trump claiming he only found out 15 minutes before the attack only because he asked is utter bullshit.

He probably was sleeping thru the briefing on the attack because it didn't have anything to do with him.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,718
7,215
136
IMO, the key to understanding Trump's behavior in this regard is his narcissism, his intense concern over the legacy he is going to leave behind him and his innate cowardliness that he hides by faking his bully boy persona in whatever room he finds himself in.

He's a spoiled brat man-child trying to behave as the stable genius he'll never be. Taken to the edge of being held responsible for the death of thousands of our own armed forces, even with foreknowledge of what was about to transpire and the eventual escalation that follows, it seems to me that as others have mentioned, it was a staged event with a predetermined outcome or an act of cowardliness when faced with an outcome and the inevitable follow-on future events that Trump realized would be completely out of his control the moment he pulled the trigger.

He likes to appear to be, as Bush Jr. said "The Decider" in all things that affects his ratings and his legacy. Having to start a shooting war, where it's common knowledge that "a battle plan never survives the first encounter" and where, to Trump's worst fears he will then have to rely on others to determine the outcome of anything that happens after he gives the go word it just seems natural that Trump would refuse to put himself in that kind of position.

His fate will then be in the hands of others. That's coming straight out of Trump's worst nightmares. I really don't think he'd be able to allow that, his being the prototype control freak that he is.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,516
4,615
136
I seem to remember agreeing with a certain someone a few years back who used to sound like this..



How you've changed due to Trump derangement syndrome is spectacular!

Now you want to start a military incident due to drones?

I didn't suggest anything of the sort.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,516
4,615
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I don't have to admit a damned thing as there's nothing to admit other than you've got nothing to show any different...lol! Please define "many things". Sanctions? We've done them and our allies are not on board with them. Our allies already know what happened in Iran and that's why they are not rushing to back us up. That the remains of the drone landed on Iranian soil, right? Even the commentators on Sky News are talking about how Err Furor has "no tools left in the tool box except the military".

Since you claim there are many actions we could take, other than military strikes, please do tell while keeping the above in mind.


You're correct. You don't have to admit it even if it is true that you claimed I called to harm Iranians through military action when it was a lie. And is here where everyone can read it.

Typical.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,516
4,615
136
I don't recall the strait having a problem while the JCPOA was in effect. But go ahead keep defending Trump


There have been issues with oil and the straits for decades. Remember when the Iranians mined the strait?
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,516
4,615
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What do you think should be done in response to the drone shooting? I don't think we should just ignore it.

I agree that IF it was in their airspace nothing should be done.

From all I've read and seen the flight plans of it was over international waters.

I would believe Centcom over Irans leadership anyday.

Where did I say we should go killing people?

I didn't say or suggest that we should kill a few hundred Iranians. I just don't think they should get by with it IF it was over international waters.

Entirely different.

Accident vs intentional.

And I'm not trying to justify the accidental downing of a civilian plane by our military.

Sorry, Too old and I've already served my country for 20 years. What have you done?

Then we should pull our Navy out of the area and let the world defend the straits for their own oil supplies.

Thanks.

I fixed it for you, so now you can pull those panties out of your ass.

Where did I push for a Military Response for what they did? Be specific.

I only stated they should not get a free pass if it was over international waters. I think you are mistaken or are just making an assumption that is what I meant.

I see, you won't admit you were wrong about your claim I was calling for harming Iranians with military action.

I am quite sure there are many things that could be done to discourage the shooting down of our drones over international waters that does not involve military ordnance.

Do you think we should just ignore them shooting down our drone IF it were over international waters as reported? I suspect you will dodge this question as well.

I didn't suggest anything of the sort.

You're correct. You don't have to admit it even if it is true that you claimed I called to harm Iranians through military action when it was a lie. And is here where everyone can read it.

Typical.

There have been issues with oil and the straits for decades. Remember when the Iranians mined the strait?
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,324
8,242
136
I don't recall the strait having a problem while the JCPOA was in effect. But go ahead keep defending Trump
There have been issues with oil and the straits for decades. Remember when the Iranians mined the strait?
Go back and look at the JCPOA timeline. Iranians were not mining the Strait during that time.
I don't recall anyone saying that they were "at that time".

This seems a disengenuous exchange on your part. If you aren't saying they were 'at that time' then what was the point of bringing up the issue in response to the first post about the period where the JCPOA was in effect?
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,516
4,615
136
This seems a disengenuous exchange on your part. If you aren't saying they were 'at that time' then what was the point of bringing up the issue in response to the first post about the period where the JCPOA was in effect?


Not at all. You obviously don't get that Iran has always played games in the strait when they want something. In the 80's they lost a huge portion of their navy because of it. The JCPOA has nothing to do with it, well other than the are pissed off about Trump cancelling it.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Not at all. You obviously don't get that Iran has always played games in the strait when they want something. In the 80's they lost a huge portion of their navy because of it. The JCPOA has nothing to do with it, well other than the are pissed off about Trump cancelling it.

The JCPOA has everything to do with the current imbroglio. Iran was living up to their end of it. All the rest of the 5+1 & the IAEA were pleased as punch until Donnie had to renege so that Bolton & Pompeo could pursue their war mongering Neocon agenda.

Make no mistake, that's exactly what all these contrived tensions are all about. It's built on lies by the same people who brought us Iraqi WMD's.
 
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pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,139
5,074
136
There have been issues with oil and the straits for decades. Remember when the Iranians mined the strait?

I remember that period quite well.
Do you know why they mined specifics areas in the straight?
I remember why.


Iraq attacked Iran.
Iraq started attacking all shipping out of Iranian ports. Civilian shipping. they did this for several years with little response form Iran in the Straight.
Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and others started shipping Iraqi oil as well as supplying war supplies to Iraq.
Iran finally started responding in the mid 80's with what they had on hand. Gunboats and mines. The target was Iraqi supply lines. They were hitting shipping that was fueling Iraq war against Iran. Iraq attacked any boat coming or going out of Iran. Iran started hitting boats carrying weapons and oil to and from Iraq.
Iraq started that war. Saudi's and Kuwait and others with US help backed Iraq.

The issues during the 80's in the straight were caused by US allies in the region attacking Iran.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Not at all. You obviously don't get that Iran has always played games in the strait when they want something. In the 80's they lost a huge portion of their navy because of it. The JCPOA has nothing to do with it, well other than the are pissed off about Trump cancelling it.

even the Iranians know you voted for ... Iran's President Rouhani mocks President Trump, says the White House is "afflicted by mental retardation."


birds of a feather
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,873
9,131
136
There have been issues with oil and the straits for decades. Remember when the Iranians mined the strait?

That was more directly related to the war with Iraq and less so with USA, but I guess we enjoyed playing both sides of that conflict. We reap what we sow.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
The rogue regime should get back into compliance with JCPOA. And so should Iran.

And there it is- the simple truth. We are the aggressors. The Trump admin lies about everything, including this. I figure the whole brouhaha leading up to Iran downing a drone is complete & utter fabrication, outright lies. The whole story line doesn't really add up under any scrutiny at all.

It's about creating a rationale to commit mass murder against an innocent population, a crime against humanity.
 
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