Putin did say military involvement with Iran would be a stupid thing to do yesterday.
I want to know if he took a call from Putin before reversing that order...
Gee, I wonder why Iran may not like us
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655?wprov=sfla1
For reference, I was 7 when this happened, never heard about it until a few years ago.
This was a pretty big event in the news at the time.
Our hands are not clean, the commander of the ship was more aggressive than he should have been.
Iran also has dirty hands for testing the navy so much and not identifying (poor word choice but there was some system that sorted out commercial flights from everything else and Iran decided to mix all its air travel *this is an enormous over simplification*) flights. This is all from memory
That's just more frosting on the shit cake we've been serving Iran for a long time. In a saner world we would sit down with them and settle this once and for all. Of course that would require us to admit that we were the assholes in overthrowing their democratically elected government and installing Reza Pavlavi to put the boot to their necks so our (and Britain's) oil companies could prosper at the expense of the Iranian people. Post-WWII Iran was adopting western ways and doing quite well in getting their country in order. Everything was fine until they decided to nationalize the oil industry. Decades later the murderous Shah of Iran gets sick, comes to the U.S. for treatment and Iran's government is overthrown. Think about how weak that government was that just his leaving the country was enough for it to topple. We refuse to return Shah, they take hostages. Carter has military try to rescue them and they fail. Hostages eventually returned. We blow plane out of the sky and so on...
We started this fight and we need to end it, once and for all.
When I read through the wiki, if I understood correctly, the Navy's systems reported the jet as not military. I haven't read the entire wiki yet, so I haven't come across where the mix up would have been.
No, that was pretty much all on the USA and their trigger happy captain, shoot they even gave him a medal after it was all set and done.This was a pretty big event in the news at the time.
Our hands are not clean, the commander of the ship was more aggressive than he should have been.
Iran also has dirty hands for testing the navy so much and not identifying (poor word choice but there was some system that sorted out commercial flights from everything else and Iran decided to mix all its air travel *this is an enormous over simplification*) flights. This is all from memory
No, that was pretty much all on the USA and their trigger happy captain
While you are correct this is one of his few consistent positions, he is responsible for the escalating tensions in the gulf. We had a working JCPOA, Trump broke the word of the US and backed Iran into a corner. Now the hardliners there are emboldened.I am somewhat shocked to say this but if there is one thing Trump has been remarkably consistent on, its been his unwillingness to initiate new military conflicts overseas.
There might be a point where some truly unspeakable act of aggression goes totally unanswered by Trump, and it could be a problem then, but thus far Trump has done well keeping the US away from red lines.
I don't believe this comes from any deep, principled position on the dignity of life (Trump has certainly not flinched at giving the military carte blanch in escalating drone strikes, Saudia Arabia in its war in Yemen, Russia in its treatment of Ukraine, etc) but perhaps from squeamishness over the idea of being responsible for something where it becomes difficult to rewrite a loss into a win.
Maybe it comes from a position where he does not see a way to personally make money on war or in that he believes it is more profitable to cozy up to those who we might otherwise bomb back to the stone age.
Regardless, I would rather Trump continue doing the right things for the wrong reasons, than doing the wrong things for the wrong reasons.
I think you guys are giving Trump too much credit imagining he has logic and rational analysis guiding his decisions. I think Trump is afraid of initiating armed conflicts because he can imagine being the direct target of them, e.g. nuclear war.
While you are correct this is one of his few consistent positions, he is responsible for the escalating tensions in the gulf. We had a working JCPOA, Trump broke the word of the US and backed Iran into a corner. Now the hardliners there are emboldened.
What do you think should be done in response to the drone shooting? I don't think we should just ignore it.
Oh, of course, they are still keeping their colluding comms out in the open..Putin did say military involvement with Iran would be a stupid thing to do yesterday.
I can't believe I'm saying this but every once in a while its good that trump doesn't listen to his advisers, apparently
As per your own witness, Russia has been much more agressive with human lives since forever, in air, on ground and under water... probably space too... Oh and that election thing too... I am thinking, since you are not respondig to that at ALL, maybe a little drone shootdown warrents ABSOLUTLY no response, what so ever.What do you think should be done in response to the drone shooting? I don't think we should just ignore it.
I agree that IF it was in their airspace nothing should be done.
From all I've read and seen the flight plans of it was over international waters.
I would believe Centcom over Irans leadership anyday.
What do you think should be done in response to the drone shooting? I don't think we should just ignore it.
Diplomacy. And if that doesn’t work the use of force will always be on the table.
They shot down a drone, given the map below I wonder why. I think Iran (the government anyways) is terrible but the fact remains they are a sovereign nation. One who mustn’t be allowed to gain nuclear weapons but a sovereign nation nonetheless. Our presence surrounding them is very antagonistic and honestly I’m surprised it hasn’t escalated more before now.
Disappointed in his reversal of decision. Iran has needed to be beat down for awhile now.
Disappointed in his reversal of decision. Iran has needed to be beat down for awhile now.
Step up tough guy. I'm sure Trump could use more volunteers.Disappointed in his reversal of decision. Iran has needed to be beat down for awhile now.
OK...Who leaked this and why? To send a message to Iran, "Don't mess with this guy, he's crazy"? I don't think that's what Tehran is hearing, though.
The bigger question is; what was airing on Fox News when he changed his mind? Plausibly, it was a quasi-official leak, to warn Iran.
It might be a leak from Bolton (or another Hawk), angry that his attack was called off by Trump and wanting to make him look weak, so he wouldn't want to back down again.
It might be a leak from someone who suspects that Trump has compromising factors that limit his ability to go ahead with certain policies, and making him look like a wimp makes it harder for him to back down again in the future.
Or it was someone who was pissed off that the attack was called off.
Curious as to whether it was an internal person who is concerned with what is going on and leaked it without permission or whether this is an internal person who was told to leak this in order to send some message to someone. It matters who leaked it to frame the story.
And, this morning, our national burden took credit for calling off the strike because it would kill too many people. Why that information was not taken into account BEFORE ordering the strike is unclear. But, seems to follow the similar pattern of screwing something up, fixing the screw up and then begging for credit for solving the problem.