Trump...Tax Fraud? Say it ain't so!

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,390
11,746
136
I realize this will be drawn out until WAAAAAAY after the election...so it won't impact his chances in any way...


Trump could face tax fraud probe, Manhattan prosecutor says

Of course, by the time this ever gets to court...IF it does, Trump will have another USSC justice in his pocket...so it too will roll off like water off a duck's ass.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
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I don't think that's actually true with tax fraud.

I can 100% assure you - it is. I mean think about it on the face of it - do you think jurisdictions should be able to go back... 10... 20... or 30 years back and demand that you produce documentation that proves your income, investment assets, investment gains, tax deductions etc? That's bonkers.

Even a simple google related to federal tax returns will tell you:




When doing similar for a NY return, it tells me 7 years which is what I would expect.





Now I will throw a wrench in one part of this... IF at anypoint WITHIN the statute of limitations they open an audit - it's essentially opening up a case to where you can be further prosecuted down the line I believe.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,642
5,329
136
I realize this will be drawn out until WAAAAAAY after the election...so it won't impact his chances in any way...


Trump could face tax fraud probe, Manhattan prosecutor says

Of course, by the time this ever gets to court...IF it does, Trump will have another USSC justice in his pocket...so it too will roll off like water off a duck's ass.
"Might have grounds to investigate". That's what the fellow said. The exact same thing can be said about every single person in the US that files a return. All they have to do is get all of Trumps tax records (the same tax records the IRS already has), go through them, investigate every line item, and hope to find evidence of a crime. This is a fishing expedition.
 
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Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
"Might have grounds to investigate". That's what the fellow said. The exact same thing can be said about every single person in the US that files a return. All they have to do is get all of Trumps tax records (the same tax records the IRS already has), go through them, investigate every line item, and hope to find evidence of a crime. This is a fishing expedition.

They don't have a shot in hell in regards to the IRS. Statute of limitations is 3 years from a federal perspective.

The only thing they can even attempt an investigation at this point is from a New York State level from what I see.

Among the reports Vance’s office cited were allegations that Trump routinely sent lenders financial statements that inflated his assets and omitted debt-laden properties, and from 2004 to 2014 paid $400 million in cash for “five houses, eight golf courses and a winery” despite billions of dollars in debt.


So if they are citing something from 2014... time is tickin'
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,390
11,746
136
They don't have a shot in hell in regards to the IRS. Statute of limitations is 3 years from a federal perspective.

The only thing they can even attempt an investigation at this point is from a New York State level from what I see.




So if they are citing something from 2014... time is tickin'


 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,547
2,759
136
Yeah, federal statute for fraud is no statute of limitations. NY state may or may not be different.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
Yeah, federal statute for fraud is no statute of limitations. NY state may or may not be different.
All this statute of limitations talk presumes they stopped doing fraud which doesn't exactly seem like a safe assumption with this lot.

Any rich person uses an accountant for this stuff. There is absolutely zero chance that this would fall into any of the 3 buckets below that allows for "Forever Statute"

Does the IRS Always Have Forever?
No. Whether or not the IRS can enforce the forever statute for civil tax fraud depends on various factors.
If the matter is appealed or brought to the U.S. Court of Claims, not all courts agree as to whether the IRS may be able to enforce the civil fraud statute forever, and there are some limitations depending on who committed the fraud, when the fraud commenced (and ended), and what happened in the interim.


Three Main IRS “Forever Statute” Situations to be aware of
When it comes to tax, the main exceptions to the 3- or 6-year SOL is codified in 26 U.S. Code § 6501 – Limitations on assessment and collection are:
False Return
In the case of a false or fraudulent return with the intent to evade tax, the tax may be assessed, or a proceeding in court for collection of such tax may be begun without assessment, at any time.
Willful Attempt To Evade Tax
In case of a willful attempt in any manner to defeat or evade tax imposed by this title (other than tax imposed by subtitle A or B), the tax may be assessed, or a proceeding in court for the collection of such tax may be begun without assessment, at any time.
No Return
In the case of failure to file a return, the tax may be assessed, or a proceeding in court for the collection of such tax may be begun without assessment, at any time.
Since the IRS does not define Civil Tax Fraud, you should review the IRM (Internal Revenue Manual) for assistance. The requisite sections of the manual have been reproduced below.

Definition of Fraud
Fraud is deception by misrepresentation of material facts, or silence when good faith requires expression, which results in material damage to one who relies on it and has the right to rely on it. Simply stated, it is obtaining something of value from someone else through deceit.
Tax fraud is often defined as an intentional wrongdoing, on the part of a taxpayer, with the specific purpose of evading a tax known or believed to be owing. Tax fraud requires both:
  • A tax due and owing; and
  • Fraudulent intent.




Need I remind you - the IRS themselves have stated they don't go after rich folks because... well... they have lawyers and they have accountants.


.



Let me assure you - no matter how much you WANT TO BELIEVE! and you continue to tell yourself THIS IS WHATS GOING TO GET HIM!!!..... this won't get him. Not by a longshot.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,390
11,746
136
Any rich person uses an accountant for this stuff. There is absolutely zero chance that this would fall into any of the 3 buckets below that allows for "Forever Statute"






Need I remind you - the IRS themselves have stated they don't go after rich folks because... well... they have lawyers and they have accountants.


.



Let me assure you - no matter how much you WANT TO BELIEVE! and you continue to tell yourself THIS IS WHATS GOING TO GET HIM!!!..... this won't get him. Not by a longshot.

I agree with you on the last bit. He's a teflon Don...and no matter how bad it looks to the rest of us, his supporters will stick by him and defend him tooth and nail.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,501
136
"Might have grounds to investigate". That's what the fellow said. The exact same thing can be said about every single person in the US that files a return. All they have to do is get all of Trumps tax records (the same tax records the IRS already has), go through them, investigate every line item, and hope to find evidence of a crime. This is a fishing expedition.
They have direct testimony from an associate that says he is likely engaging in tax fraud as well as documentary evidence he participated in tax fraud in the past.

What planet are you living on.

Edit: this is like the whole Russian collusion thing where you kept denying it even after authoritative report after authoritative report showed it in detail.
 
Last edited:
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,501
136
Any rich person uses an accountant for this stuff. There is absolutely zero chance that this would fall into any of the 3 buckets below that allows for "Forever Statute"






Need I remind you - the IRS themselves have stated they don't go after rich folks because... well... they have lawyers and they have accountants.


.

Let me assure you - no matter how much you WANT TO BELIEVE! and you continue to tell yourself THIS IS WHATS GOING TO GET HIM!!!..... this won't get him. Not by a longshot.
Thank you for admitting what everyone already knew, that you were wrong about the statute of limitations. What has been alleged would absolutely fall into the ‘forever bucket’ in multiple categories, if true.

As for whether or not the IRS would go after him that’s irrelevant. What IS relevant is if New York State authorities would go after him. The IRS doesn’t gain much by doing it because as you say, rich people have lawyers and it’s a lot of work. Any politician with greater ambitions in New York State has a LOT to gain by prosecuting Trump however. If there’s a case to be made I think there’s a good chance they do it.

Want to be the next governor? Put Trump in prison. You’re a shoo-in.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
Thank you for admitting what everyone already knew, that you were wrong about the statute of limitations. What has been alleged would absolutely fall into the ‘forever bucket’ in multiple categories, if true.

Do you have problems reading or just basic comprehension skills?

I'm flat out telling you - this won't go anywhere. Place a bet on it.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,868
34,815
136
Thank you for admitting what everyone already knew, that you were wrong about the statute of limitations. What has been alleged would absolutely fall into the ‘forever bucket’ in multiple categories, if true.

As for whether or not the IRS would go after him that’s irrelevant. What IS relevant is if New York State authorities would go after him. The IRS doesn’t gain much by doing it because as you say, rich people have lawyers and it’s a lot of work. Any politician with greater ambitions in New York State has a LOT to gain by prosecuting Trump however. If there’s a case to be made I think there’s a good chance they do it.

Want to be the next governor? Put Trump in prison. You’re a shoo-in.

I always figured that NYS charges seemed the most likely for the above reasons and that they're probably committing fraud in NYS this very minute.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,642
5,329
136
They have direct testimony from an associate that says he is likely engaging in tax fraud as well as documentary evidence he participated in tax fraud in the past.

What planet are you living on.

Edit: this is like the whole Russian collusion thing where you kept denying it even after authoritative report after authoritative report showed it in detail.
Why wasn't Trump impeached for colluding with Russia? It was demonstrated in "authoritative" reports, the evidence must exist.

As for the current issue, if they have a credible accusation then there should be an investigation. That investigation will almost certainly start with the CPA firm that handles Trumps finances. Or take whatever they have right now and present it to a grand jury, let them decide.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,501
136
Do you have problems reading or just basic comprehension skills?

I'm flat out telling you - this won't go anywhere. Place a bet on it.
Nope, but it appears you do! This is not the first time. Also, you ‘flat out tell’ people a lot of wrong things, haha. Remember when you flat out told us how China was going to capitulate to Trump? Lol. How did that turn out?

In New York State there is not only the ability to prosecute Trump as much of his business is there, there is a direct political incentive to do so. I certainly wouldn’t guarantee it would happen but I think it’s a fairly likely outcome.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,501
136
Why wasn't Trump impeached for colluding with Russia? It was demonstrated in "authoritative" reports, the evidence must exist.
Whether or not Democrats decided it was politically wise to impeach him over it means nothing as to if the evidence exists.

You have been told this repeatedly, it’s in multiple official documents, you can read the source material yourself: in Trump’s own tower his eldest son, son in law, and campaign manager met with representatives they knew to be agents of the Russian government for the purpose of obtaining election help. That is the dictionary definition of collusion. There’s tons of other evidence but this event is so black and white obvious that no rational person can deny it.

As for the current issue, if they have a credible accusation then there should be an investigation. That investigation will almost certainly start with the CPA firm that handles Trumps finances. Or take whatever they have right now and present it to a grand jury, let them decide.
That’s what they are trying to do! Who knows, maybe Trump decided to stop committing tax fraud after being documented doing it for years and not getting punished (lol).

Regardless, one of Trump’s close associates has informed prosecutors that Trump is engaging in conduct that likely amounts to tax fraud. It is not a fishing expedition to follow up on that lead - it would be misconduct not to.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,578
7,639
136
As for whether or not the IRS would go after him that’s irrelevant. What IS relevant is if New York State authorities would go after him.

Wouldn't a filthy rich company owner simply hire accountants and lawyers to handle paying taxes?
How much of it is actually done by Trump personally?

It seems rather odd that a man at that level would ever touch such documents, handle such filings, or be criminally liable for them. But then - it is Trump we are talking about. His narcissism probably had him giving orders over such an important aspect of the business. Interesting case to dig into if they go for it.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,390
11,746
136
Wouldn't a filthy rich company owner simply hire accountants and lawyers to handle paying taxes?
How much of it is actually done by Trump personally?

It seems rather odd that a man at that level would ever touch such documents, handle such filings, or be criminally liable for them. But then - it is Trump we are talking about. His narcissism probably had him giving orders over such an important aspect of the business. Interesting case to dig into if they go for it.

IIRC, once you sign your tax returns, no matter who does the actual work of filling them out, you are legally responsible for the content. Yes, you have the right to defend both the return and its contents, and to defend yourself should your tax preparer have filed improperly...but in the end, it still lands in your lap.

As an example...if you, as a taxpayer, have H&R Block do your taxes. (having worked there for one season, I DO NOT advise it, but whatever)You present them with all the necessary information to prepare your taxes...but the preparer makes a mistake...The IRS doesn't go after Block...they come after you. YOU did nothing wrong...yet it's still your tax return, so you're responsible. Rich people use CPA's and tax lawyers instead of H&R Block...and they're probably MUCH better at the accounting tricks and tax cheats...but in the end, once the tax payer signs that return...........
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,501
136
Wouldn't a filthy rich company owner simply hire accountants and lawyers to handle paying taxes?
How much of it is actually done by Trump personally?

It seems rather odd that a man at that level would ever touch such documents, handle such filings, or be criminally liable for them. But then - it is Trump we are talking about. His narcissism probably had him giving orders over such an important aspect of the business. Interesting case to dig into if they go for it.
Trump would be 100% liable for them - you can’t avoid criminal responsibility for tax evasion by hiring someone to do it for you. Also, accountants who want to remain in business are not in the habit of implicating their clients in tax fraud schemes without their knowledge.
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,642
5,329
136
Whether or not Democrats decided it was politically wise to impeach him over it means nothing as to if the evidence exists.

You have been told this repeatedly, it’s in multiple official documents, you can read the source material yourself: in Trump’s own tower his eldest son, son in law, and campaign manager met with representatives they knew to be agents of the Russian government for the purpose of obtaining election help. That is the dictionary definition of collusion. There’s tons of other evidence but this event is so black and white obvious that no rational person can deny it.


That’s what they are trying to do! Who knows, maybe Trump decided to stop committing tax fraud after being documented doing it for years and not getting punished (lol).

Regardless, one of Trump’s close associates has informed prosecutors that Trump is engaging in conduct that likely amounts to tax fraud. It is not a fishing expedition to follow up on that lead - it would be misconduct not to.
You're really going to take the position that congress had credible evidence of collusion with the Russian government and decided not to act on it? Is anyone on the planet dumb enough to believe that?
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,501
136
You're really going to take the position that congress had credible evidence of collusion with the Russian government and decided not to act on it? Is anyone on the planet dumb enough to believe that?
I’m confused as to what you’re asking here. The evidence of collusion is ironclad - the parties on Trump’s side don’t even dispute it! You can literally go read the emails agreeing to collude right now where the Russians say ‘we want to give you dirt on Clinton as part of the Russian government’s support for Trump’ and Trump Jr. says ‘great!’.

What Congress chooses to do or not do is irrelevant - the evidence is staring you in the face and it is incontrovertible.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,390
11,746
136
You're really going to take the position that congress had credible evidence of collusion with the Russian government and decided not to act on it? Is anyone on the planet dumb enough to believe that?

If the Democrats had such incontrovertible proof, they'd have screamed it from the rooftops. If the Republicans had the same info, they'd have swept it under the rug and "there's nothing to see here...move along."
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,501
136
If the Democrats had such incontrovertible proof, they'd have screamed it from the rooftops. If the Republicans had the same info, they'd have swept it under the rug and "there's nothing to see here...move along."
Trump.
Jr.
Himself.
Released.
It.


President Donald Trump's eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., agreed to meet with someone he believed to be a "Russian government attorney" last summer after receiving an email offering him "very high level and sensitive information" that would "incriminate" Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton, according to emails the younger Trump publicly released on Tuesday.
I simply cannot believe this is still being argued.
 
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