Trump, the "Zero Hour". (Article in Press in Germany after Merkel Visit)

flexy

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(Article from Germany's "biggest" newspaper, run through Google translate and cleaned it up a little so it's readable) Sums things nicely up... This is after the Merkel visit and what Germany/Germans and the rest of Europe I guess are thinking...)

Trump sees himself as "Zero Hour"


Relationship Status: It's complicated.

For the first time since the end of the Second World War, millions of Americans like a German leader much more than their own president. For the first time, you can hear: The US President met the leader of the free Western world.

Normally, America would ask the question: Does the new one like the Chancellor? But now many ask themselves: Does the Chancellor like the new one?

After Merkel's visit to US President Donald Trump, the question arises: Will Trump try to become as big as Merkel? Or will he try to make her small? Will envy or ambition drive him?

Reception at an unassuming side-entrance to the White House, a handshake that did not exist, a NSA joke at the press conference - Trumps liberal critics in the US see his behavior at the Merkel visit as an insult to the Chancellor.

At the press conference, you couldn't tell whether the Chancellor felt awkward - even as Trump made a joke about the NSA-wiretapping scandal.

New York Times columnist Roger Cohen: "It is absolutely outrageous how Trump treats Merkel. Trump does not like strong women. He can not stand strong women. And he is afraid of strong, competent, smart women like Angela Merkel. "


"It's obvious that he hates her," says late-night talker Bill Maher. "And as we all know he's so incredibly good at hiding this ..."

CNN commentator and US General Mark Hertling: "I apologize to all my German friends for the rude treatment of Chancellor Merkel. This is the opposite of what we are. "

Ex-US ambassador Michael McFaul about Trump's refused hand-shake: "This petty insult is inexcusable."

The beginning of a wonderful friendship is usually different. And the world currently could use a stable German-American friendship between the German Chancellery and the Oval Office.

However, Chancellor Merkel doesn't see Trump's behaviour as dramatic as American commentators do. Being unaffected is one of her greatest strengths. And those who are quickly offended in politics (like Trump), who measure their own importance with the handshake to others, make themselves small.

Merkel's team seemed rather eerily fascinated by Trumps's appearance, similarly captivated as if one watches a Tarantino movie with its shudder aesthetics.


The puppet-like-beautiful daughter Ivanka who, without any official position, is sitting at the table next to Merkel and praising the president: "I applaud my father for his determination to create millions of jobs."

The president, who listens to German business leaders with his arms crossed, who only lights up when his daughter speaks.

In the background, gloomy looking advisor Steve Bannon who wants to create a new America with Trump.

Merkel and her team also seemed more amused by Trump's joke that they at least had something in common, that both had been wiretapped by the Obama administration. The question here however is when not being concerned becomes careless. Carelessness for the fact that our world is changing for the worse. On one hand, a joke it sure is, yes.

But, on the other hand, the man who once was seen as being the leader of the free world, used the public stage with the chancellor to repeat an accusation which, according to all that is known, is untrue or false. An accusation which dictators use if they want to discredit and then arrest their unpopular predecessors.

"Trump draws foreign allies into his play of confusion about wiretapping without evidence", the Washington Post writes.

And many other things that Trump said standing next to Merkel had been something between wrong, untrue and false.


Germany's subcontractors had negotiated better economic agreements with the USA than the Americans?

There are no economic agreements and it's not Germany which is negotiating with the US, but the EU.


Many NATO members would owe NATO "huge sums of money from recent years"?

One can not owe any money to NATO, only to one's own defense budget.

Trump changes the world in which we live. The most powerful man in the world has declared war on the concept of facts, and this is noticeable when one enters his White House.

His time begins with him. He knows no historical alliances, commitments and traditions. He is himself the Zero Hour. He is his standard. What he says, is. What he does not say, is not. What shouldn't be cannot be said in his presence. He is without history, except for his own.

This is not the West that America symbolizes. This is not what we stand for. So begins the darkness. "Democracy dies in the dark" has been the new slogan of the "Washington Post" since Trumps was inaugurated.

Every new US president has the right (and also the electoral mandate) to shape the country according to his ideas. But no one has the right to reduce America to himself and his own world view.

Every US president has the right to love his daughter and think that she's brilliant. But this is not enough to put the destiny of a nation, a world order, in her hands. Democrats are accountable. Trump doesn't know accountability.

"Well, people are different," Merkel said at the end about Trump. But they were both elected to represent the different interests of their countries. Ever since the US president's name is Donald Trump, such a sentence sounds quite normal.


With the United States it was always about the common things, the unifying things. Even a Trump must be given time so he can find his way. But America, it seems, has become darker.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
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I remember when righties would complain that Obama was making us weaker or was an embarrassment and of course it was based on nothing. Now we've got trump and he is exactly what they claimed Obama to be and its not just partisan talk, the guy is an embarrassment and he is weakening our influence in the world.

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
 
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justoh

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Jun 11, 2013
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Article describes her as smart and competent, yet Merkel describes herself as "a serious christian." An evangelical. In 2017. Seems like a bit of a contradiction. And why is her English so awful?

It's ironic that Trump couldn't have been elected without people like Merkel. Blame the christians.

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/christian-right-donald-trump

The Christian right’s adherents, on the other hand, include tens of millions of the most disciplined voters in the country. And there’s a very good case to be made that they won Trump the election. Just look at the numbers.

In 2016, white evangelical Christians composed 26 percent of the electorate—just as they did in 2012, 2008, and 2004.

And their quarter of the total vote in 2016 went 81-16 percent for the Republican. This gave Donald Trump a slightly bigger share of evangelicals than Mitt Romney, the pious Mormon, in 2012, or war hero John McCain in 2008. Trump even slightly outdid George W. Bush’s 2004 share, even though W identified as a born-again Christian.

According to exit polls, these numbers and proportions meant that the evangelical vote alone almost entirely negated Clinton’s advantage among nonwhites. (Of the 29 percent of voters who were nonwhite, Clinton got 74 percent of the vote.)

And while there’s been a lot of talk about the “white working class” and its grievances, other figures suggest that the combination of race and religious identity may have been even more potent.

According to the Public Religion Research Institute, “the proportion of white Christians in each of the 50 states is more strongly correlated with support for Trump than is the proportion of white residents without a college degree in the state.” If we use education as a proxy for class, in the states that flipped Trump it mattered less than religion.

The places where Trump outperformed expectations to clinch the election—like Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Iowa—all have white Christian majorities.
 
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amyklai

Senior member
Nov 11, 2008
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Article describes her as smart and competent, yet Merkel describes herself as "a serious christian." An evangelical. In 2017. Seems like a bit of a contradiction. And why is her English so awful?

Her English is bad because she grew up in communist Eastern Germany, where Russian was the foreign language to learn.

It's ironic that Trump couldn't have been elected without people like Merkel. Blame the christians.

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/christian-right-donald-trump

There's a pretty gigantic difference between European christian democrats and the American evangelicals / christian right. On most aspects, Merkel's CDU is clearly to the left of the Democrats (which would be considered a far-right party on a lot of issues in a European context). And Merkel has personally been pushing her party farther and farther to the left.
The people who *would* consider voting for somebody like Trump are voting for populist far-right parties like the AfD, and in their eyes, Merkel is the impersonation of the devil himself.
 
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justoh

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Her English is bad because she grew up in communist Eastern Germany, where Russian was the foreign language to learn.



There's a pretty gigantic difference between European christian democrats and the American evangelicals / christian right. On most aspects, Merkel's CDU is clearly to the left of the Democrats (which would be considered a far-right party on a lot of issues in a European context). And Merkel has personally been pushing her party farther and farther to the left.
The people who *would* consider voting for somebody like Trump are voting for populist far-right parties like the AfD, and in their eyes, Merkel is the impersonation of the devil himself.

Growing up in East Germany isn't an excuse for not learning English later in life, especially if you're both an important politician as well as a research scientist, and those differences you mention aren't as important as what they have in common: they're stupid

Do you deny that Trump couldn't have won without Christian support?
 

Meghan54

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Oct 18, 2009
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Growing up in East Germany isn't an excuse for not learning English later in life, especially if you're both an important politician as well as a research scientist, and those differences you mention aren't as important as what they have in common: they're stupid

So what? I'm sure you speak fluent German so your criticism is appropriate, right?
 
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amyklai

Senior member
Nov 11, 2008
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Growing up in East Germany isn't an excuse for not learning English later in life, especially if you're both an important politician as well as a research scientist, and those differences you mention aren't as important as what they have in common: they're stupid

Do you deny that Trump couldn't have won without Christian support?

The Berlin wall fell in November 1989, that's when Eastern Germany started leaving the Russian sphere of influence and when English might've become interesting for her.

Merkel became politically active pretty much right away, Germany was reunified in October 1990 and by January 1991 she was federal Minister for Women and Youth under Helmut Kohl. From then on, she was involved in top-level politics, which is pretty time consuming - and which also allows you to make use of professional translators whenever necessary.

I'm not sure where or at what point she should've learned English with that biography- and whether you have a leg to stand on if you want to attribute intellectual laziness to a person just because she happens to speak Russian better than English.
 
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VRAMdemon

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Well, at first he loved her.

Then, TIME picked her as Person of the Year in 2015, which led to
Twitter crying.

Then there was her catastrophic mistake.

But hey, he's doubling down on OBAMA TAPPPED MY PHONES!

My guess is the meeting didn't go the way he wanted. Maybe she wasn't having the Trump charm? Or maybe she didn't suck up enough? Or at all? And maybe he doesn't fancy a mature woman trying to school him, no matter how minimal or needed. Or just not buying his bullshit. At that press conference, when Merkel is speaking, look at his body language - stooped, pouty, jittery. The man is a big baby, without a single diplomatic bone in his body. The man may have a huge ego, but he's really all id.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
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Article describes her as smart and competent, yet Merkel describes herself as "a serious christian." An evangelical. In 2017. Seems like a bit of a contradiction. And why is her English so awful?

It's ironic that Trump couldn't have been elected without people like Merkel. Blame the christians.

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/christian-right-donald-trump

And... divert, as usual. "Evangelical" doesn't mean the same thing in Germany as it does in the US-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelical_Church_in_Germany#Name

It doesn't really matter, anyway. Trump is a mess & his meeting with Merkel merely proves it.
 
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fskimospy

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Mar 10, 2006
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Growing up in East Germany isn't an excuse for not learning English later in life, especially if you're both an important politician as well as a research scientist, and those differences you mention aren't as important as what they have in common: they're stupid

Do you deny that Trump couldn't have won without Christian support?

If you're going to keep trolling this place so obviously can you at least make your trolls more interesting?

I'm fine with stupid posts as long as they aren't boring. Try to at least hit one of the two.
 
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justoh

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Jun 11, 2013
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And... divert, as usual. "Evangelical" doesn't mean the same thing in Germany as it does in the US-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelical_Church_in_Germany#Name

It doesn't really matter, anyway. Trump is a mess & his meeting with Merkel merely proves it.

How about "Christian?" You don't have to be identical to be alike, so "people like Merkel" is fine. In the next/final sentence I omitted the word "evangelical" to avoid this kind of confusion.

The U.S is a mess. The EU is a mess. All because of those damn Christians. I don't care if you call me a racist for saying it.
 

emperus

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Commodus

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The Merkel meeting (not to mention that Q&A with German reporters) underscored a key point: at his heart, Trump is a childish coward. He bullies people so long as they can't or won't fight back, but the moment they can stand up to him, he shrivels away.

That's part of why he's so annoyed by the mainstream media and protests. He's used to being a CEO, where he can simply fire people who call him out on lies and bad decisions; he can't fire the press or the public. The most he can do is, well, what he's doing now: hide from outlets that will challenge his false claims, worship the ones that tell him what he wants to hear and pretend that he isn't broadly hated by the American public.
 

justoh

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Jun 11, 2013
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Why is her English so awful? She is German. Does Trump even speak German?

In CH we need immigrants (particularly the Germans) just to function, so we have a lot of them, of all ages. I've honestly never met any who aren't reasonably proficient in English, and we all use German here in the North, so they don't need to be. In any case it was an aside. If I thought it more important I wouldn't have placed that sentence after the one pointing out the contradiction between the article's claim that she was "smart" and the reality of the situation. The main point was that she's a religious physicist. There are so few of them for a reason, and I don't think people who hold ridiculous beliefs should be running countries.

There's an argument to be made that they should, since they represent the people who vote for them, which is the point of a democracy, but in that case we should stop saying that Trump shouldn't be president. Stupid people. Stupid president. What's the problem?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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In CH we need immigrants (particularly the Germans) just to function, so we have a lot of them, of all ages. I've honestly never met any who aren't reasonably proficient in English, and we all use German here in the North, so they don't need to be. In any case it was an aside. If I thought it more important I wouldn't have placed that sentence after the one pointing out the contradiction between the article's claim that she was "smart" and the reality of the situation. The main point was that she's a religious physicist. There are so few of them for a reason, and I don't think people who hold ridiculous beliefs should be running countries.

There's an argument to be made that they should, since they represent the people who vote for them, which is the point of a democracy, but in that case we should stop saying that Trump shouldn't be president. Stupid people. Stupid president. What's the problem?

Deciding that someone with demonstrated intellect is categorically stupid because they profess religious faith is far stupider than being religious. Many, many far smarter people than either of us have been religious. Because you hold opinions that are clearly much stupider than hers you are clearly unable to judge her intellect based on them.

I always find it funny when dumb people try to call their clear intellectual superiors stupid. Inferiority complexes are sad things to see.
 
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justoh

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Jun 11, 2013
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Deciding that someone with demonstrated intellect is categorically stupid because they profess religious faith is far stupider than being religious. Many, many far smarter people than either of us have been religious. Because you hold opinions that are clearly much stupider than hers you are clearly unable to judge her intellect based on them.

I always find it funny when dumb people try to call their clear intellectual superiors stupid. Inferiority complexes are sad things to see.

There are plenty of stupid intelligent people. It's helpful not to conflate the two. Think of intelligence as potential. In order to develop this potential one needs to put in some effort. It's already quite telling that she was a christian in communist East Germany, demonstrating how stubborn she is. Her father is partially to blame for that, as a Lutheran pastor.

I never stated she was unintelligent. There are many intelligent religious people, but they're all stupid.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
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There are plenty of stupid intelligent people. It's helpful not to conflate the two. Think of intelligence as potential. In order to develop this potential one needs to put in some effort. It's already quite telling that she was a christian in communist East Germany, demonstrating how stubborn she is. Her father is partially to blame for that, as a Lutheran pastor.

I never stated she was unintelligent. There are many intelligent religious people, but they're all stupid.

Keep diverting. The thread isn't about Merkel. She knows how to act in her official capacity. Trump obviously doesn't. He's a national disgrace & the people who voted him into office are much the same.
 
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