Trump to AOC + progressives in Congress: Why don't you go back to where you came from.. you can't leave fast enough!

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esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
23,785
4,965
146
The lying pig can't even keep his invectives straight.
Trump fumes over Ilhan Omar's 'welcome home' crowd
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-fumes-over-media-coverage-of-omars-welcome-home-134635880.html

Claims he was "against" the chant of "send her back"", yet he continues to follow her every move.
He's mad because her constituency rallied behind her and the news showed it on TV

He then called Omar "foul mouthed", AFAIK, she never said anything profane about the lard ass cheeto.
It was Tlaib that said "We’re going to impeach the motherfucker ", not Omar.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,332
15,128
136
The lying pig can't even keep his invectives straight.
Trump fumes over Ilhan Omar's 'welcome home' crowd
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-fumes-over-media-coverage-of-omars-welcome-home-134635880.html

Claims he was "against" the chant of "send her back"", yet he continues to follow her every move.
He's mad because her constituency rallied behind her and the news showed it on TV

He then called Omar "foul mouthed", AFAIK, she never said anything profane about the lard ass cheeto.
It was Tlaib that said "We’re going to impeach the motherfucker ", not Omar.

I'm curious what was the hateful anti American thing she said.
 
Reactions: ch33zw1z

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,684
24,998
136
Correct me if I'm wrong. Trump walked it back slightly and then he reversed himself again?

Same shit he did during Charlottesville. His people are so stupid they don't realize it.
He won’t let political correctness silence him from being a bigoted asshole.

His base loves him for it. They embrace the worst parts of America instead of the best parts of our country.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,572
7,823
136
The facts are that the things the "extreme left" advocates for (universal healthcare, raising taxes on ultra-wealthy etc) poll extremely well with all voters. It's only Trump and his stooges calling it "extreme left" and then the corporate media parrots it without any analysis.

OK...So what is the "proper" label here?..perhaps, the "progressive left"? Is that satisfactory? Are you guys suggesting there is no progressive wing of the Democratic party?...Are all Democrats progressive?...Do you suggest that these different factions in the Dem party don't exist and are media creations? I see an awful lot of moderate dems, left of center Dems and even a few right of center Dems. I see alot of swing state Dems and it's pretty obvious they do not see eye to eye. Hell, they can't agree on border funding and they couldn't EVEN agree to impeach the most corrupt, no nothing, racist POS to ever step foot in the white house. Pathetic!

The progressive wing have singled themselves out by self proclaiming themselves with a "label" - "the squad" which is fine, but it sets them up for attack to be the prominent political boogymen for Team Trump and they will escalate their assault on the lawmakers as “socialist extremists” and “communists” who “hate America”, and want to turn it into Venezuela. Part of a strategy to tar an entire party. And it's obvious this is the GOP/Team Trumps path.

Do you guys think Obama's analysis on this has no merit?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-progressives-circular-firing-squad-democrats

“One of the things I do worry about sometimes among progressives in the United States,” he said, “maybe it’s true here as well, is a certain kind of rigidity where we say, ‘Uh, I’m sorry, this is how it’s going to be’ and then we start sometimes creating what’s called a ‘circular firing squad’, where you start shooting at your allies because one of them has strayed from purity on the issues.

“And when that happens, typically the overall effort and movement weakens.”

Trump is what is in place and change the progressives and Dems want is not - Trump cannot place himself as a change agent after being in office for nearly a term. He's made his changes and this is what they are: the swamp is deeper and shittier; discord and division are the order of the day; farmers are only staying afloat on government handouts as Trump's incompetence has destroyed the trade they require; our long time alliances are fracturing; our water, air, and food are not as safe; healthcare is at risk for more and more; the richest are hoarding more more of the wealth and the power.

Trumpism is the government norm now and it has delivered the above. The Democrat runs to change from that. To deliver this change: a government that tries to be the government of us all and that helps us all have each others' backs with decency not reality TV snark, one that actually gets shit done for the good of us all. And no one will be able to sell this type of change to these myopic voters if all they do is deal with the tsunami of bullshit that will be showered on them by DJT and the GOP. Staying on message about change and how to bring it about will be difficult while all they do is respond to his BS.

Focus on ideas and policies that are intended to help Americans - be the party/candidate of "getting things done" for the American people (it's one of the reasons that I favor Warren as we speak - it is impossible to listen to her talk about plans and not come away thinking that she wants to make changes that benefit the average person and has specific ideas on how to get those changes accomplished).

Never mention the opponent - When you need to talk about the last 4 years, refer to the "vacuum of leadership" or the "lack of a leader" in America, but try to avoid saying Trump's name or talking about what he has done. The message is what you want to do going forward, with that emphasis on taking action.

Make your positive advertising similarly optimistic and oriented to programs and ideas that make the average person feel like there are things to be done to make their lives better.

You or I aren't the people who will be "bought/Sold a bill goods" with a narrative of a "extreme left". It's the gullible mealy mouthed middle of independents and the on the fencers who voted Obama and then Trump. These people don't care how much of a dick Trump is, they don't care about his racism. in fact they know he's a dick and a corrupt, horrible person - they - just - don't - care. All they care about is the money is coming in, my 401k is good, my brother has a job now and didn't before Trump and they don't want anything or anyone to fuck that up. They are only worried about things like what is the next new smartphone I'm gonna get. I see these people everyday in our place of business.

Generally, I think people want to vote for a candidate who they think cares about them. Discussing Trump and his failings doesn't get to this desire. So, make the campaign about the ideas and plans you have for the People. Trump, instead, wants to make it a mud slinging contest with people voting for their "side" instead of for improvements and expectations about everyday lives. That's why you don't go to his level; he'll whine and complain about you, distorting your message and calling it a socialist giveaway. You won't win by directly rebutting that nonsense but instead staying above it all. You want the average person to see that Trump is in the mud all by himself while the real adults talk about moving on. Remember this is a gullible, confused electorate.

I don't see the electoral map changing much. I just don't see any states flipping but that could change. What the Democrats have to do to win is to avoid alienating voters in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania who voted for Obama but went to Trump in 2016, or just flat out stayed home because their favorite candidate didn't pass the purity test. It doesn't matter one bit how many more votes the progressive agenda brings in in California, Illinois or New York. Those states will go to the Democrats either way. Hillary lost because the math in the EC didn't work out in her favor. That's the math I'm talking about. The Democrats could pick up millions of votes in CA, IL, NY, MD, NJ, OR, WA, etc and they would still lose if they don't pick up some of the states Trump carried in 2016. The only math that matters is the math in the Electoral College. We don't need AOC's chief of staff or anyone to be throwing verbal grenades at other members of their party. That's just dumb. And they also need to know when they have leverage, and when they don't. If the Democrats don't win those states - TRUMP WILL WIN. The Electoral College sucks but we are stuck with it. It doesn't matter if those voters are onboard with the issues you or I care about most. If Trump gets a second term progressive policy will be dead for a generation because of 2 or 3 SCOTUS appointments he will get at the very least.

I don't think it's a lock that DJT will not be reelected. I don't trust the Democrats. I don't see coalitions I don't see compromise. But I will reserve judgement to see how this plays out because as mentioned, it's early and we don't know who the candidate is that will run against him and how he is being received by America as a whole and particularly the independents and factions of Democrats in these battleground states. Whether you agree with me or not, I just don't like what I see so far. And obviously if things change so does my outlook on the Democratic party.

Trump’s Electoral College Edge Could Grow in 2020, Rewarding Polarizing Campaign

Re-election looks plausible even with a bigger loss in the national popular vote.

Sad to see Milwaukee’s suburbs favor Trump. Bad news overall (though plenty can happen in a year-plus).
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,498
136
I find it interesting that basically everyone, regardless of how far left or right they are, has determined the only way the Democrats can win is by adopting their policy preferences.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,572
7,823
136
I find it interesting that basically everyone, regardless of how far left or right they are, has determined the only way the Democrats can win is by adopting their policy preferences.

Well...I'm just posting my thoughts on a message board. I'm not saying I'm right or will be right. Your analysis is usually spot on. What do you think the best way forward is for a Democratic party with such diverse factions of cultural and political baggage. Are you okay with what you see so far? Do you think it's a lock Trump will lose?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,498
136
Well...I'm just posting my thoughts on a message board. I'm not saying I'm right or will be right. Your analysis is usually spot on. What do you think the best way forward is for a Democratic party with such diverse factions of cultural and political baggage. Are you okay with what you see so far? Do you think it's a lock Trump will lose?

Oh to be clear I’m not trying to talk shit to you, and someone is clearly right but I don’t know who. If I had to guess I would say you’re right.

I just find it funny that all factions of the party think the only way to win is to do whatever it is they already preferred.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,865
34,813
136
Oh to be clear I’m not trying to talk shit to you, and someone is clearly right but I don’t know who. If I had to guess I would say you’re right.

I just find it funny that all factions of the party think the only way to win is to do whatever it is they already preferred.

Such is the nature of a primary season. This is why I'm not getting my panties in a bunch at every twist and turn. The GOP had an absolutely horrendous primary and were rewarded with total control of the government.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,276
8,201
136
I find it interesting that basically everyone, regardless of how far left or right they are, has determined the only way the Democrats can win is by adopting their policy preferences.

Well I'd say there's more to it than just winning one election.

I think the Democrats could win with almost any of their contenders. Who knows anymore? Elections are like the movie business - nobody knows anything.

However, I personally am not convinced a Biden Presidency would solve anything much and the US could be back with Trump mark 2 before very long.

I feel the same about the right-wing of the Labour Party, even if I have loads of reservations about Corbyn. We tried Blairism, it ran into the rocks and Thatcherism just resumed right from where it left off.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,498
136
Well I'd say there's more to it than just winning one election.

I think the Democrats could win with almost any of their contenders. Who knows anymore? Elections are like the movie business - nobody knows anything.

However, I personally am not convinced a Biden Presidency would solve anything much and the US could be back with Trump mark 2 before very long.

I feel the same about the right-wing of the Labour Party, even if I have loads of reservations about Corbyn. We tried Blairism, it ran into the rocks and Thatcherism just resumed right from where it left off.

I think anyone who thinks any of the democratic candidates are going to solve much of anything is probably deluding themselves. Even if they win the presidency the most likely outcome is that Republicans keep the Senate which means Mitch McConnell will prevent any meaningful legislation from being passed.

Now the new Democratic president will be able to do a bunch of stuff through regulation and executive orders but nobody’s making any big changes unless ol’ Mitch is no longer running the senate.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I think anyone who thinks any of the democratic candidates are going to solve much of anything is probably deluding themselves. Even if they win the presidency the most likely outcome is that Republicans keep the Senate which means Mitch McConnell will prevent any meaningful legislation from being passed.

Now the new Democratic president will be able to do a bunch of stuff through regulation and executive orders but nobody’s making any big changes unless ol’ Mitch is no longer running the senate.

Negativity assures defeat.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,613
3,459
136
OK...So what is the "proper" label here?..perhaps, the "progressive left"? Is that satisfactory? Are you guys suggesting there is no progressive wing of the Democratic party?...Are all Democrats progressive?...Do you suggest that these different factions in the Dem party don't exist and are media creations? I see an awful lot of moderate dems, left of center Dems and even a few right of center Dems. I see alot of swing state Dems and it's pretty obvious they do not see eye to eye. Hell, they can't agree on border funding and they couldn't EVEN agree to impeach the most corrupt, no nothing, racist POS to ever step foot in the white house. Pathetic!

The progressive wing have singled themselves out by self proclaiming themselves with a "label" - "the squad" which is fine, but it sets them up for attack to be the prominent political boogymen for Team Trump and they will escalate their assault on the lawmakers as “socialist extremists” and “communists” who “hate America”, and want to turn it into Venezuela. Part of a strategy to tar an entire party. And it's obvious this is the GOP/Team Trumps path.

Do you guys think Obama's analysis on this has no merit?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-progressives-circular-firing-squad-democrats



Trump is what is in place and change the progressives and Dems want is not - Trump cannot place himself as a change agent after being in office for nearly a term. He's made his changes and this is what they are: the swamp is deeper and shittier; discord and division are the order of the day; farmers are only staying afloat on government handouts as Trump's incompetence has destroyed the trade they require; our long time alliances are fracturing; our water, air, and food are not as safe; healthcare is at risk for more and more; the richest are hoarding more more of the wealth and the power.

Trumpism is the government norm now and it has delivered the above. The Democrat runs to change from that. To deliver this change: a government that tries to be the government of us all and that helps us all have each others' backs with decency not reality TV snark, one that actually gets shit done for the good of us all. And no one will be able to sell this type of change to these myopic voters if all they do is deal with the tsunami of bullshit that will be showered on them by DJT and the GOP. Staying on message about change and how to bring it about will be difficult while all they do is respond to his BS.

Focus on ideas and policies that are intended to help Americans - be the party/candidate of "getting things done" for the American people (it's one of the reasons that I favor Warren as we speak - it is impossible to listen to her talk about plans and not come away thinking that she wants to make changes that benefit the average person and has specific ideas on how to get those changes accomplished).

Never mention the opponent - When you need to talk about the last 4 years, refer to the "vacuum of leadership" or the "lack of a leader" in America, but try to avoid saying Trump's name or talking about what he has done. The message is what you want to do going forward, with that emphasis on taking action.

Make your positive advertising similarly optimistic and oriented to programs and ideas that make the average person feel like there are things to be done to make their lives better.

You or I aren't the people who will be "bought/Sold a bill goods" with a narrative of a "extreme left". It's the gullible mealy mouthed middle of independents and the on the fencers who voted Obama and then Trump. These people don't care how much of a dick Trump is, they don't care about his racism. in fact they know he's a dick and a corrupt, horrible person - they - just - don't - care. All they care about is the money is coming in, my 401k is good, my brother has a job now and didn't before Trump and they don't want anything or anyone to fuck that up. They are only worried about things like what is the next new smartphone I'm gonna get. I see these people everyday in our place of business.

Generally, I think people want to vote for a candidate who they think cares about them. Discussing Trump and his failings doesn't get to this desire. So, make the campaign about the ideas and plans you have for the People. Trump, instead, wants to make it a mud slinging contest with people voting for their "side" instead of for improvements and expectations about everyday lives. That's why you don't go to his level; he'll whine and complain about you, distorting your message and calling it a socialist giveaway. You won't win by directly rebutting that nonsense but instead staying above it all. You want the average person to see that Trump is in the mud all by himself while the real adults talk about moving on. Remember this is a gullible, confused electorate.

I don't see the electoral map changing much. I just don't see any states flipping but that could change. What the Democrats have to do to win is to avoid alienating voters in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania who voted for Obama but went to Trump in 2016, or just flat out stayed home because their favorite candidate didn't pass the purity test. It doesn't matter one bit how many more votes the progressive agenda brings in in California, Illinois or New York. Those states will go to the Democrats either way. Hillary lost because the math in the EC didn't work out in her favor. That's the math I'm talking about. The Democrats could pick up millions of votes in CA, IL, NY, MD, NJ, OR, WA, etc and they would still lose if they don't pick up some of the states Trump carried in 2016. The only math that matters is the math in the Electoral College. We don't need AOC's chief of staff or anyone to be throwing verbal grenades at other members of their party. That's just dumb. And they also need to know when they have leverage, and when they don't. If the Democrats don't win those states - TRUMP WILL WIN. The Electoral College sucks but we are stuck with it. It doesn't matter if those voters are onboard with the issues you or I care about most. If Trump gets a second term progressive policy will be dead for a generation because of 2 or 3 SCOTUS appointments he will get at the very least.

I don't think it's a lock that DJT will not be reelected. I don't trust the Democrats. I don't see coalitions I don't see compromise. But I will reserve judgement to see how this plays out because as mentioned, it's early and we don't know who the candidate is that will run against him and how he is being received by America as a whole and particularly the independents and factions of Democrats in these battleground states. Whether you agree with me or not, I just don't like what I see so far. And obviously if things change so does my outlook on the Democratic party.

Trump’s Electoral College Edge Could Grow in 2020, Rewarding Polarizing Campaign

Re-election looks plausible even with a bigger loss in the national popular vote.

Sad to see Milwaukee’s suburbs favor Trump. Bad news overall (though plenty can happen in a year-plus).

That's a long rebuttal for me just saying that the label is bullshit. Policies that are very popular among voters of both parties can't be called extreme. Unless you have an agenda of trying to trick people into buying your extremely unpopular crap like doing fuck-all about healthcare, cutting taxes for Zuckerberg and Bezos, disastrous trade wars, and stealing brown babies to throw them in cages.

Trying to be "republican lite" isn't going to do shit. But I agree we should minimize infighting. Once we have a nominee (whoever it is) everyone has to get on board with the mission of bringing in a win. Bernie bros and their purity tests gave us Dump, we can't make that mistake again.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,177
5,641
146
Correct me if I'm wrong. Trump walked it back slightly and then he reversed himself again?

Same shit he did during Charlottesville. His people are so stupid they don't realize it.

The problem is you're not getting he's reversing the walkback because of his people. But he has to do the walkback so those assholes can howl that he's being respectful so they can keep a straight face when they scream racist shit at their friends on Facebook ("nuh-uh, look he said it was bad/wrong/he's sorry!!!" nevermind him saying I'm not sorry after that). No one is being confused by any of these antics though, which is why none of it matters. There's no one actually on the fence with regards to Turmp being a good or bad person. Most of his ardent supporters regularly admit he's a piece of shit, but they still defend him. That started before Turmp ran (because even though Turmp has rode that sentiment, he's not the one that started it) and it'll continue after he's gone unless basically he literally commits the Holocaust. I really think that sadly the only way this changes is something bigger than the Oklahoma City bombing, where it shakes these fucking idiots out of their racism-drunk stupor while the rest of society gives them such a resounding fuck you that it leads to post Nazi Germany like sentiment with regards to any white supremacist shit. Without it, at best we're just gonna kick the can down the road again until we have a major societal upheaval which forces us to have to address (think Civil Rights Movement) the issue. Which even that was just kicking the can down the road. Hell the fucking Civil War even accomplished nothing more than kicking it down the road. I don't know that there's anything that will change the bigotry and racism in America. It has never gone away, it just slinks into the shadows and festers as it regains strength, then bursts out wreaking havoc before people go "goddamnit" then do basically the bare minimum about it and the moment it slinks away again they go back to being willfully obtuse and getting pissed off that anyone even dares claim there's still racism/sexism/etc.
 
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SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
Trump is what is in place and change the progressives and Dems want is not - Trump cannot place himself as a change agent after being in office for nearly a term.

Yes he can, and he will. He is going to make bold claims, lie about what he has already accomplished, and promise the moon if reelected. He will blame any and all his problems on the Democrats and claim that after this election, when the Republicans take the House back (it doesn't matter how unlikely that is, he will tell people it will happen) he will fix all their problems with a wave of his orange hand. You seem to still think that this election is going to deal in reality. It is not. This election cycle is all about wish fulfillment. The winner of this election is going to be the one that tells people what they want to hear, no matter how absurd it is.

Never mention the opponent - When you need to talk about the last 4 years, refer to the "vacuum of leadership" or the "lack of a leader" in America, but try to avoid saying Trump's name or talking about what he has done. The message is what you want to do going forward, with that emphasis on taking action.

It sounds like a good idea but it won't work. Here is why: Trump is going to make absurd claims. He is going to claim he has solved world hunger, everyone is going to be rich, and he, and only he, can solve all of your problems. He has already told us he will cure AIDS, but only if we reelect him. He is going to tell people that his opponent is actually three orangutans in a trench coat. Then when the news asks the Democratic candidate about all that they have two options, they either address all the absurd things Trump talks about and play into his game, or they get 10 seconds of air time before the news cuts back to Trump for the rest of the half hour. Because Trump is entertaining, and the news does not give two shits about truth, they care about rating, and telling the truth does not get rating, entertainment does. That is why I say that Democrats need to be even more outlandish than Trump. Promise everything, for free.

I think anyone who thinks any of the democratic candidates are going to solve much of anything is probably deluding themselves. Even if they win the presidency the most likely outcome is that Republicans keep the Senate which means Mitch McConnell will prevent any meaningful legislation from being passed.

Now the new Democratic president will be able to do a bunch of stuff through regulation and executive orders but nobody’s making any big changes unless ol’ Mitch is no longer running the senate.

I'm not so sure. With all the precedence that Trump has been setting I think an actually competent administration might not even need Congress to do whatever they want. As long as Congress is split it seems the power of the Presidency is unlimited.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,572
7,823
136
Yes he can, and he will. He is going to make bold claims, lie about what he has already accomplished, and promise the moon if reelected. He will blame any and all his problems on the Democrats and claim that after this election, when the Republicans take the House back (it doesn't matter how unlikely that is, he will tell people it will happen) he will fix all their problems with a wave of his orange hand. You seem to still think that this election is going to deal in reality. It is not. This election cycle is all about wish fulfillment. The winner of this election is going to be the one that tells people what they want to hear, no matter how absurd it is.



It sounds like a good idea but it won't work. Here is why: Trump is going to make absurd claims. He is going to claim he has solved world hunger, everyone is going to be rich, and he, and only he, can solve all of your problems. He has already told us he will cure AIDS, but only if we reelect him. He is going to tell people that his opponent is actually three orangutans in a trench coat. Then when the news asks the Democratic candidate about all that they have two options, they either address all the absurd things Trump talks about and play into his game, or they get 10 seconds of air time before the news cuts back to Trump for the rest of the half hour. Because Trump is entertaining, and the news does not give two shits about truth, they care about rating, and telling the truth does not get rating, entertainment does. That is why I say that Democrats need to be even more outlandish than Trump. Promise everything, for free.



I'm not so sure. With all the precedence that Trump has been setting I think an actually competent administration might not even need Congress to do whatever they want. As long as Congress is split it seems the power of the Presidency is unlimited.

Well...The people you describe in your second paragraph, are...well - unreachable. They are already in the bag for Trump.There are some rational Democrats and independents that won't buy his bullshit or play his games. The trick will be making sure they don't stay home because the candidate they prefer didn't make the cut.

I'm sure your being sarcastic, but I'm thinking promising everything for free is what Trump wants the Dems to campaign on?
 

jmagg

Platinum Member
Nov 21, 2001
2,059
386
126
Focus on ideas and policies that are intended to help Americans - be the party/candidate of "getting things done" for the American people (it's one of the reasons that I favor Warren as we speak - it is impossible to listen to her talk about plans and not come away thinking that she wants to make changes that benefit the average person and has specific ideas on how to get those changes accomplished).

Bravo.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,865
34,813
136
Trump's political instincts on this one may be slightly oversold...


 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,572
7,823
136
Trump's political instincts on this one may be slightly oversold...


View attachment 8827

The mud is Trump's natural environment. But the deeper Trump gets in the mud, the more trouble he has with all the voters who aren't muddy.

Trump's might even be stupid enough to be blinded by his rallies and he thinks that the people who show up and cheer for him constitute a majority. But he's losing support from outside his base, even among the swing voters who might vote for a different Republican.

Every four years, "Real" Americans are stunned to re-discover that other Americans exist
 
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