Trump to enact $50 billion in tariffs against China, threatening $100b more

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,884
34,847
136
No, he loves protectionism. He genuinely thinks that he can rebalance all US trade deficits to positive and that it wold be a good thing with no repercussions (trade wars).

The Chinese will retaliate but selectively for political damage like Europe has suggested. They'll hit US manufacturing (planes, cars, heavy equipment) and agriculture to start. Ag alone is worth $20B a year in exports to US producers and even a partial cut of that will be devastating.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,526
136
No, he loves protectionism. He genuinely thinks that he can rebalance all US trade deficits to positive and that it wold be a good thing with no repercussions (trade wars).

The Chinese will retaliate but selectively for political damage like Europe has suggested. They'll hit US manufacturing (planes, cars, heavy equipment) and agriculture to start. Ag alone is worth $20B a year in exports to US producers and even a partial cut of that will be devastating.

It’s surreal how we seem to be entering into a worldwide trade war of sorts literally because the president of the US doesn’t know how international trade works.

Not a difference of opinion, not a rational policy that I happen to disagree with, he literally doesn’t know how it works.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,710
25,046
136
No, he loves protectionism. He genuinely thinks that he can rebalance all US trade deficits to positive and that it wold be a good thing with no repercussions (trade wars).

The Chinese will retaliate but selectively for political damage like Europe has suggested. They'll hit US manufacturing (planes, cars, heavy equipment) and agriculture to start. Ag alone is worth $20B a year in exports to US producers and even a partial cut of that will be devastating.

Farmers will be doubly hosed. Their markets will dry up and new equipment will become more expensive. SO MUCH WINNING!
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,884
34,847
136
It’s surreal how we seem to be entering into a worldwide trade war of sorts literally because the president of the US doesn’t know how international trade works.

Not a difference of opinion, not a rational policy that I happen to disagree with, he literally doesn’t know how it works.

A deep understanding of policy issues hasn't exactly been a hallmark of Trump governance.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,884
34,847
136
Farmers will be doubly hosed. Their markets will dry up and new equipment will become more expensive. SO MUCH WINNING!

If the NAFTA talks go down and they lose the Mexican market it will be a total disaster. I'm increasingly thinking that the admin makes a deal with Canada but they basically agree to shaft Mexico who walks. Huge hit to ag and southern state economies.
 
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1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
A day late and a dollar short,

China rope a doped these "profit only matters" corporations to bring over their manufacturing first (because the lowest cost human commodity used to be referred to as a person years ago is good enough to put the widget together no need for an overpaid living wage demanding American that eats into corporate profits),

and it was all fun and games because the only one that got hurt was middle class America but they were somewhat pacified and brainwashed with "always low prices" while the corporate owners reaped the profits with their new found foreign serfs,

then China started going after their family Jewels also known as Intellectual Property through coercion, theft, etc. and now these dumb ass corporations are crying to the TAX payer funded US government to save them from their own greed and stupidity that the Chinese took advantage of by sacrificing their people and environment until they became big enough to tell Western corporations how the game is played and now these corporate fools are begging Trump to save them.

Trump instructed Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer last year to probe allegations that China violates U.S. intellectual property. After seven months of investigation, U.S. officials found strong evidence that China uses foreign-ownership restrictions to compel U.S. companies to transfer technology to Chinese firms, said an official with the U.S. Trade Representative’s office who spoke to reporters Wednesday on condition of anonymity.

The U.S. also suspects Beijing directs firms to invest in the U.S. with the purpose of engineering large-scale transfers of technologies that the Chinese government views as strategic, said the USTR official. The investigation also found strong evidence China supports and conducts cyberattacks on U.S. companies to access trade secrets, according to the official.

American officials have been raising their concerns about China’s IP practices since Bill Clinton was president, and Beijing has repeatedly failed to deliver on promises to reform, said the official, adding the administration is still open to discussing the issue with the government of President Xi Jinping. The official declined to comment on the remedies planned, emphasizing it’s Trump’s decision.
 
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UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,843
9,092
136
A day late and a dollar short,

China rope a doped these "profit only matters" corporations to bring over their manufacturing first (because the lowest cost human commodity used to be referred to as a person years ago is good enough to put the widget together no need for an overpaid living wage demanding American that eats into corporate profits),

and it was all fun and games because the only one that got hurt was middle class America but they were somewhat pacified and brainwashed with "always low prices" while the corporate owners reaped the profits with their new found foreign serfs,

then China started going after their family Jewels also known as Intellectual Property through coercion, theft, etc. and now these dumb ass corporations are crying to the TAX payer funded US government to save them from their own greed and stupidity that the Chinese took advantage of by sacrificing their people and environment until they became big enough to tell Western corporations how the game is played and now these corporate fools are begging Trump to save them.
American manufacturers knew they were making a devil's bargain in order to access Chinese markets (forced joint ventures and IP sharing agreements) but these CEOs did it anyway in the pursuit of profits over American workers' rights. Yes, some tech firms were victims of outright IP theft, but that should have been addressed earlier and I fear China's become too powerful now to hold them accountable.

I actually feel bad for Trump here--he doesn't have lot of options to hold China accountable, but tariffs are too little too late and it isn't his fault that previous administrations (Democrat and Republican) gave China a pass (how they are in the WTO is beyond me.)
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,526
136
American manufacturers knew they were making a devil's bargain in order to access Chinese markets (forced joint ventures and IP sharing agreements) but these CEOs did it anyway in the pursuit of profits over American workers' rights. Yes, some tech firms were victims of outright IP theft, but that should have been addressed earlier and I fear China's become too powerful now to hold them accountable.

I actually feel bad for Trump here--he doesn't have lot of options to hold China accountable, but tariffs are too little too late and it isn't his fault that previous administrations (Democrat and Republican) gave China a pass (how they are in the WTO is beyond me.)

The way to hold China accountable was to get other countries to collectively work to restrain China. That might have been easier had we not declared a trade war on the rest of the world too.

Again though, it seems obvious that Trump doesn't understand how trade works so it's hard to figure out what he's trying to do here.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,884
34,847
136
American manufacturers knew they were making a devil's bargain in order to access Chinese markets (forced joint ventures and IP sharing agreements) but these CEOs did it anyway in the pursuit of profits over American workers' rights. Yes, some tech firms were victims of outright IP theft, but that should have been addressed earlier and I fear China's become too powerful now to hold them accountable.

I actually feel bad for Trump here--he doesn't have lot of options to hold China accountable, but tariffs are too little too late and it isn't his fault that previous administrations (Democrat and Republican) gave China a pass (how they are in the WTO is beyond me.)

Maybe he could have banded together regional US allies with substantial trade links to the US and China in some form of...shall we say "partnership" to address sundry trade issues with China including IP theft.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,526
136
Maybe he could have banded together regional US allies with substantial trade links to the US and China in some form of...shall we say "partnership" to address sundry trade issues with China including IP theft.

Such a trans-oceanic partnership could have great potential. Now we just need to think of a catchy name for it.

Then again, anti-TPP dumbness was not exclusive to Trump.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,884
34,847
136
Such a trans-oceanic partnership could have great potential. Now we just need to think of a catchy name for it.

Then again, anti-TPP dumbness was not exclusive to Trump.

He most effectively mobilized it though. Demonization of multilateral agreements as the root of lost jobs/economic decline of places like the rust belt was kind of his stock in trade.

Tip for the rust belt voters: You would have lost your manufacturing anyway due to lazy entrenched companies and cheaper labor in the US south, where many of your jobs ended up (not just Mexico). Dump Truck isn't going to make it come back.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,843
9,092
136
Such a trans-oceanic partnership could have great potential. Now we just need to think of a catchy name for it.

Then again, anti-TPP dumbness was not exclusive to Trump.

Hillary walking back support didn't mean she wouldn't sign it--she thought it made sense to renegotiate with a new President to see if additional concessions to US interests could be gained.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,526
136
Hillary walking back support didn't mean she wouldn't sign it--she thought it made sense to renegotiate with a new President to see if additional concessions to US interests could be gained.

It was primarily the Bernie people who were against it. I agree that under Clinton it probably would have gone through.

Amazing how many of those 'neoliberal sellout' positions she held that people only later realized were better classified as 'smart'.
 
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bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
I strongly suspect that sometime in the next decade the ability of any president to unilaterally impose tariffs is going to be taken away.

I was going to hold on my stocks but this shit looks really scary. Is anybody dumping stocks yet?
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,843
9,092
136
I strongly suspect that sometime in the next decade the ability of any president to unilaterally impose tariffs is going to be taken away.

I was going to hold on my stocks but this shit looks really scary. Is anybody dumping stocks yet?
And put your money where? Bonds? Gold? Bitcoins? Hell, I'm not even sure that I trust the FDIC under a Trump Administration.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,726
2,501
126
When the sh*t hits the fan on this-for China's retaliation is going to be a lot more painful than the blowhard's actions-I fully expect His Donaldship to start a shooting war as a distraction. There are a number of possibilities but my money is on Venezuela. That's a favorite topic of Pence and would have less serious ramifications than a thermonuclear exchange in Asia.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
When the sh*t hits the fan on this-for China's retaliation is going to be a lot more painful than the blowhard's actions-I fully expect His Donaldship to start a shooting war as a distraction. There are a number of possibilities but my money is on Venezuela. That's a favorite topic of Pence and would have less serious ramifications than a thermonuclear exchange in Asia.

China can't retaliate without harming itself perhaps even more than it harms America. There is a rather strong argument that China has gotten the better end of trade with America for more than a decade.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,345
15,156
136
China can't retaliate without harming itself perhaps even more than it harms America. There is a rather strong argument that China has gotten the better end of trade with America for more than a decade.

Considering we have a trade surplus with them in various areas like services and agro, I'm pretty sure they can retaliate without shooting themselves in the foot.

I guess when you've been told about runaway inflation and it never showed up, when you've got the power, the only thing to do is to make this predictions come true and that's just what trump is doing. He's making those conspiracies, he believes, come true.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Considering we have a trade surplus with them in various areas like services and agro, I'm pretty sure they can retaliate without shooting themselves in the foot.

I guess when you've been told about runaway inflation and it never showed up, when you've got the power, the only thing to do is to make this predictions come true and that's just what trump is doing. He's making those conspiracies, he believes, come true.

Dude we have a $357 BILLION trade gap with them. They are strangling us in our bed. That is not their fault, they are acting in their own self interest. This has not been mutually beneficial relationship. It is relationship that has benefited China and the American investor class at the expense of the American middle/working classes and America's long term viability/stability.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
It will be interesting to see if China responds by not buying up American debt...... yikes!
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
Dude we have a $357 BILLION trade gap with them. They are strangling us in our bed.


Straight from Trump's mouth into your brain.


Trade is not a zero-sum game. Good trade policy results in benefits for both countries. Tariffs benefit nobody.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,345
15,156
136
Dude we have a $357 BILLION trade gap with them. They are strangling us in our bed. That is not their fault, they are acting in their own self interest. This has not been mutually beneficial relationship. It is relationship that has benefited China and the American investor class at the expense of the American middle/working classes and America's long term viability/stability.

Sorry but no. Automation has hurt the American middle class not cheap goods from China. Automation was a forgone conclusion as its something American companies have been doing since the industrial revolution and would have happened if we went to a completely isolationist policy. Cheap goods raised our standard of living and moved us from a physical to a service based economy.

That's not to say our trade policy between China is perfect, far from it but these tariffs are absolutely stupid and won't do shit for fixing the trade issues we have with China (IP theft being the biggest).
 
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