Trump to end DACA program today reportedly

[Starbuck1975]

I'm glad you brought that up, I'll respond to that one and not that awful Jesus quote. It's important to remember that the current system is broken, the root cause of the parents of the dreamers being here illegally comes down to a few crucial issues. The first being financial inability to afford the fees associated with "fast tracking" your residency and visa application. While there are a lot of great people out there doing pro bono work as immigration lawyers on the side, the amount of people that need help is orders of magnitude more than they can handle. In my earlier post, I mentioned that my family and the church I attended when I was young used to sponsor illegal immigrants to help them. The reason I use the word sponsor is because it is just that, we fund raised for them, and received donations from the congregation to help with legal fees and processing fees. In order to extend your initial work visa or school visa into a residency, you need to find a gainful employer willing to essentially vouch for you and cover the extremely high fees associated with getting a good immigration lawyer. A friend of mine that has been living here from South Korea recently graduated from university and was given the usual 6 month window to find employment that all people with expiring student visa's receive. You think "Yeah, six months is plenty of time to find a job," but then comes the problem with this, you have to find a company willing to sponsor you, in return for sponsorship you are usually asked to take a wage or salary lower than market to offset the cost of sponsorship. In this particular case, my friends sponsorship was going to cost a company roughly $10,000. Think about that for just a second, you have a young college graduate entering the workforce, already with a crippling amount of student loan debt, that is going to be forced to accept pay lower than what the job would normally pay anyone else. A regular US citizen could probably take another loan to cover the 10k being asked, but what bank do you think will lend money to someone with an expiring visa? What company is willingly going to shell out 10 grand for a fresh out of college grad, when they could find any other eager graduate without having to pay for them. Usually as a part of this exchange, said employer asks you to sign a contract or a non-compete that states that since they're doing you this solid favor, you'll work your shitty salary without receiving a raise for lets say 5 years (this is what my friend was asked to do) In this particular case, the company he got hired by is actually saving money long term by paying 10k upfront and locking him into 5 years of low pay. This happens a lot, especially in IT where it's common for companies to sponsor graduating immigrants with expiring visa's and locking them into low salary jobs (here in San Antonio USAA does this a lot at their main campus).

Now that story follows what happens when you legally pursue citizenship. Imagine that you're a 45 year old woman living in Mexico, the cartels control your city, your husband and oldest son have been murdered by these criminals. You fear that your younger children will suffer the same fate, so you leave your life behind and make a dangerous choice, stay and eventually be killed and watch your children also be killed, or put the lives of your family in a strangers hands to try to sneak across the border. If the small chance that you trusted the right person, i.e. they don't rape you and sell you into sex trafficking or leave you to die, pays off you're now in a foreign country. You don't speak the native language here, you have no friends or family to count on, and you desperately need money to survive. You could attempt to find an embassy and declare yourself a refugee from violence, but that's going to result in you being sent back, and if you do get sent back, the local authorities will know you tried to flee the city, the cops are bought and paid for by the very people you were running from, what do you think happens at the end of that scenario? So like most undocumented immigrants, you suck it up, and find a place that will pay you cash under the table. The job is probably cleaning shit off toilets, or picking crops in over 100 degree weather for 14 hours a day and if you're lucky you'll make $5 an hour. This employer is underpaying immigrants, and also not paying any benefits or contributing to social security, they are saving a ton of money if the workforce is 100 undocumented immigrants. Do you think for a second this cheap ass boss would shell out any money to help you get your visa or green card? Hell no, they would tell you to call the cops, but oh wait, you'd just get deported and like I said before that is not an option for you. With cost of living in today's world, how long do you think it takes to save up ten grand making $5 an hour? (Full disclaimer this is a true story of a woman who my family helped sponsor and is now a resident and has children who were protected by DACA)

In both of these scenarios, there is only one person benefiting from the system. It's the employer exploiting immigrants to get cheap labor without any consequences. The system will remain broken, and immigrants will continue to hide themselves as long as the cost associated with becoming a citizen is unreasonably high for people trying to be here legally. Let's be real, not everyone can be an engineer or a doctor to make the kind of money to afford this, or to find a company willing to eat the cost for you because your knowledge is worth it to them. There has been multiple efforts for the last 30 years to revise this system, and for 30 years legislators have continued to prove their utter incompetence at coming up with a solution that is humane and actually punishes those who would try to take someones despair as a means of profit. As long as the fear exists for these people, they will never report themselves, they will be continuously exploited, and companies will continue to profit from their inability to defend themselves from it. It's a vicious cycle with no end in sight and our brave leader just hot potatoed that shit onto the most incompetent congress that I've seen since I've been alive.

You stated that you simply cannot choose which laws to follow and which to ignore, but I beg to differ. Each of us possesses a moral compass and a brain, we have the ability to decide what laws are just, and which are unjust. It has long been the American way to fight for justice, and our founders exercised civil disobedience on multiple occasions to get us to where we are now. It's about time we put the heat on the lawmakers in Washington to actually do their job, I've been getting people all day to call congressmen and senators to express how they feel about immigration reform. If they just allow the DACA protections to fall off and try to deport almost 1 million people and their families due to their incompetence, I sincerely hope police and local ICE agents refuse to execute the order to remove them. San Antonio PD has already stated that if the word comes down they will not enforce immigration policy, regardless of federal mandate or state order. All this talk of job stealing is complete bullshit, no one wants to do most of the things Mexicans are doing in this country, especially at the wage they get paid to do those jobs. If your concern is with immigrants on I9 visa's taking positions from Americans, call your congressmen and tell them you're for immigration reform that punishes employers who try to profit off the vulnerability of those who have no choice but to accept a lower salary to stay in this country. If you worry about the safety of this country, tell them you support immigration reform that has no tolerance for violent criminals that should be deported and black listed from returning. If you are upset because these people haven't been contributing to social security or paying taxes, tell your congressmen you support reform that grants work visa's to every undocumented immigrant in this country that can prove they are gainfully employed and have been living in this country for years.

There are a lot of solutions to this problem, but let me clear, mass deportation is not one of them. It's high time that we as a society stop trying to claim moral superiority while we defend the rights of neo-nazi's, klansmen, and Wall Street executives who bankrupt our nation while shunning those who embody the real American spirit of hard work, entrepreneurship, and unity in their community. This isn't a partisan issue, it's an issue of basic human decency. These kids didn't choose to come here, they didn't choose to break the law, and they definitely couldn't stop their parents from breaking the law. They have spent their entire lives here, a lot of them don't even speak Spanish, how can you expect them to "go home" and not have their lives destroyed. America is their home, these are the finest examples of immigrants we have in this country, hard working and working towards higher education, exactly what this country needs more of, but because of a stupid broken law that hasn't been reformed to function in modern society you want to destroy over 1 million lives to defend some ridiculous notion that laws are above moral scrutiny. I'm ending my rant here, but if you want those kids to be here legally, write your worthless representatives and tell them to make it happen or you'll be voting them out next election.

Edit: spelling is hard.

You put a tremendous amount of thought into this post and spoke credibly from personal experience, so there is little I can offer to add.

I would like to address your example of the woman fleeing from the drug cartel. The world is an evil place and many wish to flee the violence of their circumstances. Most are unable to get to America because they don't share a border with us. The drug war is largely a tragedy of our own making, also compounded by human traffickers who now exploit this entire situation and prey on refugees and migrants. I've deployed to places where the people couldn't escape the violence, and the tragedies they suffered are no less depressing or sad than the story you shared.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Of course they can avoid making a decision, that's precisely what they've done for the last decade and a half, including a long time before DACA existed.

This is a dumb move because it's unlikely Congress can actually come to a deal on this, especially now that Trump has once again out-bargained himself by trying to give himself an out to 'revisit' it in six months if/when Congress fails. The only problem with that now is when he revisits it he's going to have to fight his own administration's words that DACA was illegal. So sure Congress should pass an immigration bill. I don't think it's likely to happen though and this deadline appears to have been made before giving any thought as to how it would play out. This was a very, very dumb play IMO.

They could, they would then have to explain to businesses why some workers will be deported, why some church members will be deported, why some school members will be deported, why some neighbors or renters will be deported and most importantly why some veterans and active service members will be deported
I'm not saying this will be kind it will be cruel and I don't support it.
I am a believer in pain makes people better. All our Congress people don't reside in Gerrymandered districts.

 

[Snarf Snarf]

While I might agree with many of you on other matters this is one where my opinion is firm. I would point out that I don't verbally attack people who disagree with me like so many others have chosen to do to me over illegal immigration.

For those persons hiding behind religion, church or the bible as a shield of justification on this matter I would point out that the Lord himself stated to obey the laws of man which many clearly are not doing by harboring illegals. So much for your faith.

I fully support legal immigration as a process that has produced some of our best and most productive citizens. I'm reminded of one Senator Robert F Wagner, a German immigrant, who did many great things for the working people in our country. You can thank him for the worker protections you all have right now. I'm sorry that some people have difficult lives in their home countries but that doesn't justify breaking our laws.

The deferred part of this action is over and its time to begin acting. I do feel that congress should take steps to reduce the cost of applying for citizenship but should in no way reward those who've broken our laws to come here.

The laws of man are fallible and are subject to corruption just like the hearts of man. I would gladly break any law if the end result was saving the life of an innocent person. It's important to remember regardless of political affiliation the relationship of representative and constituent remains the same. We elect them to legislate, part of their job is to fix unjust laws, they work for us. I respect that you hold the law so highly, but laws are not absolute. If no one challenged law makers to make hard decisions through civil disobedience the civil rights movement would have never happened, schools would still be segregated and POC would be even more disenfranchised than they already are.

We as the people have a power that far out weighs that of law makers, the mandate of the people is absolute. They are likely to stall this out and bounce it back and forth between The Senate and HOR, this bill will not get done in 6 months. Like I said earlier, if your desire is to help these people, but to do it within the letter of the law please write your representative and tell them to give these kids a path to citizenship that is clearly laid out and legal. There isn't a concrete path laid for citizenship that doesn't involve hiring a lawyer and paying thousands more than these families can afford, it's time for that to change.

 

[fskimospy]

They could, they would then have to explain to businesses why some workers will be deported, why some church members will be deported, why some school members will be deported, why some neighbors or renters will be deported and most importantly why some veterans and active service members will be deported
I'm not saying this will be kind it will be cruel and I don't support it.
I am a believer in pain makes people better. All our Congress people don't reside in Gerrymandered districts.

Regardless of the public policy and moral attributes of this (it's morally monstrous and public policy stupidity) what's the process for this getting through Congress?

I see a number of hurdles:

1) When will they find time to do this? The fall legislative calendar is already super packed and this sort of bill doesn't write itself quickly. No way Republicans pick this over tax cuts.
2) Republicans will need to get the ultra right people in the 'Freedom Caucus' on board unless they plan on passing it with a mix of Democratic and Republican votes. Passing an immigration bill that lets illegal immigrants stay over the objections of conservatives seems like primary election suicide to me. Hard to see this happening.

I feel like maybe they could pass some tiny band-aid bill that would kick the can down the road a bit but overall this seems unlikely to pass.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Regardless of the public policy and moral attributes of this (it's morally monstrous and public policy stupidity) what's the process for this getting through Congress?

I see a number of hurdles:

1) When will they find time to do this? The fall legislative calendar is already super packed and this sort of bill doesn't write itself quickly. No way Republicans pick this over tax cuts.
2) Republicans will need to get the ultra right people in the 'Freedom Caucus' on board unless they plan on passing it with a mix of Democratic and Republican votes. Passing an immigration bill that lets illegal immigrants stay over the objections of conservatives seems like primary election suicide to me. Hard to see this happening.

I feel like maybe they could pass some tiny band-aid bill that would kick the can down the road a bit but overall this seems unlikely to pass.

That's part of the point they'll either have to stay longer & more sessions and/or delay vacation time. What a bummer, hasn't Congress met historically low amount of time recently?
Part 2: Yes I agree it's primary suicide for the guys who have humped this forever. That's the price of playing with fire. They'll either reach out to Dems to gain consensus or kick the can to me this is how it's supposed to work.

 

[Snarf Snarf]

You put a tremendous amount of thought into this post and spoke credibly from personal experience, so there is little I can offer to add.

I would like to address your example of the woman fleeing from the drug cartel. The world is an evil place and many wish to flee the violence of their circumstances. Most are unable to get to America because they don't share a border with us. The drug war is largely a tragedy of our own making, also compounded by human traffickers who now exploit this entire situation and prey on refugees and migrants. I've deployed to places where the people couldn't escape the violence, and the tragedies they suffered are no less depressing or sad than the story you shared.

Thanks, it's an issue that has a lot of meaning to me because of where my family came from, and where my family still lives. The horrors going on south of the border are just as bad as the worst places on the planet, and they don't make the headlines anymore because it's not a sensation anymore. Last year a cousin on my dad's side of the family was murdered and they dragged his body from the back of a car and left it in front of his parents house. The reason for this? His father who is an errand boy for the local narco skimmed a couple hundred dollars off some payments he collected, the punishment was his sons life. That's everyday life for people there, they don't come after you, they come after your loved ones in order to break you psychologically. People just vanish one day down there, everyone knows what happened to them, they probably said no, maybe they refused to pull the trigger for them, or wouldn't let the narcos use their home or business as a place to sell drugs.

I can say with 100% certainty that I would flee the country just like they do. I would clean shit for 12 hours a day for $3 an hour if it meant my children weren't going to get butchered in public. The immigration is symptomatic of something that is far more sinister and far more reaching than Americans care to acknowledge. There is a trillion dollar illegal drug industry fueling this mass diaspora of people, and guess who the #1 customers of this market are? It's us. The war on drugs has failed the American people, and the knock on effects are destroying our southern neighbors. Federal declassification of marijuana would go a long way in curbing the profit of the cartels, crippling their ability to control all levels of government, and taking away the resources they use to smuggle drugs into the US. Changing the way doctors prescribe opioids is also a top priority as most opium addicts start their addiction with prescription drugs, something like 75% of heroin addicts became addicted after getting medicine legally.

Building a wall, or deporting millions of people will effectively do nothing to stop the root cause of any of these issues. We'll just end up with another 11 million undocumented immigrants in 10 years. Americans need to get introspective and realize that we are the makers of this problem, public policy has failed and needs to be revised. You want the Mexicans to stay in Mexico?(this is in general not aimed at you starbuck, I just quoted you) Tell your reps to end the war on drugs and to start looking at the way other countries have handled addiction and classification of hard drugs. When the cartels lose their market and influence and it's safe to go home they will go back home

 

[K1052]

Stabilizing Mexico through ending the drug war is a vastly under appreciated strategy that would almost certainly pay a lot more dividends than the plans we have going now.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Tell your reps to end the war on drugs and to start looking at the way other countries have handled addiction and classification of hard drugs.

This part is so, so hard. We've got two-four generations of people indoctrinated with the war on drugs, and honestly I don't know that it'll change before the Baby Boomers and Gen X'ers retire/die (speaking as a younger Gen X'er myself). The idea of accepting drugs as something to be routed around rather than walled up is antithetical to huge numbers of politicians, and constituents. Remember the hubub regarding Clinton talking about not inhaling? How on earth do you converge mindsets between those that flipped out over smoking MJ and the complete legalization of everything drug-related?

 

[Lucio G.]

To deport children and infants who out of no fault of their own is here is just despicable and cruel. We all have kids. It's not what this country stands for.

Sending them back to a country they are unfamiliar with is just inhuman. To derive joy in a child's suffering is beyond words.

Spare the children, have mercy. Don't let hate drag children into this.

 

[Roflmouth]

To deport children and infants who out of no fault of their own is here is just despicable and cruel. We all have kids. It's not what this country stands for.

The "Dreamers" are all adults, liar. Better luck next time.

 

[nakedfrog]

Stabilizing Mexico through ending the drug war is a vastly under appreciated strategy that would almost certainly pay a lot more dividends than the plans we have going now.

But good people don't smoke marijuana. Our diminutive overlord of justice said so.

 

[K1052]

But good people don't smoke marijuana. Our diminutive overlord of justice said so.

If only I possessed a time machine and could transport him back to the place he'd be happiest: the antebellum south.

 

[Snarf Snarf]

The "Dreamers" are all adults, liar. Better luck next time.

They came as children... you know this and so does everyone else here, don't be intentionally obtuse.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Snarf Snarf Thank you for your posts .... They are magnificent and honestly, are better written than most newspaper articles.

 

[Roflmouth]

They came as children... you know this and so does everyone else here, don't be intentionally obtuse.

But they're adults now, so no "infants and children" will be deported under this particular scheme, but you knew that.

 

[Jhhnn]

The "Dreamers" are all adults, liar. Better luck next time.

Many of whom have American citizen children of their own who will functionally be deported with their parents & grandparents, too.

Make America White Again is a cruel & Quixotic quest that pleases only the delusional racist pendejos among us.

 

[HomerJS]

Steve King: Dreamers Can ‘Live in the Shadows’ After DACA Ends

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/im...mers-can-live-shadows-after-daca-ends-n799221

This is the same guy who thinks only white people made the significant contributions to our society.

 

[Roflmouth]

Many of whom have American citizen children of their own who will functionally be deported with their parents & grandparents, too.

Good. Nobody told them to continue violating immigration law once they turned eighteen and were responsible for their own actions.

 

[Jhhnn]

Snarf Snarf Thank you for your posts .... They are magnificent and honestly, are better written than most newspaper articles.

Agreed. Thank You Snarf Snarf.

 

[HomerJS]

Good. Nobody told them to continue violating immigration law once they turned eighteen and were responsible for their own actions.

I sure the people saved in Houston by the DACA recipient might just disagree with you.

 

[Jhhnn]

Good. Nobody told them to continue violating immigration law once they turned eighteen and were responsible for their own actions.

Yeh, fuck them brown bastids. Let's make America White Again!

 

[Puffnstuff]

World's meanest Keebler elf about to get his deepest desire:

He's smiling because he just missed Gargamel and Azrael who were in the neighborhood hunting Smurfs.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Let's make America White Again!

Speaking in pure Clorox make my undershorts white again.

 

[Roflmouth]

Yeh, fuck them brown bastids. Let's make America White Again!

Please keep your racial animus to yourself.

 

[zinfamous]

They came as children... you know this and so does everyone else here, don't be intentionally obtuse.

your posts are too well-considered to be distracted by roflmouth, a member who, instead of a head, has a penis growing out of his neckhole.