Trump wins Iowa - is anyone surprised?

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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
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Aren't all Republics Democracies? Its like the square/rectangle thing right?

All republics are democracies but not all democracies are republics. The defining feature of a republic are representatives that are democratically elected to govern (as opposed to say a direct democracy where citizens are the representatives).


I don't really know. Was thinking that it can't be that Republics are necessarily democratic, or it would be redundant to call your country "the Democratic Republic of...". Though, then again, seems as if the countries that call themselves that tend to be neither very democratic nor republics (North Korea?) so maybe it's one of those "doth protest too much" scenarios (like "The Freedom Caucus")
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,318
2,344
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Aren't all Republics Democracies? Its like the square/rectangle thing right?

All republics are democracies but not all democracies are republics. The defining feature of a republic are representatives that are democratically elected to govern (as opposed to say a direct democracy where citizens are the representatives).
Not all republics are democracies. The Senators of the Roman Republic, for example, were not elected by the masses.

 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,264
8,192
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Not all republics are democracies. The Senators of the Roman Republic, for example, were not elected by the masses.



Surely it's a matter of degree? The Roman Republic was _a bit_ democratic, insofar as the Senators decided things by vote?
Just as countries that only allowed property-owning males to vote were partially, but imperfectly, democratic.

Otherwise, what was it that was overthrown or lost when it ceased to be a Republic?
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,937
8,668
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I'm amazed that democrats seem so chilled and certain that Trump won't win a GE. Those Biden/Trump polls are ridiculously close!
Context: There's a GE in the UK this year and Labour are 20 points above the Tories (and that's been a stable 20 points for a year or so) and I'm still anxious that the Tories will still get in! And the UK system is probably a bit more robust against regional shenanigans in an election that the US one.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,683
49,272
136
I'm amazed that democrats seem so chilled and certain that Trump won't win a GE. Those Biden/Trump polls are ridiculously close!
Context: There's a GE in the UK this year and Labour are 20 points above the Tories (and that's been a stable 20 points for a year or so) and I'm still anxious that the Tories will still get in! And the UK system is probably a bit more robust against regional shenanigans in an election that the US one.
I haven’t seen any democrat say this. Who are you referring to?
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,937
8,668
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I haven’t seen any democrat say this. Who are you referring to?
I'm not going to trawl the past posts but I remember you being fairly sanguine about Trumps chances! Maybe I've misread the room but I definitely got the impression that you thought Trump didn't stand a chance.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,683
49,272
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I'm not going to trawl the past posts but I remember you being fairly sanguine about Trumps chances! Maybe I've misread the room but I definitely got the impression that you thought Trump didn't stand a chance.
No, I’ve repeatedly said that while Trump’s chances are not good that the lesson of 2016 is that any major party nominee has at least a puncher’s chance at winning.

He’s not particularly likely to win in my opinion but he absolutely has a chance if he’s the nominee.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,937
8,668
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No, I’ve repeatedly said that while Trump’s chances are not good that the lesson of 2016 is that any major party nominee has at least a puncher’s chance at winning.

He’s not particularly likely to win in my opinion but he absolutely has a chance if he’s the nominee.
The polls are pretty much a wash between the two of them and that's before the Trump hose of bullshit has been fully opened!
I absolutely hope he doesn't win but he doesn't look like an outsider to win at all at the moment. Bidens approval ratings are (inexplicably) awful, the right are absolutely leaning into the "we are the underdogs that are being repressed" narrative, and the not mental branch of the republican voter base also seems to be happier to line up behind whichever republican candidate wins (even if it's Trump) rather than voting for a Democrat.
If I was an American Democrat (or any American that cares about democracy and their country) I'd be sweating bullets!
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,683
49,272
136
The polls are pretty much a wash between the two of them and that's before the Trump hose of bullshit has been fully opened!
I absolutely hope he doesn't win but he doesn't look like an outsider to win at all at the moment. Bidens approval ratings are (inexplicably) awful, the right are absolutely leaning into the "we are the underdogs that are being repressed" narrative, and the not mental branch of the republican voter base also seems to be happier to line up behind whichever republican candidate wins (even if it's Trump) rather than voting for a Democrat.
If I was an American Democrat (or any American that cares about democracy and their country) I'd be sweating bullets!
Polls at this time are not very informative. I wouldn’t sweat it too much.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,569
29,245
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Haley is a woman of color, and the #2 candidate in the Jews Will Not Replace Us party.... So.. Are you saying the Ds are more racist than Rs?

Harris is unpopular because she's an inconsistent goofball senator from California who's been promoted one level above her competency.
Competence? The VP has one job: to be a worse alternative to the President to deter assassination attempts. Trump had a hard time finding one. Pence was the best he could do since Kanye was already running for President, and he would have had to offer Elon a trillion dollars to even think about it.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,050
7,474
136
Not all republics are democracies. The Senators of the Roman Republic, for example, were not elected by the masses.


-They issue there is that there is an assumption that ancient and modern republics are even the same form of government.

Ancient republics looked a lot more like oligarchies than modern republics do.

We draw a byline through history because they all share a sort of common name, but they're really radically different forms of government.
 
Reactions: Roger Wilco

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,325
4,587
136
The polls are pretty much a wash between the two of them and that's before the Trump hose of bullshit has been fully opened!
I absolutely hope he doesn't win but he doesn't look like an outsider to win at all at the moment. Bidens approval ratings are (inexplicably) awful, the right are absolutely leaning into the "we are the underdogs that are being repressed" narrative, and the not mental branch of the republican voter base also seems to be happier to line up behind whichever republican candidate wins (even if it's Trump) rather than voting for a Democrat.
If I was an American Democrat (or any American that cares about democracy and their country) I'd be sweating bullets!
Yeah approval ratings suck because the other side is in single digits. Partisan politics, the other side is generally at least 20+% approval. Even for the orange monkey, don’t think it was less than 15% by Dems.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,465
27,737
136
Not all republics are democracies. The Senators of the Roman Republic, for example, were not elected by the masses.

This is why all right thinking people should be rooting for the Empire in the Star Wars movies. The Emperor replaced a un-elected hereditary aristocracy (propped up by a whack-job mystic warrior cult) with a meritocracy. The Emperor didn't promote his brats; he went out and sought talent.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,318
2,344
136
-They issue there is that there is an assumption that ancient and modern republics are even the same form of government.

Ancient republics looked a lot more like oligarchies than modern republics do.

We draw a byline through history because they all share a sort of common name, but they're really radically different forms of government.
I used Rome just as a convenient example. The Wiki page explains it for @pmv. Nominally the USSR was a union of republics, although that wasn't really their system of government. There are other modern examples today.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,569
12,680
146
This is why all right thinking people should be rooting for the Empire in the Star Wars movies. The Emperor replaced a un-elected hereditary aristocracy (propped up by a whack-job mystic warrior cult) with a meritocracy. The Emperor didn't promote his brats; he went out and sought talent.
As an added bonus, the emperor kept his christofascism on the down low. He had the power to go ape shit but nobody saw it from him, and only from his second if he needed to bring the heat somewhere.

Pity the ruler that needs to flaunt his power.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
I think Stefanik will be his choice, she’s been a staunch defender and has ties with big Wall Street money.
 
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