trumps new muslim ban absolutely is 100% ILLEGAL

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norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
Im not sorry for coming up with some personal embellishment of literary bullshit. I know how much you all love your alternative facts. And yes I do realize how you all are crying over your sensitivity to people not holding your hands, especially the press, but you can just run along to your safe spaces.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,570
7,631
136
Im not sorry for coming up with some personal embellishment of literary bullshit. I know how much you all love your alternative facts. And yes I do realize how you all are crying over your sensitivity to people not holding your hands, especially the press, but you can just run along to your safe spaces.

You never explained yourself. At all.
What, specifically, it in the code that you cited makes you believe Trump's action against immigration is illegal?
 

qliveur

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2007
4,089
70
91
Im not sorry for coming up with some personal embellishment of literary bullshit. I know how much you all love your alternative facts. And yes I do realize how you all are crying over your sensitivity to people not holding your hands, especially the press, but you can just run along to your safe spaces.
OMG, the projection.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
You never explained yourself. At all.

What, specifically, it in the code that you cited makes you believe Trump's action against immigration is illegal?

Except as specifically provided in paragraph (2) and in sections 1101(a)(27), 1151(b)(2)(A)(i), and 1153 of this title, no person shall receive any preference or priority or be discriminated against in the issuance of an immigrant visa because of the person’s race, sex, nationality, place of birth, or place of residence.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,570
7,631
136

That says no person... what about blocking a whole country?
I'd argue there's no discrimination against persons or individuals but against whole nations.

Surely there's legal precedent for when such blocks were previously established before. Though I'm not aware of their legal defense.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,570
7,631
136
That says no person... what about blocking a whole country?
I'd argue there's no discrimination against persons or individuals but against whole nations.

Surely there's legal precedent for when such blocks were previously established before. Though I'm not aware of their legal defense.

8 U.S. Code § 1182 - Inadmissible aliens

(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. Whenever the Attorney General finds that a commercial airline has failed to comply with regulations of the Attorney General relating to requirements of airlines for the detection of fraudulent documents used by passengers traveling to the United States (including the training of personnel in such detection), the Attorney General may suspend the entry of some or all aliens transported to the United States by such airline.​
 
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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
That says no person... what about blocking a whole country?
I'd argue there's no discrimination against persons or individuals but against whole nations.

Surely there's legal precedent for when such blocks were previously established before. Though I'm not aware of their legal defense.

That will be the contention of Trump, that it is not Muslims but nations supporting terrorism. Where that leads to trouble for Trump is that in judicial review the government may be required to show there is a need which exceeds the burden and as none of the nations haven't sent terrorists to the US that may be problematic.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,324
15,123
136

Let me help you out.

The part that has the potential to make this EO unconstitutional is the paragraph below, specifically the bolded.

b) Upon the resumption of USRAP admissions, the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minorityreligion in the individual’s country of nationality. Where necessary and appropriate, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall recommend legislation to the President that would assist with such prioritization.


What that paragraph says is that exceptions will be made for religious persecutions, nothing wrong with that, except, it goes one step further and specifies that the persecuted religions must be a minority religion of that country. Since the countries listed are predominantly Muslim, the EO does in fact ban Muslims since their religious persecution won't be an exception like other religions would be.

That is a clear violation of the constitution and existing immigration laws.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,535
13,109
136
...
What that paragraph says is that exceptions will be made for religious persecutions, nothing wrong with that, except, it goes one step further and specifies that the persecuted religions must be a minority religion of that country. Since the countries listed are predominantly Muslim, the EO does in fact ban Muslims since their religious persecution won't be an exception like other religions would be.

That is a clear violation of the constitution and existing immigration laws.

But this has been vetted! Surely his staff is not incompetent to a degree as to let him sign something illegal?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,324
15,123
136
But this has been vetted! Surely his staff is not incompetent to a degree as to let him sign something illegal?

Yeah, that's the really disturbing thing about this. Reports are saying none of the agencies who would be involved in such actions were even aware or asked for input.

This guy really does believe that he and he alone can fix this countries problems and I think he means it literally.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Let me help you out.

The part that has the potential to make this EO unconstitutional is the paragraph below, specifically the bolded.




What that paragraph says is that exceptions will be made for religious persecutions, nothing wrong with that, except, it goes one step further and specifies that the persecuted religions must be a minority religion of that country. Since the countries listed are predominantly Muslim, the EO does in fact ban Muslims since their religious persecution won't be an exception like other religions would be.

That is a clear violation of the constitution and existing immigration laws.

Trump can say it isn't about religion and in itself that might be difficult to disprove, however it seems he's suggesting a different standard for Christians who are victims in Muslim countries creating a double standard.

Hey, I'm trying
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,570
7,631
136
Let me help you out.

The part that has the potential to make this EO unconstitutional is the paragraph below, specifically the bolded.

What that paragraph says is that exceptions will be made for religious persecutions, nothing wrong with that, except, it goes one step further and specifies that the persecuted religions must be a minority religion of that country. Since the countries listed are predominantly Muslim, the EO does in fact ban Muslims since their religious persecution won't be an exception like other religions would be.

That is a clear violation of the constitution and existing immigration laws.

You just argued that majorities need protection from persecution? Does not compute...
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,324
15,123
136
You just argued that majorities need protection from persecution? Does not compute...

Lol did you just inadvertently try and say all Muslims are the same and practice their religion the same? I think you did. Oops!
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
norseamd has been turning out to be a real sad sorry soulless husk now hasnt he?

Considering seeing you turn from some enigmatic anti-authority preacher to some frothing Trump fascist fanatic, I dont know whether or be laughing or laughing at you talking about real sad sorry soulless husks.
 

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
Are people calling this a muslim ban for the sake of hyperbole? Are thread titles allowed to be wrong in an inflammatory way now? How can anyone expect to converse if every sentence is designed to piss off the 'other side'?
yes.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,570
7,631
136
Lol did you just inadvertently try and say all Muslims are the same and practice their religion the same? I think you did. Oops!

If you want to make that argument then I suppose you could win extra recognition for different sects.
Which case it'd be a very interesting day to follow, to see what Trump would do to comply with a court order.
Be it accept more groups under that exception... or to deny all.
 

greatnoob

Senior member
Jan 6, 2014
968
395
136
If you want to make that argument then I suppose you could win extra recognition for different sects.
Which case it'd be a very interesting day to follow, to see what Trump would do to comply with a court order.
Be it accept more groups under that exception... or to deny all.

Sects not included. It's only minority religions in the predominately Muslim countries on the ban list that are given exceptions, not sects. It's obvious why.
 

shady28

Platinum Member
Apr 11, 2004
2,520
397
126
Considering seeing you turn from some enigmatic anti-authority preacher to some frothing Trump fascist fanatic, I dont know whether or be laughing or laughing at you talking about real sad sorry soulless husks.

Anti-authority preacher? A little delusional there aren't you?

But yes, watching lefty's ignore executive overreach for years - thus setting a mountain of precedent for future (aka, present) POTUS while simultaneously diminishing the power of minority political dissent in congress, only to have it turn around and rip them a new one repeatedly, why yes that is quite satisfying if you must know.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,324
15,123
136
Anti-authority preacher? A little delusional there aren't you?

But yes, watching lefty's ignore executive overreach for years - thus setting a mountain of precedent for future (aka, present) POTUS while simultaneously diminishing the power of minority political dissent in congress, only to have it turn around and rip them a new one repeatedly, why yes that is quite satisfying if you must know.

Quite the principled person you are! Lol
 
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