That delusion you and others like you are under is the reason Sanders and Trump have gone as far as they have when they wouldn't have made it out of the election starting gate 20 years ago,
people aren't voting for Trump and Sanders because of the status quo That's worked pretty well for the last eight years, but because they are tired of the bullshit empty promises that vaporize soon after the election so they can do the bidding of big business and corporations to the detriment of middle class America,
but one needs to come down from their ideological elitist ivory tower to understand what the "low information little people" are complaining about.
I don't understand how anyone thinks Hillary can win. Sure, she has delegates, but not the popular vote.
Anyone can see, the popular vote is for Trump and Sanders. No one trusts Hillary or Cruz.
I don't understand how anyone thinks Hillary can win. Sure, she has delegates, but not the popular vote.
Anyone can see, the popular vote is for Trump and Sanders. No one trusts Hillary or Cruz.
Remember PUMAs? No? Exactly. If Bernie supporters don't support Hillary instead of Trump they are shooting themselves in the foot. You want a massive tax cut for rich people that will make inequality even worse? Trump's your man. You want SCOTUS justices that will roll back regulation and perhaps overturn Roe v. Wade? Trump's your man. Want to repeal the ACA and go back to the old system? Trump's your man.
I also think the idea that Sanders would be a stronger general election candidate is deeply misguided. Sanders has never been attacked in any meaningful way by Republicans for a very good reason, they think the stronger he is the more he hurts their actual opponent. Can you imagine what would happen to Sanders's image when they start rolling out things like the fact he couldn't shut up about how wonderful Castro was, how he went out of his way to praise the brutal Sandinistas? He is just way, way too easy to burn to the ground.
Its true that Sanders does better than Clinton in hypothetical matchups against the Republicans. Currently, Sanders outperforms Clinton by more than seven percentage points against Trump, and by nearly nine points against Ted Cruz. But thats not because Sanders is the stronger nominee. Its because Republicans havent yet trashed him the way theyve trashed Clinton. Once they do, his advantage over her would disappear...
...The problem with current polls that test Sanders against Trump or Cruz is that they dont capture the effects of the fall campaign. As Harry Enten points out in FiveThirtyEight, early general-election polls in previous cycles were predictively worthless. Early in the 2000 election, for instance, George W. Bush led Al Gore by 12 percentage points. Bush, then the Texas governor, burst onto the national scene with relatively little negative media scrutiny, Enten observes. Between December 1999 and November 2000, as the scrutiny intensified, Bushs net favorability fell 27 percentage points. He ended up losing the popular vote.
The best way to account for this kind of damage is to conduct a campaign within a poll. That sounds perverse, but campaign pollsters, unlike media pollsters, do it all the time. Its called message testing. Heres how it works: Youre running against another candidate. There are a lot of bad things you could say about him. You want to pick the message that will hurt him most and hurt you least. So you call up a bunch of people and ask them how theyre planning to vote. Then you try out the various messages youre considering. After each message, you ask the person on the phone to what degree this statement makes her less likely to support your opponent. When youre done, you ask her once more how shes planning to vote, given the information youve provided. Congratulations: Youve just conducted a campaign in a poll. Youve ascertained how the election might turn out, depending on how you go after your opponent.
Thats what a pro-Clinton phone bank did to Sanders two months ago. Thanks to a voter who recorded the call and passed it to ABC News, you can listen to the whole spiel. First the caller asks the voter which candidate hes planning to support. Then she reads talking points from each candidate and asks the question again. Then she tries out some pro-Clinton and anti-Sanders messages. Next, youre going to hear some statements that someone could make about Bernie Sanders, she says. After each one, please tell me how much it concerns you. One statement is: Bernie Sanders is making big campaign promises that will cost up to $20 trillion. The New York Times said his plans are not realistic. Other independent experts said his plans are unworkable and dead on arrival in Congress. Another statement is: Bernie Sanders plan is to replace Obamacare and put all Americans into a whole new health care system. His plan would force 70 percent of Americans to pay more for health care through higher taxes. Sanders himself said he will raise taxes.
Thats what a general-election campaign against Sanders would look likeexcept it would be much, much worse. Republicans would rip Sanders as a big-spending, big-taxing socialist. They have plenty of ammo. They could quote the 2015 letter in which Sanders urged President Obama to raise revenue through executive action. They could dig up quotes from decades ago, in which Sanders called himself clearly anti-capitalistic, complained that U.S. interventions in Latin America have been for the benefit of large corporations, and praised communist countries as culturally superior. Contrast what the young people in China and Cuba are doing for themselves and for their country as compared to the young people in America, Sanders argued in 1976.
Republicans could hammer the back-seat foreign policy Sanders conducted as a mayor in Vermont: going to Cuba to seek a meeting with Fidel Castro, visiting Lenins tomb in the Soviet Union, and traveling to Nicaragua, where he met with Sandinista leader Daniel Ortega and praised the countrys cultural minister as a hippie whose government was teaching poetry not only to peasants and to workers but in the military. They could go after Sanders countercultural mockery of respectful clerks, technicians and soldiers. They could rehash his attacks on compulsory schooling, dairy laws, and fluoridation, or his Freudian analysis of napalm use in Vietnam, or his advocacy of public toddler nudity and genital touching as cures for porn, or the sexual quackery through which he attributed breast cancer and cervical cancer to orgasm deficiency and capitalist conformity.
Then why does Hillary have more votes in the primaries then either one of them?
It's called voter fraud.
Slate had a similar take on Bernie. He shows as potentially more electable than Hillary but once the republicans hammer on all his previous "socialist" policies he'll drop like a rock.
Hillary on the other hand has been beaten on for last 25 years. Unless they bring kryptonite there's nothing left to hit her with that's isn't already a widely known quantity.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/04/polls_say_bernie_is_more_electable_than_hillary_don_t_believe_them.html
That's why Repubs have been concern trolling for Bernie. It's obvious that some of the most strident Bernie bros are just that, a fifth column in the ranks of Democrats. They spend a lot more time tearing down Hillary than building up Bernie, repeating right wing propaganda verbatim.
Bernie? By the time the right wing slime machine got done with him even Cruz might win. Why do you think they've been so quiet about him? Because they'd much prefer him as an opponent rather than Clinton.
Polls say Bernie does better against Trump than Hillary. Bernie is far more trustworthy. While I don't agree with his ideology, his character is far more honorable than Hillary's. That's why you don't really see me bashing him. Also, his supporters are not all going to back her. While it might be a small percentage that hop on the Trump wagon, it's still going to be quite a number of votes. I think these extra votes are what the polls don't take into consideration, when it comes to Trump beating Hillary.
When I point out that there's a lot of concern trolling for Bernie, you immediately... concern troll for Bernie with the usual "can't trust Hillary" routine.
I do not think you have earned much trust around here, compuwiz1. People do take notice.
Right....because opinions and views that differ from your own make a person untrustworthy. Gotcha.
Heatware says different.
I mean, I have seen you jump at every opportunity to attack Democrats reflexively and unconditionally. By reflexively I mean without your own opinion formed by your own thinking. You appear to simply go after whoever your "establishment" tells you to go after.
Jhhnn has been repeating that fifth column fable for months now, but you know when all the young kids like an ancient white guy over Hillary, she's obviously got a serious problem.
The reason I'm quiet about Bernie is because he is a likable guy, seems an honorable fellow. Wrong on the whole socialism thing, but that's been beaten to death so many times it's rather pointless. Hillary is a different story. She's about the opposite of Bernie in integrity, authenticity, honor, things which Bernie reveals painfully by contrast just by being on the same stage as her.
I think I mostly agree with you, in fact I find myself wondering if I would actually vote for Bernie if he became the nominee. His preferred method of governance is largely anathema to my libertarian tendencies, but this is a case where we would be voting for the man and not the party or agenda. I would fully expect him to be an honest broker, even while I would rail against his proposals.Bernie's agenda would basically be irrelevant because he would never be able to get it done. The establishment would never allow it. He would still have my vote however, for the simple reason that he's the only one on the entire field that would not go to Washington solely to labor for the elite. Trump is no different in this regard. He may not be beholden to donors, but as one who has made a business off of foreign workers and foreign made goods it's plain as day he has as much interest in continuing to facilitate the mass pillaging of the nation's wealth as surely as the next guy. A lot of people give Bernie flack because a vote for him would be a vote for standing still. But they don't realize that every other option is to go backwards. The option to go forwards never materialized.
P.S. I think we are talking about different kind trustworthiness here. Would you credit Clinton's trustworthiness if she had a perfect Heatware score of, say, 20?
But then again you think The Duck is a trustworthy person, right? A person you would trust with your savings account? XD
I'm a Bernie supporter. If you think Hillary is anywhere near as bad as Cruz or Trump you are sick in the head. Get your shit together. 99% of the things you think are bad about Hillary are GOP fabrications.I think the Dems stand a good chance at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory now.
They nominate Hillary, Drumpf has a shot at the White House. If they think Bernie supporters are just going to obediently vote for Hillary when they see her as a supporter of a corrupted system, man are they in for a rude awakening. Dems who aren't drinking the Klinton KoolAid and independants know the system is broken, and see it being controlled by powerful interests - Sanders bowing out doesn't just magically make all that go away, nor does it change anyone's views on establishment corruption.
How fucking stupid do you think Dems will feel if on Nov. 9th they lose to Drumpf, because they put Hillary's quest for glory ahead of party ideals?
Hey FBI, get off your ass and do your job. Let the cards fall where they may.
It's called voter fraud.
I'm a Bernie supporter. If you think Hillary is anywhere near as bad as Cruz or Trump you are sick in the head. Get your shit together. 99% of the things you think are bad about Hillary are GOP fabrications.