Try to enforce regulations on OIL.. they threaten to raise prices and lay people off.

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charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Maybe you havent been keeping up with current events but we just got our asses kicked.


Maybe you still dont understand what I am saying.

and let me know when you think it will be possible for regulation to stop 100% of all accidents that might occur? So far it has not been determined what caused this current mess. Lets find out what caused this and fix it. I really have no problem with that.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
There really shouldn't be any regulations on companies, other than making them pay for the damages they cause and if they somehow get too big for their britches then let them fail. New ones will start up. Regulations aren't going to stop this shit from happening in the future. There were already plenty of regulations in place. Nothing works better than making them pay dollar-for-dollar for the damage they did. That alone is enough to keep them in check.
 

Sclamoz

Guest
Sep 9, 2009
975
0
0
High business taxes do nothing but hurt the consumer AND the workers.

Why? Because busniesses merely pass these taxes on to the consumer with higher prices. AND, higher prices makes companies less profitable on the world market, which then makes countries with lower taxes have an edge.

Busniess taxes do NOTHING but hurt consumers and the ability of companies to compete, thus putting people out of work.

According to the most recent study by the Congressional Budget Office, released in 2005, capital investments like oil field leases and drilling equipment are taxed at an effective rate of 9 percent, significantly lower than the overall rate of 25 percent for businesses in general and lower than virtually any other industry.

And for many small and midsize oil companies, the tax on capital investments is so low that it is more than eliminated by various credits. These companies’ returns on those investments are often higher after taxes than before.

Where are you getting this high taxes thing from?
 

AnnonUSA

Senior member
Nov 18, 2007
468
0
0
Gotta love anyone that thinks they can live oil free. By the time you get out of bed and brush your teeth, you have used lots of products made with oil, manufactured with power from oil, or delivered to the store you bought it from using oil.

I want to see anyone try to be Oil free.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,272
103
106
Gotta love anyone that thinks they can live oil free. By the time you get out of bed and brush your teeth, you have used lots of products made with oil, manufactured with power from oil, or delivered to the store you bought it from using oil.

I want to see anyone try to be Oil free.

Yep. Those who whine about the oil companies, stop being a hypocrite and go oil free. No plastics, no rubber, no materials processed with oil, no gasoline, and no energy derived from oil. Good luck living in a log cabin in Montana.

That doesn't mean oil companies should be off the hook for the damage they cost or for when they break regulations, but demonizing the oil industry just because they are large companies is retarded. Safety and environmental regs are good and needed, but they have to be balanced with the impact the the economy of rising oil prices.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,803
10,342
136
I am sorry that 6 billion in profit is not enough.. IN just three months

oil is high risk/high reward. it costs about 2 billion for each well, IIRC. so if you build a well and it turns out there's almost nothing there despite your initial surveys... you are screwed.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Grow a spine for crying out loud.

Geez this forum just gets dumber and dumber by the day...

Oil companies make money because ... *gasp* ... they provide a product that we want to buy and use.

Wow, the idiocy.

No one said oil companies don't sell a product people want or that they shouldn't make a profit.

Your post shows you don't have a clue about the issue of when mega industries get so powerful as to be able to do bad things to the public and are too powerful for even government to stand up for the people against at times. History has many cases of when this has happened; it's not a coincidence that the financial reform had such a hard time getting through this time and is very limited.

Your response is so ridiculous, it's like someone warning of Al Queda and your answering calling them names for trying to deny the right to own a gun to Al Queda members.

I defend your right to vote, but it's terrifying that you can use it.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,330
1,203
126
BP is a VERY LARGE company owned by MILLIONS of people.

they have a 7.6% profit margin.

http://finapps.forbes.com/finapps/jsp/finance/compinfo/CIAtAGlance.jsp?tkr=BP

That's a pretty LOW profit margin by any scale.

By comparison, brewers (beer makers) have an average of 14.2% profit margin and restaurants have an average of about 9%.

http://biz.yahoo.com/p/sum_conamed.html

In other words, your outrage is just plain stupid knee-jerk ignorance.

It is a fact that over regulation costs money and will drive up prices. You do not make a company spend more in overhead without having to pay more as a consumer. Period. It is the same with business taxes. They are passed directly onto the consumer.

What's your point? Good luck trying to only consume products or services not requiring oil. Try the same with beer or a restaurants.
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
11,345
2,705
136
Would you rather B.P. not have the funds to clean up the gulf? Can't have it both ways, genius.

I'd rather BP not have to clean up in the first place. This spill occurred only because they cut corner on safety precautions to save money.
 

miniMUNCH

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2000
4,159
0
0
No matter the industry (oil, transportation, defense, microelectronics, banking, healthcare, telecom, food, law), no matter the cost to society, big business will everything in their power to maximize their profits.

We have to regulate these industries and regulate them hard. The problem is, every last politician of any importance owes one or more 'big business" player "big time"... so our country is basically in the pocket of big business.

With regard to this present discussion related to BP and the oil industry... I say tax it and tax it hard, as hard as possible. we have present and existing technology to drop our dependence on oil by at least 75% over the next ten years, IF we really wanted to.... those main technologies are Thorium nuclear reactor technology, public transportation, and the internet (massive transitions to telecommuting and paperless offices).
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,819
1,126
126
Grow a spine for crying out loud.

Geez this forum just gets dumber and dumber by the day...

Oil companies make money because ... *gasp* ... they provide a product that we want to buy and use.

I don't think the OP or anyone is refuting they provide something we want/need. The point is no matter what side the coin lands on always equals prices go up.

Supplies are low / demand is high = prices go up
Stop driving so damn much...

People drive less...
Supplies are high / demand is low = prices go up

Try to make them accountable = prices go up
CEO sharts pants = prices go up
etc.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
oil is high risk/high reward. it costs about 2 billion for each well, IIRC. so if you build a well and it turns out there's almost nothing there despite your initial surveys... you are screwed.

The thunderhorse platform cost like $5billion to build and it was almost destroyed by a hurricane on its first outing.
 

Sclamoz

Guest
Sep 9, 2009
975
0
0
oil is high risk/high reward. it costs about 2 billion for each well, IIRC. so if you build a well and it turns out there's almost nothing there despite your initial surveys... you are screwed.

At the same time, BP was reaping sizable tax benefits from leasing the rig. According to a letter sent in June to the Senate Finance Committee, the company used a tax break for the oil industry to write off 70 percent of the rent for Deepwater Horizon — a deduction of more than $225,000 a day since the lease began.

But some government watchdog groups say that only the industry’s political muscle is preserving the tax breaks. An economist for the Treasury Department said in 2009 that a study had found that oil prices and potential profits were so high that eliminating the subsidies would decrease American output by less than half of one percent.

Doesn't sound too risky to me.

After reading the article this isn't even a new tax, it's getting rid of loopholes, tax breaks and subsidies so these scumbags have to pay taxes like everyone else.

I think we should cut a deal with them, we raise you're taxes to where they're supposed to be and generously allow you to operate in the US and if any of them try anything we'll nationalize you and start drilling and refining our own oil.
 

AzN

Banned
Nov 26, 2001
4,112
2
0
Raise the gas price to $10 a gallon.. Make that $20 a gallon. See if I care cause I don't drive and don't plan on it. I would love to see less people driving on the road.
 

jackace

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2004
1,307
0
0
There really shouldn't be any regulations on companies, other than making them pay for the damages they cause and if they somehow get too big for their britches then let them fail. New ones will start up. Regulations aren't going to stop this shit from happening in the future. There were already plenty of regulations in place. Nothing works better than making them pay dollar-for-dollar for the damage they did. That alone is enough to keep them in check.

The problem is BP, and other companies who have been in similar situations, will never pay the full cost of their mistake(s). The Gulf area is going to feel the effects of this mess for many years after the cleanup. Not to mention many of the current problems are hard if not impossible to measure. How much do you charge a company for ruining the tourism or fishing industry in an area? ruining the drinking water in an area? Many of these effects just can't be measured, and because of that BP won't be forced to pay. The local people and governments will be forced to take on those burdens.

Edit - Regulations are not always the answer I agree, but in certain industries we have no other choice. When the industries are large and the barriers to entry are large regulation is really our only way to protect consumers, environments, entire economies, etc.
 
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StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
With federal officials now considering a new tax on petroleum production to pay for the cleanup, the industry is fighting the measure, warning that it will lead to job losses and higher gasoline prices, as well as an increased dependence on foreign oil.
Well, this actually sounds like it would be true.
just don't listen to their bullshit and enforce prices too if they retaliate.
Sweet, let's enforce price controls on a globally traded commodity. That won't lead to limits in supply at all.
There really shouldn't be any regulations on companies, other than making them pay for the damages they cause and if they somehow get too big for their britches then let them fail. New ones will start up. Regulations aren't going to stop this shit from happening in the future. There were already plenty of regulations in place. Nothing works better than making them pay dollar-for-dollar for the damage they did. That alone is enough to keep them in check.
Sorry, no.
Raise the gas price to $10 a gallon.. Make that $20 a gallon. See if I care cause I don't drive and don't plan on it. I would love to see less people driving on the road.
How is Mommy going to be able to afford to buy you video games if she's using her money on gasoline?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
A couple of anecdotes on big business versus government.

John Kennedy faced a labor struggle with the steel industry, who also wanted to raise prices that would fuel inflation.

He could have stayed out, none of the government's business, laissez-faire, as the right today would say he should. He didn't, he got involved and had the government mediate the dispute such that labor made its concessions while the owners agreed not to raise prices. Then after the labor was settled, they raised prices.

It was viewed as a slap, 'what are you gonna do about it you lefty kid' move. This was the source of the quote of JFK saying his father had told him all businessmen were sons of bitches but he hadn't believed it before. What JFK did in response was to leverage the major defense contracts buying steel; to threaten the Justice Department would investigate the industry for anti-competitive violations, his brother leading the effort; and a national speech blasting big steel.

He said he had asked the nation to ask what they could do for their country, and he had big steel's answer.

There was enormous behind the scenes pressure, and the government got one company to back off the price increase, forcing the rest to do so.

This was widely viewed as 'government stands up for the public against big business and did the right thing', of course not by the friends of big steel.

A second example, well I completely forgot it.

So I'll mention something else, it's interesting how big business has used enormous pressure when it needs to; it is happy to lie low as long as it's getting its way. In Venezuela, the wealthy class was happy to have a major economic shutdown to try to hurt the economy so much, it would create public pressure to remove Chavez. It was a hugely harmful use of power. They lost the gamble. Companies also did things like sabotage systems, refuse to hand over passwords to the government.

Does anyone have much doubt of the power of big finance, who pretty much runs the Treasury Department, to stand up to government power?

And now that the caps are off for donations, they are free to threaten anyone even more to spend and remove them next election.

One of the most important topics of our political system is the need to prevent any narrow interest from having the government serve it and not the public interest.

I know some on the right somewhat agree, but I think many are naive about how the private sector will abuse power and they support dangerous policies.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Thank god for the industrial military complex, eh Craig? If not for our grossly inflated military budget, Kennedy couldn't have pressured the steel industry. So really, it only costs us hundreds of billions of dollars per year and numerous American lives to keep the steel industry in check. What a deal.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,997
14,513
146
A couple of anecdotes on big business versus government.

John Kennedy faced a labor struggle with the steel industry, who also wanted to raise prices that would fuel inflation.

He could have stayed out, none of the government's business, laissez-faire, as the right today would say he should. He didn't, he got involved and had the government mediate the dispute such that labor made its concessions while the owners agreed not to raise prices. Then after the labor was settled, they raised prices.

It was viewed as a slap, 'what are you gonna do about it you lefty kid' move. This was the source of the quote of JFK saying his father had told him all businessmen were sons of bitches but he hadn't believed it before. What JFK did in response was to leverage the major defense contracts buying steel; to threaten the Justice Department would investigate the industry for anti-competitive violations, his brother leading the effort; and a national speech blasting big steel.

He said he had asked the nation to ask what they could do for their country, and he had big steel's answer.

There was enormous behind the scenes pressure, and the government got one company to back off the price increase, forcing the rest to do so.

This was widely viewed as 'government stands up for the public against big business and did the right thing', of course not by the friends of big steel.

A second example, well I completely forgot it.

So I'll mention something else, it's interesting how big business has used enormous pressure when it needs to; it is happy to lie low as long as it's getting its way. In Venezuela, the wealthy class was happy to have a major economic shutdown to try to hurt the economy so much, it would create public pressure to remove Chavez. It was a hugely harmful use of power. They lost the gamble. Companies also did things like sabotage systems, refuse to hand over passwords to the government.

Does anyone have much doubt of the power of big finance, who pretty much runs the Treasury Department, to stand up to government power?

And now that the caps are off for donations, they are free to threaten anyone even more to spend and remove them next election.

One of the most important topics of our political system is the need to prevent any narrow interest from having the government serve it and not the public interest.

I know some on the right somewhat agree, but I think many are naive about how the private sector will abuse power and they support dangerous policies.

Seriously???

You seriously supported Chavez in this post?

Seriously?

There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that you support totalitarianism, Craig. No doubt at all.

As for your blathering bullshit on Kennedy, gee, what happened to the US steel industry just about a decade after??? That little crap by Kennedy, combined with a whole slew of other government intrusions (including an attempted takeover by Truman AND blocked mergers) and support of unions KILLED the US steel industry.

It simply amazes me that you cannot understand what your ideals lead to.
 
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JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Seriously???

You seriously supported Chavez in this post?

Seriously?

you should learn up on that situation and what caused him to become a figure for change there. He is demonized completely in this countries media but that is by design. I'm not telling you what opinion to form but you should look at past policy of the us if you don't like the present south America.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
There was enormous behind the scenes pressure, and the government got one company to back off the price increase, forcing the rest to do so.

This was widely viewed as 'government stands up for the public against big business and did the right thing', of course not by the friends of big steel.
And the workers of Gary, Indiana, thank JFK every day still to this day for how much he helped this country empower itself against the evils of business.
 
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