Trying to set up a budget car audio system

[Interitus]

First off I apologize if this is the wrong forum. I assumed it would belong here. Mods please let me know if it is more appropriately placed elsewhere.

I've been out of the car audio loop since the early 2000's so I'm admittedly rusty on brands and general knowledge here, but I'm trying to set up a budget level package for my car including amps and subs.

Relevant info:

-Car is a 2005 Chevy Cobalt, no Pioneer audio or OnStar, no steering wheel controls etc.
-Budget is around $1,000-$1250

Goals:

After a freak accident with a deer, my driver side door speaker has been blown/damaged so I decided this would be a good opportunity to just do an overhaul on the whole audio system. I'm not what you would call an audiophile, I just really enjoy a decent sound system with full range capabilities. I'm more of an SQ guy vs. SPL, so subs don't have to have tons of boom, just a good feel and I'd prefer them to be very accurate as I listen to a wide variety of music, some of which requires clean fast paced bass reproduction.

A little background:

The last really well built stereo system I had was a pair of Dynaudio components and Phoenix Gold XMAX 12's on Phoenix Gold Ti amps that I put together in the late 90's. I was thrilled with how that system sounded. I understand I probably won't get that kind of performance on a tight budget, but this is just a reference to something I was very happy with.


I've been browsing the net looking for components, but I haven't really settled on anything for sure yet. A quick system I threw together just by browsing Crutchfield for ideas came out like this:

Head Unit: Clarion CX501 (double din would be nice)
Components: Alpine SPS-610C
Component amp: Alpine MRP-F300
Subs: Infinity 1060w 10" or Clarion WG2510 (or their DVC variants)
Sub amp: Alpine MRP-M500
Rear Fill: either leave stock for now or Alpine SPS 510 coaxials

Total came to about $1010 from Crutchfield.

Any advice or substitutions here is welcome. The rear deck of the Cobalt can take 6x9's as well so that's an option. I just chose the 5 1/4's due to Crutchfield's 50% off a second pair of Alpine's sale till 2/25. The one thing I really have my mind set on is a double din h/u due to the Cobalt looking pretty empty in that area even with the stock double din stereo.

One other thing to think about is that I would like to get the h/u and speakers installed by a reputable vendor. Due to school and work I don't really have the time, tools, or knowledge to fuss with that type of thing, so I would probably only mess with the amps and subs on my own. I would probably just have a shop install the speakers and run the cables necessary for me to finish off the job myself. I also figured this would save me some money by buying the subs/amps online.

Again any advice or product testimony here would be helpful. Thanks for taking the time to read

 

[slugg]

The head unit is really just personal preference. Once amplifiers are in the mix, the HU doesn't really matter much as long as it has the required outputs in the back.

I was going to recommend the exact same setup, except I'd recommend the Alpine Type-R 10" subwoofer in a sealed box. I wouldn't recommend skimping on the amp - get something in the 500 watt range. It's not boomy - its a nice smooth and clean bass up to around 100 hz, which those components level out at 80 hz. You can run a low pass at 80 hz and have a fantastic blend.

Also, if you get a 4 channel amp (doesn't even need to be that powerful, 50+ watts RMS per channel), you can run the Alpine Type-R 6x9 coaxials in the back. They're designed to be used as rear fill speakers, warmer than average and have a smooth taper in the high frequency spectrum. This makes them a perfect match for the components upfront and won't mess with your sound stage much. Just fade the volume up front a tad

I have the same setup in my Accord, except I have the older models of the Type-R stuff. My speakers are running in full range, relying on the built-in crossovers. The subwoofer has a LPF at 80 hz. Fantastic sound quality for the price, plus it can get pretty loud if you want it to. Clean is loud

If you don't buy your stuff from Crutchfield, you can easily get under $1000, for everything down to wiring. Put it all in yourself to make sure nobody botches up your car.

Hope this helps!

Edit: looks like you picked out a good subwoofer amp - I have the same one. Stick with it.

But definitely don't use 5" speakers in the rear! Don't do it. Find some 6x9's that are warm and tapered in the highs, like what I recommended.

 

[Interitus]

Thanks for the input Slugg

I'll look into the 6x9's and the Type-R subs.

The Clarion has 3 preamp outs and 4v signal so it looked good to me for a head unit.

I picked the Alpine amps because they weren't bad on price and I used the V12's back before I got my PG Ti's and I was really happy with them.

Do those components look ok to you? I couldn't really find much more in my price range that looked decent. Any other ones you'd recommend?

The biggest problem with installing the equipment myself is that I live in an apartment with limited space to work and due to work and school I don't have a lot of time to tinker with stuff like this. I'm also lacking in the tools department these days, lol. I'll see if I can find some install guides for my car and see what kind of job I'm in for.

 

[slugg]

Thanks for the input Slugg

I'll look into the 6x9's and the Type-R subs.

The Clarion has 3 preamp outs and 4v signal so it looked good to me for a head unit.

I picked the Alpine amps because they weren't bad on price and I used the V12's back before I got my PG Ti's and I was really happy with them.

Do those components look ok to you? I couldn't really find much more in my price range that looked decent. Any other ones you'd recommend?

The biggest problem with installing the equipment myself is that I live in an apartment with limited space to work and due to work and school I don't have a lot of time to tinker with stuff like this. I'm also lacking in the tools department these days, lol. I'll see if I can find some install guides for my car and see what kind of job I'm in for.

Good choice on the head unit - keep it! I in no way meant to object to it

The Alpine Type-R SPR-60C's are just plain awesome for the price. Very clean sound, but they taper off the low-end at about 80 hz. This means you get great mid-bass, but no low bass. In other words, if you weren't interested in adding a subwoofer, they wouldn't be the best choice. But since you do want a subwoofer, these are perfect. Alpine matched its Type-R series VERY well; the type-R subwoofer is pretty much designed to blend with the SPR-60C components. Heck, if you even completely removed the rear speakers, you'd be in for a treat. They just *need* to be driven by a decent amp, which you seem to already realize, so that's a good thing.

+1 for the Alpine amps. Good bang for your buck, good sound quality. Some would argue that there's better for the price, or you can get the same for less from other brands. In my experience, owning a high quality product from a major brand is very valuable for warranty, support, and resale purposes. If you can afford it, go for it. I would highly suggest their 4 channel model, even if you don't replace the rear speakers yet. This will keep the option available in the future.

You're still going to get audiophile elitist jerks criticizing the setup. No, it's not the best in the world, but neither is a $30k setup. Will it sound good, make you happy, and be problem free? Yes. It's a very neutral setup that can handle all music styles and produce great quality sound. I bet you if you just let people listen and you never tell them your actual setup, they'll think it's some exotic, expensive system. All those super expensive setups are mainly hype, or give negligible gains.

As for installing it yourself, it's not that bad. The worst part is the wiring for powering your amps. But if tools and time is a limitation, then there's not much that can be done other than getting someone to do it. If you wanted to attempt it yourself, just pick a shady spot in a parking lot and chip away at it for 2 hours a day. Your head unit should only take like 45 minutes if you've never done one before, which includes soldering the wiring harness adapter.

 

[marincounty]

My experience is that 6x9s sound like crap, use a 5 1/4" instead.
Rear fill just messes up your soundstage, use it at a low level or don't use it at all.
Alpine is good equipment, but back in the day it was such eye candy that people would break into your car in a heartbeat to steal it.

 

[Plugers]

My experience is that 6x9s sound like crap, use a 5 1/4" instead.
Rear fill just messes up your soundstage, use it at a low level or don't use it at all.
Alpine is good equipment, but back in the day it was such eye candy that people would break into your car in a heartbeat to steal it.

x2 skip rear fill and spend money elsewhere. Active front? Will make tweaking it a bit easier.

 

[slugg]

x2 skip rear fill and spend money elsewhere. Active front? Will make tweaking it a bit easier.

It's certainly easier to set up a system without a rear fill to get the soundstage right. But rear fill is an easy way to make it sound "big" if you're less picky. Like anything else, there are trade offs both ways.

Personally, unless the OP wants to dynamat the car, I'd be less picky.

 

[Interitus]

Sorry for taking awhile to get back to this, been super busy and honestly forgot about it for awhile.

I looked into the Type-R setup, it looks nice, but going with a full Type-R setup is going to be a bit more than I'd like to spend and it brought about another question...

I don't really remember the numbers here, but assuming I don't want to mess with upgrading the electrical systems in the car (still need to look up the stock alt amps), what kind of wattage total should I stay under to avoid excessive light dimming etc..?

I was thinking I would stick with the two Alpine amps (500w + 300w) and then go with the Type-R components, and then I thought maybe I would go with some JL 10w0 v3's. I know those are decent subs and the Alpine 500w amp would be a good fit for two of them. I just wasn't sure that the car would electrically support a larger amp for the Type-R 10's (was thinking the Alpine MRP-M1000 in addition to 300w for comps to meet the 500w RMS on the Type-R subs).

Thanks again for all the help so far.

 

[Plugers]

If you're worried about current draw, check out the PDX-5. Not much more, if any, if you shop around and all class d channel will make it more efficient.

 

[Howard]

diymobileaudio is a good place to check out.

 

[CraigRT]

I had SPS-600C's and an MRP-F300 in my Maxima. They worked well together..
I ran it all off a JVC KD-A815 (Great deck, I love JVC decks)
The system also had an old MTX amp with a type-S sub.
I just split the main power at the back of the car and put both amps on the back of the drivers side rear seat.

 

[Interitus]

CraigRT: Thanks for the testimonial on the SPS comps, I haven't found many people's opinions of them other than sales site reviews.

Plugers: Thanks for the tip on the PDX-5. I had originally disregarded it due to the low wattage for the subs, but looking at some of the birth sheets for them, they seem to put out quite a bit of power more than they're rated for, even if that's rated at 14.4v. Looks like it might be a great match for some SPR-60c's and SPR-69's coupled with the 200-250w RMS subs.

Howard: Thanks for the tip on DIYmobile, lots of good info and I actually found a guy selling a PDX-5 with really nice power ratings that would fit my proposed system perfectly. Now if only I can get around the new member restrictions to actually message the guy, lol.

I also took a peek at the MRX line of amps. Looks like the MRX-M50 and MRX-F30 are the equivalents of the MRP amps, but supposedly they share technology with the PDX line that might make them a better choice. I'll have to look into that more as I'm not quite sure what that means, but they're similar in price so it wouldn't be a big deal to just go that route if I shy away from the PDX-5. I do like the idea of going with a single amp for everything though.

At this point I'm looking at going this route:

Clarion CX501 - $183 Amazon
10" JL Audio 10w0v3 (x2) - $180 Amazon
SPR-60C comps - $158 Amazon
SPR-69 6x9 - $75 Amazon
MRX-M50 sub amp - $155 Amazon OR PDX-5 - $350'ish
MRX-F30 comp amp - $160 Amazon

Total: $945 (before wiring, box, install)

The MRX-F30 is a little weak for the Type-R comps and 6x9's at 50w x 4, so the PDX-5 would probably be a better bet if I can find one with a good power sheet.

 

[evident]

imo don't bother w/ rear fill. a 10" should be fine for a small car like the cobalt, anything else might be overbearing. I have an alpine pdx 4.150 for my fronts and they sound great. i''m not sure what the MRP series of alpine amps are but i can vouch for the pdx series. very low profile, and doesn't seem to fuss.

 

[CupCak3]

Personally, I would be a little more spending on the sub. The higher the efficiency you sub is, the less your amp needs to do for the equiv. volumn. In my last car, I installed a system with similar goals to yours. I made the mistake of getting a cheap sub and very much regretted it.

http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=SDX10
http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/store/categories/Sub-Woofers/
www.ficaraudio.com/

Don't forget a properly designed sub box...

 

[Interitus]

Just wanted to give another thanks to everyone that gave me some input here. I pulled the trigger on all the components and they're on their way. Final setup looks like this:

Head Unit: Clarion CX501
Amp: Alpine PDX-5 (birth sheet says 107x4 + 458x1 @ 14.4v)
Components: Alpine Type-R SPR-60C
Rear Fill: Alpine Type-R SPR-69
Subs: JBL GTO1014 d2

I'm expecting a realistic 85x4 and 400x1 from the PDX-5 taking voltage difference into consideration. I also did A LOT of research on subs before going after the JBL's. Most of the subs recommended here didn't do well in sealed boxes in the volume range I was after. Don't get me wrong they all looked great, especially the Sundown subs, but I just really needed to keep box volume down. Image Dynamics ID10v3's were perfect, but a bit too spendy for me. However, the JBL's modeled VERY close to the ID subs and came highly recommended.

I'm sure I'll be happy with the outcome. I'll bump this one more time when I get it all hooked up in a few weeks and let everyone know how I like the setup.

Thanks again!

 

[CraigRT]

I would seriously consider dropping the rear 6x9's and going fronts only. Once you go fronts only (with a good setup) you'll never go back.

I would go fronts only (components) amplified, and a separate amp for your sub, whether it be mono (expensive) or a 2 channel bridged (but just for the sub)

Soundstage is just so much better with fronts only.. I whole heartedly recommend it.

 

[kornphlake]

You can always run the rear stage on the headunit's integrated amp as well, you'll probably loose some SQ if you've got the volume really cranked up but the fader can keep distortion on the rear speakers under control if you need to get stupid loud.

 

[Interitus]

I would seriously consider dropping the rear 6x9's and going fronts only. Once you go fronts only (with a good setup) you'll never go back.

I would go fronts only (components) amplified, and a separate amp for your sub, whether it be mono (expensive) or a 2 channel bridged (but just for the sub)

Soundstage is just so much better with fronts only.. I whole heartedly recommend it.

I read a lot into the rear fill argument as well. What I gathered from everything I had read was that it comes down to personal preference more than anything else. What I fully intend to do is hook them up and see how I like the sound with the 6x9's present and then try removing them and see which I prefer. I also got some great tips from a member at DIYmobile about how to properly adjust how the rear fill performs. Either way, the amount I paid for the 6x9's wasn't enough to net me anything else major in terms of upgrades, so I can always re-sell them if I decide not to use them.

As far as amps went, on paper I don't have the electrical system umph to consider going with dual amps. Either I would have to stay within the same power envelope, or I would be looking at problems I don't have the money to throw at right now. For what I'm looking at, it didn't make a whole lot of sense to go 2 amps with the same amount of power that I can get from the PDX-5 that already has a very low current draw. Will I possibly upgrade this stuff at some point in the future? Maybe. It depends on how happy I am with the current setup. If I like how it sounds and it gets plenty loud for my tastes, I will probably just leave it be as it is now. I'm not very picky about audio, and I have a feeling this system will more than meet my expectations.

 

[Interitus]

Just got the car back from the installer today.

Sounds amazing and I haven't even tinkered with it yet. Bass is there where it needs to be, and it has enough power to hit pretty good when I want it to. It's not gonna set any records, but I'm happy. It needs a lil' tweaking here and there IMO, but it's definitely not system deficiency, it's more of a x-over points/amp gain type thing. I know they didn't do much with it before handing it over because they busted their arses to get it done by close tonight, which I really appreciated. The rear fill sounds great when faded up front a tad, I honestly don't think it messes up the sound stage at all. I tried with just the fronts and it seemed to make no audible difference to me. If anything, the rear fill made the car seem to have a perceptible "volume" (meaning space) if that makes any sense.

I guess I still have the ear for this though... caught myself saying out loud exactly what I think needs done to the system to make it really shine. I know the gains need set, I'm pretty sure the x-overs need tweaked a bit, and the tweeter attenuator needs dialed down a notch IMO. Can't wait to get at it in daylight and make it sound a lil better.

Overall very happy with the part selection and performance. The JBL subs are VERY nice for a budget sub too. Very accurate and seem to have a very smooth response in .75 cubes each.

-edit-

The Type-R's are LOUD. And good kinda loud, no distortion or sloppiness at all at higher volumes.

The PDX-5 also sips power. Even when I gave the system some oomph at idle with some accessories running, the lighting inside and headlights didn't budge on stock alt and batt.

 

[Plugers]

Glad everything worked out for ya.