TSMC to fab SoC's for ... INTEL

[dbcoopernz]

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20140109PD215.html

 

[monstercameron]

<conspiracy>maximize competitor fabs to lower the amount of chips competitor chip deigners can output</conspiracy>

 

[BrightCandle]

In the past they made atom chips with GF so its not unheard of for Intel to have another company make its processors. But I thought Intel was struggling to keep its fabs full so I find it odd that they are outsourcing this production. Weird.

 

[witeken]

Intel already announced at their investor meeting that SoFia will be made on TSMC's 28nm process. The next iteration of SoFia will be 14nm.

 

[GreenChile]

In the past they made atom chips with GF so its not unheard of for Intel to have another company make its processors. But I thought Intel was struggling to keep its fabs full so I find it odd that they are outsourcing this production. Weird.

Waht? I've never heard of Intel fabbing Atom chips at GF. Source?

<conspiracy>maximize competitor fabs to lower the amount of chips competitor chip deigners can output</conspiracy>

I like the way you think.

 

[Homeles]

Intel is still working on porting their designs acquired from Infineon over to their own processes. In the meantime, ICs utilizing their baseband have to be fabbed elsewhere.

Also, TSMC has fabbed for Intel in the past. There's nothing really remarkable about this. Still interesting, though.

 

[witeken]

Still interesting, though.

A creative idea of an Intel employee that isn't long on the roadmap yet, according to BK .

 

[ShintaiDK]

Sofia discount chips on a cheaper lower node. Nothing new.

 

[bullzz]

intel CEO talked abt sofia being in tsmc due to something about communication processors manufactured there. whats with glofo and umc now

"Sofia discount chips on a cheaper lower node" - i am not sure how its going to be cheaper. after moving to 14nm, intel will have capacity for 22nm. economically it makes sense to use them instead of keeping 22nm fabs idle and paying umc/glofo

 

[ShintaiDK]

intel CEO talked abt sofia being in tsmc due to something about communication processors manufactured there. whats with glofo and umc now

"Sofia discount chips on a cheaper lower node" - i am not sure how its going to be cheaper. after moving to 14nm, intel will have capacity for 22nm. economically it makes sense to use them instead of keeping 22nm fabs idle and paying umc/glofo

22nm is used for other parts. If you look on Intels fab utilization and consider the conversion factor. There isnt really any room left. Its not for fun they build 3 new fabs.

 

[Homeles]

intel CEO talked abt sofia being in tsmc due to something about communication processors manufactured there. whats with glofo and umc now

That's exactly why. Intel's transceiver IP was acquired from Infineon, which had previously been working with TSMC. It'll take time for them to port anything involving the cellular RF to their 14nm process.

"Sofia discount chips on a cheaper lower node" - i am not sure how its going to be cheaper. after moving to 14nm, intel will have capacity for 22nm. economically it makes sense to use them instead of keeping 22nm fabs idle and paying umc/glofo

22nm will be used for eDRAM, most likely. They can also theoretically sell off the extra capacity, provided they're actually able to snag some customers.

The nice thing about TSMC's 28nm process is that wafer prices have bottomed out. It'd still be cheaper to do on their own process, but in the meantime, TSMC will have to do.

 

[Roland00Address]

Just double checking my memory.

SoFIA is going to be the new budget atom 64bit dual core that is coming out in late 2014 designed for cheap phones. We know it was 64 bit for intel reps have stated it will be 64 bit, and we know it will be silvermont ip since the only 64 bit ip intel has that could fit in phones will be silvermont (22nm new atom) or airmont (14nm die shrink), and intel has stated that SoFia will be 22nm.

SoFIA will have a 3G modem which we now know is going to be sourced from fabs that are not intel. We also know that SoFIA will be updated to LTE sometime in 2015.

Finally SoFIA will have some form of value graphics due to its nature and pricing.

Did I get any of this wrong?

 

[Exophase]

That's exactly why. Intel's transceiver IP was acquired from Infineon, which had previously been working with TSMC. It'll take time for them to port anything involving the cellular RF to their 14nm process.

I doubt Intel is integrating the actual RF transceiver in SoFIA. No one else in the industry is, probably because the isolation requirements make it impractical.

Just double checking my memory.

SoFIA is going to be the new budget atom 64bit dual core that is coming out in late 2014 designed for cheap phones. We know it was 64 bit for intel reps have stated it will be 64 bit, and we know it will be silvermont ip since the only 64 bit ip intel has that could fit in phones will be silvermont (22nm new atom) or airmont (14nm die shrink), and intel has stated that SoFia will be 22nm.

SoFIA will have a 3G modem which we now know is going to be sourced from fabs that are not intel. We also know that SoFIA will be updated to LTE sometime in 2015.

Finally SoFIA will have some form of value graphics due to its nature and pricing.

Did I get any of this wrong?

There's no technical reason why a Saltwell-based part couldn't have 64-bit enabled, even if it's for phones. They all had it, it was just fused off. It'd increase power consumption, but not necessarily to the point where it can't work for a lower end phone part.

Not that I think they won't use Silvermont.

 

[witeken]

"Did I get any of this wrong?"
Yes. From what I've heard, 4G SoFia will come "soon" after 3G Sofia. Also, their won't be a 22nm SoFia. It will go from TSMC's 28nm process to 14nm (in 2015).

Or am I wrong?

Apparently. http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/33213-intel-announces-sofia-broxton-2015-atom
4G SoFia won't be a second version of 28nm SoFia (2H14), it will be the 14nm SoFia.
Also, that "soon" doesn't seem to be anywhere near as soon as I thought. 14nm SoFia would arrive in late 2015. http://seekingalpha.com/article/1870441-intels-sofia-could-be-a-real-bombshell

I don't think Intel has announced anything new since the investor meeting: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/di...Broxton_and_SoFIA_Application_Processors.html

Actually, we need to wait until 2016 (late 2015) before Intel has its competitive low-end smartphone soc (certainly if there won't be a 14nm Moorefield successor in between), which is pretty disappointing...
The good news is that Intel will gain a lot of market share and we should have 14nm Goldmont Willow Trail with gen9 graphics in 2014 while it prepares for Broxton in mid-2015.

In the end, it isn't really going to be "within 3 years" as Tom's Hardware predicted from a market share perspective, but it's will be a very aggressive strategy nonetheless. And if we take the launch of Bay Trail as starting point, it will be within 3 years indeed.

Mobile: Intel Will Overtake Qualcomm In Three Years

 

[cbn]

Here is what I found:

http://intelstudios.edgesuite.net/im/2013/archive/bk/archive.html

Listening to BK's presentation above he starts talking about step one at 30:30 into the video. (He describes step 1 as SoFIA in 2014 and SoFIA LTE in 2015).

At 31:01 into the above video, BK starts talking about step 2 which is to bring the SoFIA series into the Intel fab at 14nm.

So it is interesting that "Step 1" actually has two parts: SoFIA and SoFIA LTE, but it is not mentioned when "Step 2" will occur (SoFIA manufactured on 14nm).

 

[NTMBK]

Here is what I found:

http://intelstudios.edgesuite.net/im/2013/archive/bk/archive.html

Listening to BK's presentation above he starts talking about step one at 30:30 into the video. (He describes step 1 as SoFIA in 2014 and SoFIA LTE in 2015).

At 31:01 into the above video, BK starts talking about step 2 which is to bring the SoFIA series into the Intel fab at 14nm.

So it is interesting that "Step 1" actually has two parts: SoFIA and SoFIA LTE, but it is not mentioned when "Step 2" will occur (SoFIA manufactured on 14nm).

Late 2015, at a guess? It's a low end budget part, so it won't get the cutting edge process node.

 

[Enigmoid]

Intel will probably use 22nm capacity for chipset production.

 

[Roland00Address]

It looks like both SoFIA (2H 2014) and SoFIA LTE (2015) will both be built on external foundries. If SoFIA are built on external foundries that means no finet and no intel 22 or 14 nm.

 

[witeken]

There should be a 14nm SoFIA in late 2015.

 

[lefty2]

Intel makes all it's modems at TSMC.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7234/intel-talks-about-multimode-lte-modems-xmm7160-and-beyond
XMM7160 is still built on TSMC&#8217;s 40nm CMOS process, and its SMARTi 4G transceiver is built on 65nm at TSMC, the new XMM7260 will be 28nm

 

[ShintaiDK]

There should be a 14nm SoFIA in late 2015.

Not from TSMC or GloFO, those are still 20nm, just with finfets.

 

[Homeles]

I doubt Intel is integrating the actual RF transceiver in SoFIA. No one else in the industry is, probably because the isolation requirements make it impractical.

I'm not all too knowledgeable regarding anything analog, so I very well could be wrong.

 

[witeken]

Not from TSMC or GloFO, those are still 20nm, just with finfets.

Intel 14nm.

"In late 2015, Intel will introduce SoFIA with 4G/LTE, which will be made using 14nm process technology at Intel’s fabs."
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/di...Broxton_and_SoFIA_Application_Processors.html