No, but she needs Turkey to control the refugee traffic. The bigger EU countries aren't exactly happy with recent Erdogan's actions.
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No, but she needs Turkey to control the refugee traffic. The bigger EU countries aren't exactly happy with recent Erdogan's actions.Does Merkel still want Turkey in the EU
Does Merkel still want Turkey in the EU? What a disaster for Europe that lady has turned out to be.
No, but she needs Turkey to control the refugee traffic. The bigger EU countries aren't exactly happy with recent Erdogan's actions.
No, but she needs Turkey to control the refugee traffic. The bigger EU countries aren't exactly happy with recent Erdogan's actions.
Great, so when is Merkel and company going to tell Turkey to stop supplying ISIS? To stop attacking the Syrian, Kurd and Russian forces that are trying to restore order and (as a consequence) end ISIS.
Just to put what you are claiming into perspective.....Israel has time and time again invaded Syrian skies without Russia`s permission! Russia does not have the technology to enforce a no fly zone!What's the net effect of Turkey's action? They wanted to scare Russians out of the Syrian airspace, but instead have given Russia the justification for setting up an effective no fly zone over Syrian areas of Russian interest. Russia can now legitimately treat any uncoordinated entry into the Syrian air space, especially by Turkey, as a threat to Russian forces. Effectively, Syrian skies are closed to Turkey, whereas Russia can provide close air support to Assad's forces in rebel held territories, and can use the revenge for the shot pilot as a justification.
Dream much?? The Russians are a shell of there former self and everything being equal the turks would win!No matter what they have, and im telling you i know very well what they have, they are not a match for the Russians.
The stakes are too high for TR or RU to start World War III. Expect tough words and sanctions and vacation boycotts at most.
Btw, how do you like this hypocrisy--Erdogan flying into a rage because a Turkish jet strayed into Syria briefly, offering Syria pretext for shooting it down: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...pace-violation-does-not-justify-a6748146.html
Erdogan, for those who don't know, is the de facto leader of Turkey no matter what his official title is, similar to Putin's place in Russia. Erdogan has ignored the Turkish Constitution at will, such as being a blatantly partisan President (unconstitutional under their system). He also wanted to amend the Turkish Constitution to give himself greater power after he stepped down from PM to President. He's basically a Islamist wannabe-Putin who has said such gems as how Muslims discovered America:
http://www.vocativ.com/world/turkey-world/president-tayyip-erdogan-quotes/
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/18/erdogan-ridicule-muslims-discovered-america
Also see (Erdogan is paranoid, sees enemies everywhere inside and outside of the state which is why he jails journalists at the drop of a hat and personally sues everyone who even thinks of insulting him for libel (including a 16 year old boy), bans social media, sees himself as the leader of the Middle East even though Turkey has alienated most of its neighbors by now):
http://news.yahoo.com/cockroaches-made-want-palace-says-turkeys-erdogan-150049344.html
http://www.newsweek.com/sultan-erdogan-conquers-istanbul-338365
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/er...-show.aspx?pageID=238&nID=76853&NewsCatID=510
http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/04/turkey-global-erdogan-islam-opinions-columnists-melik-kaylan.html
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32302697
http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/14/9734910/turkey-reddit-internet-ban
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-access-to-Facebook-Twitter-and-YouTube.html
If you had any doubt that Erdogan sent weapons to unsavory groups in Syria, including the predecessor to Daesh:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/21/us-mideast-crisis-turkey-arms-idUSKBN0O61L220150521
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dc0_1444058967
http://www.todayszaman.com/national...im-mi-t-transported-arms-to-syria_405283.html
He's also corrupt as fuck, personally enriching his family:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_corruption_scandal_in_Turkey
And he and his mobsters discussed a false flag attack to "justify" attacking Syria:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/turkey-you...onversation-between-erdogan-officials-1442161
Erdogan has implied in the past that he doesn't like democracy and sees it as a stepping stone, Hitler-style (remember, Hitler was voted into power), in order to create a new Caliphate for the Muslim world. Totally delusional. Putin may be an asshole sometimes (see, e.g., Ukraine, shooting down all those Dutch airline passengers indirectly), but at least he isn't clinically insane like Erdogan.
So like it was before then? Turkey and Syria have been downing each others jets for years.What's the net effect of Turkey's action? They wanted to scare Russians out of the Syrian airspace, but instead have given Russia the justification for setting up an effective no fly zone over Syrian areas of Russian interest. Russia can now legitimately treat any uncoordinated entry into the Syrian air space, especially by Turkey, as a threat to Russian forces. Effectively, Syrian skies are closed to Turkey, whereas Russia can provide close air support to Assad's forces in rebel held territories, and can use the revenge for the shot pilot as a justification.
What's the net effect of Turkey's action? They wanted to scare Russians out of the Syrian airspace, but instead have given Russia the justification for setting up an effective no fly zone over Syrian areas of Russian interest. Russia can now legitimately treat any uncoordinated entry into the Syrian air space, especially by Turkey, as a threat to Russian forces. Effectively, Syrian skies are closed to Turkey, whereas Russia can provide close air support to Assad's forces in rebel held territories, and can use the revenge for the shot pilot as a justification.
Just to put what you are claiming into perspective.....Israel has time and time again invaded Syrian skies without Russia`s permission! Russia does not have the technology to enforce a no fly zone!
It will be interesting to see how both Russia and Turkey act in the next few weeks. It will also be interesting to see what happens to the sortie rate for France and the USA in the next few weeks -- I'm guessing the rate drops.
I highly doubt there will be any BVR engagements.
But just to add that the SU-27/30/33/35 has better BVR capabilities against the F-16. The SU-27/30/33/35 has longer radar target acquisition, higher air speed and higher operational altitude. Also it can carry the long range BVR missile (K-77M) that its operational range is higher than the AIM-120 AMRAAM the F-16 carries.
The SU-27 and its family was designed as an AIR Superiority Fighter to engage the F-15, the F-16 is inferior in every way and has no hope against it in BVR.
"NEW DELHI: In some of the most intense international air combat exercises ever featuring the Indian Air Force, IAF pilots flying Sukhoi Su-30 MKI fighters had a resounding 12-0 scoreline in their favour against Royal Air Force Typhoon jets in Within Visual Range (WVR) dogfighting operations.
In subsequent Large Force Exercises (LFE) which featured combined Eurofighter Typhoon and Su-30 formations, the IAF jets were somewhat less successful but consistently held an edge over the Typhoon.
...
The Large Force Engagements saw 4 v 4 engagements at beyond visual range and graduated to a massive 8 v 8 engagement featuring 16 aircraft in the skies near Coningsby.
On 8 February 1995, a Turkish F-16 crashed into the Aegean after being intercepted by Greek Mirage F1 fighters.[114][115]
On 8 October 1996, 7 months after the escalation over Imia a Greek Mirage 2000 reportedly fired an R.550 Magic II missile and shot down a Turkish F-16D[116][117] over the Aegean Sea. The Turkish pilot died, while the co-pilot ejected and was rescued by Greek forces.[113][118][119] In August 2012, after the downing of a RF-4E on the Syrian Coast, Turkish Defence Minister İsmet Yılmaz confirmed that the Turkish F-16D was shot down by a Greek Mirage 2000 with an R.550 Magic II in 1996 after violating Greek airspace near Chios island.[120]
On 23 May 2006, two Greek F-16s intercepted a Turkish RF-4 reconnaissance aircraft and two F-16 escorts off the coast of the Greek island of Karpathos, within the Athens FIR. A mock dogfight ensued between the two sides, resulting in a midair collision[121] between a Turkish F-16 and a Greek F-16. The Turkish pilot ejected safely, but the Greek pilot died due to damage caused by the collision.[122][123]
Having an Su-24 shot down by an F-16 has about as much significance as an A-10 Warthog being shot down by an Mig-29.
Kinda funny seeing people talk about F-16s taking down SU-30SM models.
Hint : It's not 1995 anymore.
WVR (Within Visual Range) the Indian variant SU-30MKI defeated Typhoons - these are dogfights - 12 to 0. The Typhoon entered service in 2003 with NATO and is a far superior aircraft to the F-16, which is now a 40 year old platform.
Source :
And in BVR (Beyond Visual Range) it was closer, but still a win for the Su-30MKI :
Turkey doesn't have a stellar history with their F-16D fighters :
Russia flies a superior Su-30'SM' variant. It is an upgrade to the Su-30 that entered service in 1996.
Russia doesn't have many of these aircraft though, 39 total of the SM version.
At least four are in Syria.
The only aircraft that is a clear threat to the su-30SM is the F-22 and possibly the F-35. Turkey does not have the F-22, only the USA has that.
When Russia aircraft are flying close to Turkish airspace they are confronted not only with Turkish aircraft but also SAM threats. Not sure what Turkey's SAM inventory is, but at close range any aircraft is in danger from a capable SAM system.
The latter Sukhoi fighters are very good aircraft, but the AMRAAM is a very capable missile that would make life difficult for Russia. Russian aircraft are optimized for dog fighting while western doctrine favors BVR engagements. I'm not so sure the SU-30 would win against an F-16 firing an AMRAAM. With Turkey fighting from home ground while Russia is the away team Turkey would have the advantage in numbers and proximity.
One thing I'm quite worried about is long range shots that could reach pretty deep into opposing territory. A SAM fired from Latakia at a Turkish F-16 might wind up 10's of miles deep into Turkey and similarly, an AMRAAM fired at a Russian plane in Turkish territory might travel 10's of miles into Syria before blowing the Russian plane out of the sky. Engagements that begin one place don't necessarily end there.
But again, lets hope they decide to grow up and avoid situations that could escalate into something globally threatening.
Brian
Just to put what you are claiming into perspective.....Israel has time and time again invaded Syrian skies without Russia`s permission! Russia does not have the technology to enforce a no fly zone!
Kinda funny seeing people talk about F-16s taking down SU-30SM models.
Your opinion is not a majority opinion! In fact your opinion is based on what? Textbook facts?I highly doubt there will be any BVR engagements.
But just to add that the SU-27/30/33/35 has better BVR capabilities against the F-16. The SU-27/30/33/35 has longer radar target acquisition, higher air speed and higher operational altitude. Also it can carry the long range BVR missile (K-77M) that its operational range is higher than the AIM-120 AMRAAM the F-16 carries.
The SU-27 and its family was designed as an AIR Superiority Fighter to engage the F-15, the F-16 is inferior in every way and has no hope against it in BVR.
You can fly in Syria until an S400 missile hits you.
That depends. Are we talking about a F-16A or a F-16IN?