Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria

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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,591
7,652
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Thats not how western/NATO airforces are operating in peace time.

I've heard someone argue that by violating NATO rules of engagement, Turkey is not legally eligible to invoke NATO's protection.
Not that Russia will attack them in their own country. But it's an interesting consideration. NATO members aren't "allowed" to do this !@#$.
 

Magic Carpet

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2011
3,477
232
106
Depends on the Russian site! I speak fluent Russian.
So do I.

You mean to tell me that you would believe Russian sources?? hmmmm...ok!
I take every news with a grain of salt.

Here's the latest development:

As well as denying Ankara’s assertions that the plane was in Turkey’s airspace, Murakhtin also refuted Turkish officials’ claims that the pilots were warned repeatedly.

“In actual fact there were no warnings at all. Neither through the radio, nor visually, so we did not at any point adjust our course. You need to understand the difference in speed between a tactical bomber like a Su-24, and that of the F16. If they wanted to warn us, they could have sat on our wing,” said Murakhtin, who is currently recuperating at Russia’s airbase in Latakia, northern Syria.

“As it was, the missile hit the back of our plane out of nowhere. We didn’t even have time to make an evasive maneuver.” Source.
Turkey, should of silenced all the witnesses. Heh.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,525
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Turkey, should of silenced all the witnesses. Heh.

Yes, because Russia and the Russian military has a long track record of not egregiously lying. I guess that's why they are still not occupying Crimea, engaged in Ukraine, etc, etc.

I'm always amazed at how people still fall for Russian propaganda even after being steadily lied to for at least the last year and a half. I guess that means they are good at it?
 

Magic Carpet

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2011
3,477
232
106
Yes, because Russia and the Russian military has a long track record of not egregiously lying. I guess that's why they are still not occupying Crimea, engaged in Ukraine, etc, etc.
You accuse Russia of lying? Russia isn't the only one. Sure, they have their own style but that's fine with me. Variety is good.

I'm always amazed at how people still fall for Russian propaganda even after being steadily lied to for at least the last year and a half. I guess that means they are good at it?
Not everything is a lie, come on. Like this:

Russia will be deploying S-400 missile defense systems to Syria, the Russian defense minister says.
Maybe, we will see it in action one day. Can't wait for a duel against the EA-18 Growler.
 
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Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
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S-400 missile systems should really take it to ISIS air force. Or is Russian going full retard and try to shoot down a NATO members planes? That will escalate a situation and end badly for Russia.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,591
7,652
136
S-400 missile systems should really take it to ISIS air force. Or is Russian going full retard and try to shoot down a NATO members planes? That will escalate a situation and end badly for Russia.

Sort of like shooting down Russian planes will end badly for Turkey.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
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Sort of like shooting down Russian planes will end badly for Turkey.

In what way? Any response by Russia will invoke a NATO response. Given Russian capability against the hapless Ukranians, the FSA, and now Turkey. It would be a horrible outcome for the Russians if they want to escalate.

I dont think Putin will push this very far. He doesnt hold the cards in this arrangement. Too much to lose to fight over a recon plan that violated airspace rules 10 times.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
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In what way? Any response by Russia will invoke a NATO response.

Are you implying NATO will attack Russia because they downed a Turkish aircraft in the boarder of Syria after what Turkey did ???

I can tell you right now thats not going to happen.

edit: Im certain none of the NATO members are happy with Turkey shooting down that Russian plain the way they did.
 
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Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
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Are you implying NATO will attack Russia because they downed a Turkish aircraft in the boarder of Syria after what Turkey did ???

I can tell you right now thats not going to happen.

They will defend Turkey against any Russian aggression.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
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They will defend Turkey against any Russian aggression.

Only if Russia invade Turkey, and that is not going to happen. NATO will do nothing else but protest if Russia shoot down a Turkish F-16 or F-4.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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If Turkish planes make aggressive moves towards Russian controlled parts of Syria, Russia will shoot to kill. NATO won't do anything. No one will risk a nuclear war over the Turks getting killed, not when the Turks picked this fight.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
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Only if Russia invade Turkey, and that is not going to happen. NATO will do nothing else but protest if Russia shoot down a Turkish F-16 or F-4.

If Russia goes into Turkey to shoot them down? You better believe NATO will respond.
 

dawheat

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
3,132
93
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Only if Russia invade Turkey, and that is not going to happen. NATO will do nothing else but protest if Russia shoot down a Turkish F-16 or F-4.

I doubt Russia would do so - this isn't the Ukraine they're pushing around and Turkey's leaders are hot headed enough to respond by downing additional Russian planes.

One thing Putin isn't is stupid - Russia is engaged in several engagements and doesn't need another one against a modern military, especially one that can close off the Black Sea.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,884
34,846
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Only if Russia invade Turkey, and that is not going to happen. NATO will do nothing else but protest if Russia shoot down a Turkish F-16 or F-4.

Turkey would have Russia by the short and curlies in the region if they wanted to do tit for tat reprisals, they wouldn't even have to (or desire to) invoke Article V.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
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If Russia goes into Turkey to shoot them down? You better believe NATO will respond.

No Russian fighter will fly inside Turkish airspace and shoot down a Turkish fighter.

But, a Russian air fighter flying close to the Syrian/Turkish borders could engage and shoot a Turkish fighter flying in Turkish airspace and claim that the Turkish fighter violated Syrian airspace.

Looks familiar ??
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,884
34,846
136
If Russia goes into Turkey to shoot them down? You better believe NATO will respond.

Turkey might elect not to invoke Article V. Russia would probably get the shit beaten out of it if they decided to get into a little war with the Turks. Overrunning parts of the Ukraine is one thing...taking on the Turks is an entirely different proposition.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
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No Russian fighter will fly inside Turkish airspace and shoot down a Turkish fighter.

But, a Russian air fighter flying close to the Syrian/Turkish borders could engage and shoot a Turkish fighter flying in Turkish airspace and claim that the Turkish fighter violated Syrian airspace.

Looks familiar ??

If Russia is going to play that game it will also end badly for them. I dont think Putin is this stupid. He is a calculated sociopath. People like him take what they can. In this case there isnt anything to gain from your scenario.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
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Turkey might elect not to invoke Article V. Russia would probably get the shit beaten out of it if they decided to get into a little war with the Turks. Overrunning parts of the Ukraine is one thing...taking on the Turks is an entirely different proposition.

That is a big risk for Turkey is it not?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
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Russia doesn't care about fighting a war on Turkey. There is nothing to be gained from it for either. Russia kicked Turkey's ass enough times to get it out of its system. If anything, this is their excuse to tell everyone else to STFU about bombing the "moderate rebels" and get out of their sand box. I love how Al Qaeda is now "moderate rebels" with American weapons and with NATO as their air force. The US learned nothing from 9/11 and where supporting terrorists for short term tactical goals leads.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
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Turkey might elect not to invoke Article V. Russia would probably get the shit beaten out of it if they decided to get into a little war with the Turks. Overrunning parts of the Ukraine is one thing...taking on the Turks is an entirely different proposition.

Its another thing to shoot down a SU-24 reconnaissance plain that wasn't expecting to be shoot by an air target in the first place and another thing to play against SU-27/33/34 etc etc
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
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Greeks looking to Russia to attack Turkey. It really is WWI all over again.

We are not looking for anyone to attack Turkey, we already have billions of problems in the neighborhood. Another one will only make things worst for every country in the east Mediterranean.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
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Turkey might elect not to invoke Article V. Russia would probably get the shit beaten out of it if they decided to get into a little war with the Turks. Overrunning parts of the Ukraine is one thing...taking on the Turks is an entirely different proposition.

Russia took on the Turks and kicked their ass time and again and again.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
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If Russia is going to play that game it will also end badly for them. I dont think Putin is this stupid. He is a calculated sociopath. People like him take what they can. In this case there isnt anything to gain from your scenario.

Did you expect a Turkish fighter to shoot down a Russian SU-24 a few days ago ???
 
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