Actually Turkey and the KRG have good relations. Thing is Turkey can close down the Bosphorus to all Russian traffic. Might have to go look up the treaty on that one. It is very old, older than the UN or even World War 2. Believe it was created just after World War 1.
I'll save you from looking it up - I was interested, so I did.Following World War I, the 1920 Treaty of Sèvres demilitarized the strait and made it an international territory under the control of the League of Nations. This was amended under the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne, which restored the straits to Turkish territorybut allowed all foreign warships and commercial shipping to traverse the straits freely. Turkey eventually rejected the terms of that treaty, and subsequently Turkey remilitarized the straits area. The reversion was formalized under the Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Turkish Straits of July 20, 1936. That convention, which is still in force, treats the straits as an international shipping lane save that Turkey retains the right to restrict the naval traffic of non-Black Sea states.
Turkey has been warning Russia for weeks to respect it's air space.
It's not like they suddenly decided to shoot it down with no warning. They were specifically told that they would be shot down if they did it again. What did Russia do?
The Syrian military alleged that the fighter aircraft had violated Syrian airspace. However, Turkish president Abdullah Gül and other spokesmen have not confirmed this, though Gül said that "it is routine for jet fighters to sometimes fly in and out over [national] borders".
I'll save you from looking it up - I was interested, so I did.
The passage of US warships through the Straits also raised controversy, as the convention forbids the transit of non-Black Sea nations' warships with guns of a calibre larger than eight inches (203 mm). In the 1960s, the US sent warships carrying 305 mm calibre ASROC missiles through the Straits, prompting Soviet protests. The Turkish government rejected the Soviet complaints, pointing out that guided missiles were not guns and that such weapons had not even existed at the time of the Convention's agreement so were not restricted.[25]
In April 1982, the Convention was amended to allow Turkey to close the Straits at its discretion in peacetime as well as during wartime.[26][verification needed]
The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), which entered into force in November 1994, has prompted calls for the Montreux Convention to be revised and adapted to make it compatible with UNCLOS's regime governing straits used for international navigation. However, Turkey's long-standing refusal to sign UNCLOS has meant that Montreux remains in force without further amendments.
So you're saying that it's not unexpected to get shot down if you repeatedly fly over someone else's territory and get asked not to?
The June 2012 interception of Turkish aircraft by the Syrian Armed Forces on 22 June 2012 resulted in the shooting down of a Turkish F-4 reconnaissance jet.
Time to take off the gloves. Turkey is an ISIS supporter. Kurds are ISIS enemies. If US won't arm the Kurds, Russia should. And give them anti-aircraft weapons too, in case Turkey violates their airspace.
So you're saying that it's not unexpected to get shot down if you repeatedly fly over someone else's territory and get asked not to?
Yeah, I am of the same opinion. Russia is likely to arm the Kurds with AA weapons to prevent such accidents from re-occurrence. I am not sure if the downed aircraft had AA missiles, likely not. Sucks when you can't fight back.Time to take off the gloves. Turkey is an ISIS supporter. Kurds are ISIS enemies. If US won't arm the Kurds, Russia should. And give them anti-aircraft weapons too, in case Turkey violates their airspace.
I think it had been carefully planned and the recent Russian bombing raids on oil trucks / ISIS infrastructure was the trigger point for the Turks (they have made a fortune buying/reselling cheap oil).They were specifically told that they would be shot down if they did it again. What did Russia do?
Source.The son of Erdoğan it seems is the man who makes the export sales of ISIS-controlled oil possible
Proof?
^^^without knowing exactly what happened besides the news I don't think it would have been weak of Turkey to escort them and give a one time pass.
LOL
And I hope the Russians do that since America seems somewhat constrained. Guess we are sending arms and SF to the YPG.
The pilot was not over Turkish airspace when he was repeatedly warned.
There is plenty of proof. Let me get a link.
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/links-between-turkey-and-isis-are-now-undeniable-2015-7
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2396530&highlight=
Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.
The plane was not threatening or bombing them. So what's the upside to shooting it down?
Giving Kurdish rebels Russia as an ally and source of sophisticated weapons to kill Turks? Losing Russian tourism dollars and gas transit contracts?
Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.
The plane was not threatening or bombing them. So what's the upside to shooting it down?
Giving Kurdish rebels Russia as an ally and source of sophisticated weapons to kill Turks? Losing Russian tourism dollars and gas transit contracts?
No idea. Might not be good for the Turks, but it might be especially not good for the Russians. Seems that Hollande and Obama are holding a press conference right now, and that reminded me that America and France might work together very closely in the Middle East right now. And the weakest link of NATO will against the Russians were the French and Germans. And if the French and Americans are running their Middle East operations in tandem together .....
Russia is not next to Syria, Turkey is.
They already got more than a few "one time passes".
The helicopter was parked when it was shot with a TOW. Have no idea what happened to the aircrew yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IschF-ihjS0
Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.
Right, but the 10th Special Forces just deployed to Ukraine, and Crimean Tatars are cutting off all the powerlines to the Crimean Peninsula.
We won't know this until/if the voice black box gets deciphered. Accidents are bound to happen in war zones, I doubt the pilot did this intentionally.And 10 in just this one incident. Sounds like a pilot got a bit cocky like "What are they going to do" and got a bit of a surprise.
Much of that first link is just conjecture and hearsay. Of course Turkey will do anything to stymie the Kurds, that's their modus operandi and part of that could have been turning a blind eye to ISIS activity in Kurdish regions. Every state actor has to look after their own interests first but that's a far cry from tacit support of ISIS.
Agreed, outwardly it seems like a foolish mistake and even worse considering the pilots were shot while parachuting down. But like all things, there's more to it than we know behind the scenes. I'm almost certain the US was aware of this and probably gave Turkey it's approval to engage.