Turkey to join EU... but are its people ready?

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: Aimster
because of the barbaric actions of a few

Is it me, or does this phrase seem to come out a lot when talking about Muslims and Islam?

So you are suggesting only Muslims target non-Muslims in hate crimes?

Jews are the most hated people in the U.S (they are number 1 for the number of attacks in hate crimes).
I wonder who targets them?

Minorities are always victims in majority nations.

you only hear that phrase a lot because P&N has certain members always creating B.S posts trying to label small actions to Islam as a whole

You could make any religion or group appear bad if your audience is close-minded and generalizes a lot.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Turkish
If you think this is the way majority of Turks feel about non-muslims, you are sadly mistaken. Hopefully the party that is in power at the time holds a referendum because 80% of Turks don't want the EU. Maybe when Europe washes off its racism, we'll favor in joining :thumbsup:

Oric, thanks for that post... but don't sweat it... just search for threads on Turkey. AnitaPeterson will be in every one of them and she'll be dissing Turkey even when BBC, The Economist and many other respectable media were applauding it for all the improvements in human, civil and social rights. AnitaPeterson, I have seen it plenty of times in the last 4 years, we get it: You hate Muslims and the Turks. It's ok. We don't care

And a few years ago, they were overwhelmingly in favour. Let's face it, everybody wants the nice things from the EU - live and work anywhere, lots of development aid, trade etc, but when it comes to actually making tough changes and following what they say... then suddenly its not worth it anymore.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Originally posted by: Turkish

No need for you to give me that anti-Turkish Kurdish propoganda. I am half-Kurdish, half-Bulgarian by blood and was born in Turkey to be a proud Turkish citizen.

But I am glad you gave me the details of your hatred for Turkey. Good to know after 4 years. Have Albania and Serbia for your eventually collapsing union, couldn't care less

Oh and most Europeans are far less racist than you are so don't try to argue for their guilt.

No, my friend, you're wrong. I don't care about you enough to hate you.

If you want to talk about hate, I have spoken to Greeks who still hate the Turks for destroying the Byzantine state, sacking Constantinople and killing its emperor, and who still hope that one day they'll be able to reclaim Hagia Sofia. Now *that* is what I call hatred (and unrealistic, wishful thinking).

I'm amused at your accusations of using Kurdish propaganda, especially since I don't think I ever bother to follow it. And I remember the PKK is/was banned in Germany, which is probably one of the best indicators of its worth.

You have all the rights to be proud of your heritage, citizenship and cultural values. Anyone is entitled to say that, even North Koreans.

I study history, I recognize patterns, I even venture to make predictions. I am totally dispassionate when I tell you Turkey, as of this moment, has not done enough for EU accession. You cannot assimilate within the European economic, judicial, political and cultural system, and you don't respect European values. "Collapsing union" ? The EU will collapse at some point, sure, it's in the nature of all human collectivities. I just don't think it will happen in your lifetime, though.

As for the "racist" epithet, I hope you don't seriously believe Turks are a separate race, and I really don't think you qualify for making that presumption. You are entitled to believe whatever you want. I probably speak with more Hungarians, Romanians, Poles, Austrians, Czechs, Dutch, Germans, French, Italians, Bulgarians, Croatians etc. than you do, on a regular basis - unless you work for the United Nations, or the Customs Services.

I kind of wonder about the fact that you've admitted stalking me for 4 years on these forums...

The rest is white noise.

 

[CanOWorms]

It's interesting to see the usual Turkey denies genocide statement despite the fact that Europeans are probably the most well-known genocide deniers. They accept the genocides of others, but not of themselves (except partially for Germany when it comes to WW2 - but not their other deeds). The British deny their worldwide genocides and glorify their barbaric Empire. The French still deny Algeria, Rwanda, etc.

I can't even believe that someone is talking about Turkish colonialism and its colonialism and its negative affect on countries today when European colonialism through the centuries have provided devastating affects on a much grander scale.

Those are negatives, but not negatives that keep Turkey apart from the EU. Those are similarities, not differences.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

When dead people talk to me, I leave it to others to respond. When they're idiots, too, there's no response warranted.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
When dead people talk to me, I leave it to others to respond. When they're idiots, too, there's no response warranted.

I'm assuming that you're admitting that I broke apart your grade school argument.

 

[babylon5]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
It's interesting to see the usual Turkey denies genocide statement despite the fact that Europeans are probably the most well-known genocide deniers. They accept the genocides of others, but not of themselves (except partially for Germany when it comes to WW2 - but not their other deeds). The British deny their worldwide genocides and glorify their barbaric Empire. The French still deny Algeria, Rwanda, etc.

I can't even believe that someone is talking about Turkish colonialism and its colonialism and its negative affect on countries today when European colonialism through the centuries have provided devastating affects on a much grander scale.

Those are negatives, but not negatives that keep Turkey apart from the EU. Those are similarities, not differences.

In England/France, who exactly is denying their colonial history you speak of? Most citizens? Has someone in France been attacked in media for mentioning its colonial past?

And has someone in France been attacked and murder by fanatic because of mention about Algerian War? Or the France government brought someone to trial in court for mentioning Algerian war they started?

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: babylon5

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
It's interesting to see the usual Turkey denies genocide statement despite the fact that Europeans are probably the most well-known genocide deniers. They accept the genocides of others, but not of themselves (except partially for Germany when it comes to WW2 - but not their other deeds). The British deny their worldwide genocides and glorify their barbaric Empire. The French still deny Algeria, Rwanda, etc.

I can't even believe that someone is talking about Turkish colonialism and its colonialism and its negative affect on countries today when European colonialism through the centuries have provided devastating affects on a much grander scale.

Those are negatives, but not negatives that keep Turkey apart from the EU. Those are similarities, not differences.

In England/France, who exactly is denying their colonial history you speak of? Most citizens? Has someone in France been attacked in media for mentioning its colonial past?

Many citizens deny the devastating affects of their colonialistic past. Most British view the Empire positively even though it is probably the most genocidal and bloodthirsty organization ever formed on Earth - hundreds of millions were massacred through its activities. France passed a law making the positives of their colonialistic past mandatory to be taught in schools until great effort by Chirac to have it removed. France still to this day denies any involvement in Rwanda.

And has someone in France been attacked and murder by fanatic because of mention about Algerian War? Or the France government brought someone to trial in court for mentioning Algerian war they started?

There are lots of cases of people in Europe being brought up on charges for denying genocides or history revisioning or whatever they want to call it.

 

[babylon5]

I see. I wonder how Americans view its violent past, such as genocide of Native Americans. Would they view the USA as today as positive result despite what happened?
Uneducated public are everywhere. But sometimes people are just more interested in today, making money or whatever, to worry about the past.

Every country probably in some sort of level of denial of their past. I just don't think Britain or France had gone as far as charging someone with a crime for calling attention to their genocide past as it had happened in Turkey. It just seems a little more extreme in Turkey about the denial.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: babylon5
I see. I wonder how Americans view its violent past, such as genocide of Native Americans. Would they view the USA as today as positive result despite what happened?
Uneducated public are everywhere. But sometimes people are just more interested in today, making money or whatever, to worry about the past.

I don't think many people would view the genocide of Native Americans as a positive. But it's interesting that you brought that up because that's another genocide that the European public seems to have been "educated" to forget about.

Every country probably in some sort of level of denial of their past. I just don't think Britain or France had gone as far as charging someone with a crime for calling attention to their genocide past as it had happened in Turkey. It just seems a little more extreme in Turkey about the denial.

If you're talking only about the governments, then the Turkish government has done an extreme by prosecuting people who admit a genocide (I agree with you). However, I think that it's just as an extreme as Europeans prosecuting people who deny genocides.

However, when talking about non-governmental behavior, then the populations are very similar.

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: babylon5
I see. I wonder how Americans view its violent past, such as genocide of Native Americans. Would they view the USA as today as positive result despite what happened?
Uneducated public are everywhere. But sometimes people are just more interested in today, making money or whatever, to worry about the past.

Every country probably in some sort of level of denial of their past. I just don't think Britain or France had gone as far as charging someone with a crime for calling attention to their genocide past as it had happened in Turkey. It just seems a little more extreme in Turkey about the denial.

The people simply don't care about the Armenian genocide. A tiny minority may, and those are extremists. I don't care about it because neither I nor any of my relatives in the past 80 years had any part in it. Old men of an old empire did. It's history. Europe can go back in time and ask the Ottoman sultans to apologize.

The current Turkish state will never recognize a genocide against Armenians because it would open a legal path for Armenians to sue the state and claim damages in form of $$$. No government would accept that, so Armenians will continue their wishful thinking and the Turks will keep denying it.

As an anti-EU Turk, I would like to see an agreement between Armenia and Turkey that would end all this without any damage to the Turkish state but I don't think that's gonna happen without war... which would obviously end with devastating affects to Armenia. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

 

[fstime]

Turkey is a hidden junta, the military still holds much of the power and still pressures the government. Look at all the coups...

Other issues would be Cyprus, Turkey still holds 50,000 troops on the divided island which is a member of the EU as a whole.

They're other issues as well, such as air space violation is so on.



Economically, their population of 65 million is no small number.

Although they are no worse than Romania or Bulgaria economically, it is a much larger burden on the EU's shoulders.

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: BouZouki
Turkey is a hidden junta, the military still holds much of the power and still pressures the government. Look at all the coups...

Other issues would be Cyprus, Turkey still holds 50,000 troops on the divided island which is a member of the EU as a whole.

They're other issues as well, such as air space violation is so on.



Economically, their population of 65 million is no small number.

Although they are no worse than Romania or Bulgaria economically, it is a much larger burden on the EU's shoulders.

We Turks much rather have a strong military than an Islamist Jihad-loving government.

And the Cyrpiots did not accept a UN plan to unite the island (even though the Turkish side did accept), which would have meant Turkish army would leave the Island. So sorry, Turkey would do nothing more till the island is united under a balanced act.

 

[Aimster]

I love Turkey's military. It is very impressive.

Turkey's economy is also growing at a very fast rate. In 2008 GDP will be 750 Billion.
GDP Per Capita has already exceeded 10,000.

For a nation with no oil revenue, I give Turkey props.

My Favt. Pic

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
I've worked with the European Commission.
I've studied the EU for a long time.
I keep in touch with academia members and analysts specialized in history and European politics.
Turkey will NOT become part of the European Union in the foreseeable future, certainly not in the next decade.

OMG Anita more of your misinformation.....sad

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
Oric, like I was telling one of your journalist compatriots two years ago... you need to acknowledge the Armenian genocide, make peace with the Greeks and take care of the Cyprus problem as well. As it stands right now, the Greeks are dead set against having Turkey in the same economic and political union...

You also need to address the problem of your country becoming a gateway for Islamic militants penetrating the European continent.

And I really fail to see how the fate of the European Union hangs in the balance over accepting Turkey... sorry, but you're not *that* important. Besides your stranglehold on the Black Sea-Mediterranean shipping lanes, there's not much you can use as an ace.

So whats your true agenda Anita......
Turkey needs to acknowledge nothing at all......
Oric hit the nail on the head!!
Too bad you can`t post as honestly as Oric who ia Turkish to begin with!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Turkish
If you think this is the way majority of Turks feel about non-muslims, you are sadly mistaken. Hopefully the party that is in power at the time holds a referendum because 80% of Turks don't want the EU. Maybe when Europe washes off its racism, we'll favor in joining :thumbsup:

Oric, thanks for that post... but don't sweat it... just search for threads on Turkey. AnitaPeterson will be in every one of them and she'll be dissing Turkey even when BBC, The Economist and many other respectable media were applauding it for all the improvements in human, civil and social rights. AnitaPeterson, I have seen it plenty of times in the last 4 years, we get it: You hate Muslims and the Turks. It's ok. We don't care

all true ands good points!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Turkish
By the way Anita, why does Europe protect terrorists? I am sure it is because semi-auto weapons don't kill.

Exactly!!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
When dead people talk to me, I leave it to others to respond. When they're idiots, too, there's no response warranted.

Thats just a fancy way of saying you can`t hang with people who actually know what they are talking about when it comes to Turkey.......

 

[fornax]

Firstly, there are crazy bigots everywhere (including here - remember the killings of many even remotely resembling the ignorant Americans' idea of a Muslim after 9/11). Secondly, Turkey will never join the EU (as much as Britain and the US want). There will be some kind of association, but nothing like the membership of the current members.

 

[Aimster]

Britain wants Turkey to join the EU?
I didn't know that.

I just thought it was Bush.

 

[BarneyFife]

No way Turkey gets in during the next 20 years. They have too many social issues.

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: Turkish

Originally posted by: BouZouki
Turkey is a hidden junta, the military still holds much of the power and still pressures the government. Look at all the coups...

Other issues would be Cyprus, Turkey still holds 50,000 troops on the divided island which is a member of the EU as a whole.

They're other issues as well, such as air space violation is so on.



Economically, their population of 65 million is no small number.

Although they are no worse than Romania or Bulgaria economically, it is a much larger burden on the EU's shoulders.

We Turks much rather have a strong military than an Islamist Jihad-loving government.

And the Cyrpiots did not accept a UN plan to unite the island (even though the Turkish side did accept), which would have meant Turkish army would leave the Island. So sorry, Turkey would do nothing more till the island is united under a balanced act.

The Annan plan was a joke, plain and simple.

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: BouZouki

Originally posted by: Turkish

Originally posted by: BouZouki
Turkey is a hidden junta, the military still holds much of the power and still pressures the government. Look at all the coups...

Other issues would be Cyprus, Turkey still holds 50,000 troops on the divided island which is a member of the EU as a whole.

They're other issues as well, such as air space violation is so on.



Economically, their population of 65 million is no small number.

Although they are no worse than Romania or Bulgaria economically, it is a much larger burden on the EU's shoulders.

We Turks much rather have a strong military than an Islamist Jihad-loving government.

And the Cyrpiots did not accept a UN plan to unite the island (even though the Turkish side did accept), which would have meant Turkish army would leave the Island. So sorry, Turkey would do nothing more till the island is united under a balanced act.

The Annan plan was a joke, plain and simple.

Why, because it gave equal rights to the Turks? :roll:

 

[TheChort]

Originally posted by: Turkish

Originally posted by: babylon5
I see. I wonder how Americans view its violent past, such as genocide of Native Americans. Would they view the USA as today as positive result despite what happened?
Uneducated public are everywhere. But sometimes people are just more interested in today, making money or whatever, to worry about the past.

Every country probably in some sort of level of denial of their past. I just don't think Britain or France had gone as far as charging someone with a crime for calling attention to their genocide past as it had happened in Turkey. It just seems a little more extreme in Turkey about the denial.

The people simply don't care about the Armenian genocide. A tiny minority may, and those are extremists. I don't care about it because neither I nor any of my relatives in the past 80 years had any part in it. Old men of an old empire did. It's history. Europe can go back in time and ask the Ottoman sultans to apologize.

The current Turkish state will never recognize a genocide against Armenians because it would open a legal path for Armenians to sue the state and claim damages in form of $$$. No government would accept that, so Armenians will continue their wishful thinking and the Turks will keep denying it.

As an anti-EU Turk, I would like to see an agreement between Armenia and Turkey that would end all this without any damage to the Turkish state but I don't think that's gonna happen without war... which would obviously end with devastating affects to Armenia. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

92 years ago, my ancestors lived in turkey (formerly Armenia). Most of them died during the Genocide. God knows how many more cousins and aunts and uncles I would have had, and where my family would have been living today.

I really wish the Turks would care... :|