Turn PC off every night or leave it on 24/7? (Discussion)

[Smoblikat]

I shut down mine as well and i usually cut the power also.... (Turn power strip off)

Why waste power and your resources??


Do you leave the stove on WHEN YOUR NOT USING IT??

A stove is not a computer. Apples to oranges.

 

[sys-eng]

In my case, I have a UPS, but most <$1000 UPSes will only last 30 minutes at very most on brand new batteries if all the planets and galaxies align properly. They wont save you from extended outages, and those are the ones that are bad as everything has time to cool off. In my case I lost lot of hardware after a single 4 hour power outage.

But yeah a UPS is a must, it will at least save you from power blips and short outages.

The reason I recommended UPS is not for extended runtime in the event of AC power loss but to provide time for graceful shutdown. APC and CyberPower UPS have a software interface to the computer that can be set to shutdown the computer when the battery runtime is down to 5 minutes or whatever you set. This prevents a sudden loss of power and data corruption.

Depending upon what I have plugged in at my bench, my APC UPS is sometimes down to 7 minutes of reserve with 4-5 PC's running but that is plenty of time to shut them down gracefully and prevent damage.

I have come across some customer's computers that did not have the software installed but that is because they were just ignorant about it. I took care of it for them.

 

[Modelworks]

i disagree about the fact that starting up and stopping regularly is harder on the drive. in my experience, drives left to spin all the time will wear out much faster. the bearings go, and then the motor cant even spin the drive up properly, causing a fatal error.

its best to turn your pc off at night, if you can.

Drives are not using metal bearings anymore, they use fluid bearings that are made up of liquid that keeps the parts separated. It is cheaper to produce and prevents wearing out. The only downside to it is that during a cold start the viscosity of the fluid is lower and this can cause a slight, very slight wobble to the platters till it gets to speed, this is another reason not to turn off drives.

 

[wirednuts]

then the motors are wearing out. something is. im just speaking from my own experience, but drives that are left in computers that never shut off die quicker then drives in computers that are turned off every night. this is not even a debate in my eyes- ive seen it so many times

 

[wirednuts]

The reason I recommended UPS is not for extended runtime in the event of AC power loss but to provide time for graceful shutdown. APC and CyberPower UPS have a software interface to the computer that can be set to shutdown the computer when the battery runtime is down to 5 minutes or whatever you set. This prevents a sudden loss of power and data corruption.

Depending upon what I have plugged in at my bench, my APC UPS is sometimes down to 7 minutes of reserve with 4-5 PC's running but that is plenty of time to shut them down gracefully and prevent damage.

I have come across some customer's computers that did not have the software installed but that is because they were just ignorant about it. I took care of it for them.

im pretty sick of UPS units. they work great, but you must replace the batteries every 24months. i dont care about the graceful shutdowns, to me its more about the voltage regulation making life easier on the power supply... but when i have to spend at minimum $25 a year on batteries then fuck it. its not a big cost but after a few years of never having a power outage or spike you start to wonder why you even try to protect something that doesnt need to be.

definitely depends on how good of a line your power company is giving you though.

 

[PsiStar]

I completely agree with wirednuts.

I have gone thru several expensive UPS units over the years. Replacing batteries ... ehhh ... they cost nearly as much as a new unit before shipping. I had a least 2 UPS units that failed in a mode that tripped the breaker in the main breaker box. That is more times than power has gone out due to the mains failing in almost 2 decades.

Use a UPS when budget & service provide & qualify respectively. If you cannot afford a quality (aka expensive) UPS, do not waste the money. Perhaps it has been my pure dumb luck, but the only corrupted files I have had in the past 10 years has been due to HDD failures and/or the motherboard failing ... probably caused by the PSU failing!! :'(

If you want reliable computers, keep them clean & buy quality components.

 

[C1]

Drives are not using metal bearings anymore, they use fluid bearings that are made up of liquid that keeps the parts separated. It is cheaper to produce and prevents wearing out. The only downside to it is that during a cold start the viscosity of the fluid is lower and this can cause a slight, very slight wobble to the platters till it gets to speed, this is another reason not to turn off drives.

Hard drive failure is specified as MTBF which means the number of hours that the drive is running.

Look at the reliability section of Table 3.2 for Hitachi drives:
http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/246120309EB74B5886256E440064ED37/$file/10K300_SCSI_Functional.v6.pdf

MTBF :Expected 1,200,000 hours

But notice the line item denoted "Life" :

"Life of the drive does not change in the case that the
drive is used intermittently."
============
Power off your HDDs if you want them to last.

 

[PsiStar]

Following that link indicates that HDD reliability is inversely correlation with temperature. Increased dirt accumulation == increased temp == decreased reliability.

Keep them clean. Shutting off or sleep mode shuts off all fans which slows the rate of dirt accumulation but does not eliminate it.

 

[sys-eng]

im pretty sick of UPS units. they work great, but you must replace the batteries every 24months. i dont care about the graceful shutdowns, to me its more about the voltage regulation making life easier on the power supply... but when i have to spend at minimum $25 a year on batteries then XXXX it. its not a big cost but after a few years of never having a power outage or spike you start to wonder why you even try to protect something that doesnt need to be.

definitely depends on how good of a line your power company is giving you though.

The APC units I get at Sam's Club are usually less than $150 so they are not the higher end expensive units. The batteries have been lasting at least 36 months. I have found that replacing the UPS is often the same price as replacement batteries unless I get batteries made locally. I view $25/year for insurance really cheap. We have big thunderstorms in my area so everyone here loses power sometimes.

Have a QuickBooks POS database or a 800-MB PST file corrupted once because of power loss to a disk drive and $150 seems really cheap.

 

[wirednuts]

since when is a ups an acceptable means of backing up data?

 

[Red Squirrel]

The reason I recommended UPS is not for extended runtime in the event of AC power loss but to provide time for graceful shutdown. APC and CyberPower UPS have a software interface to the computer that can be set to shutdown the computer when the battery runtime is down to 5 minutes or whatever you set. This prevents a sudden loss of power and data corruption.

Depending upon what I have plugged in at my bench, my APC UPS is sometimes down to 7 minutes of reserve with 4-5 PC's running but that is plenty of time to shut them down gracefully and prevent damage.

I have come across some customer's computers that did not have the software installed but that is because they were just ignorant about it. I took care of it for them.

Oh yes for sure, need to install that software. I have mine setup to power off all the VMs gracefully, send a shut down to other physical servers, then shut off itself.

since when is a ups an acceptable means of backing up data?

Hmm think we're on to something, a UPS with a built in NAS. Just because.

As for replacement batteries, I always go to a local electrical shop, they are like 1/4 the price APC asks for and literally the same battery. APC just puts their label on it. It's a silly game, they wont accept a 3rd party battery in the case of warranty issues, even though the only difference is their sticker.

 

[PsiStar]

.
.
.
As for replacement batteries, I always go to a local electrical shop, they are like 1/4 the price APC asks for and literally the same battery. APC just puts their label on it. It's a silly game, they wont accept a 3rd party battery in the case of warranty issues, even though the only difference is their sticker.

Quite bit off topic, but I can't let that go & I think I am a techy that ought to know ... but obviously I do not. What kind of local electrical shops are we talking about? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[wirednuts]

batteries plus would be one example

 

[Red Squirrel]

Quite bit off topic, but I can't let that go & I think I am a techy that ought to know ... but obviously I do not. What kind of local electrical shops are we talking about? Inquiring minds want to know.

I get mine from Dixon Electric. Though I think they're local to my town, so it may vary per city. Normally stuff is expensive here, but something heavy like lead acid batteries it makes more sense to buy local.

 

[dualsmp]

My PC doesn't even use that much power when idle ~60w, however I set it to sleep after 30min. Sleep uses 2w, and wakes up in less than 5 seconds.

I do a complete shutdown only when installing software or drivers.

 

[sys-eng]

since when is a ups an acceptable means of backing up data?

I have not read a post here suggesting that a UPS performs data backup. The UPS provides additional protection so that backups do not have to be restored and data is not lost since the last backup.

Consider this example:
A complete image was made 4 days ago and incrementals since then. At about 6:00 PM, a lightening bolt blows a nearby power transformer and AC power is lost until 7:00 PM. A small store that is open 7:00 AM - 10:00 PM is running QuickBooks POS on the "server" and 3 workstations. All the computers stop due to power loss. The QB data file is corrupted because the workstations did not update the database before they "closed out". All the transactions performed that day must be edit manually which will probably take several hours. If any of the systems have corrupted files because of the outage, that is more hours to restore. Although the power returned at 7:00 PM, the store must close early and lose 3 hours of sales because the system has not been restored. This is a real live example that I handled just a last summer. They thought they were protected because they had regular backups but computer systems are just not that simple.

 

[Modelworks]

Following that link indicates that HDD reliability is inversely correlation with temperature. Increased dirt accumulation == increased temp == decreased reliability.

Keep them clean. Shutting off or sleep mode shuts off all fans which slows the rate of dirt accumulation but does not eliminate it.

If they are in a case with fans for the HDD it doesn't matter, the amount of dirt it would take to prevent cooling isn't likely in anything but the case sitting on a pile of dirt.

My drives never break the 100F temp.

 

[Modelworks]

then the motors are wearing out. something is. im just speaking from my own experience, but drives that are left in computers that never shut off die quicker then drives in computers that are turned off every night. this is not even a debate in my eyes- ive seen it so many times

FBD fail on startup or shutdown if the drive is bumped because the fluid hasn't reached the correct viscosity and a bump can cause the two surfaces to collide causing wear. Fluid bearings have been in use for longer than hard drives and they fail only when the fluid leaks or the surfaces collide .

My experience is the opposite for drives failing. I have seen more fail when cycled than when powered continuously . I have never had a single failure of a drive that was working, it always failed at the next power on.

 

[Dude111]

I completely agree with wirednuts.

Yup he speaks the truth!!!

 

[Ausm]

sleep/hibernation FTMFW

^^

 

[turn_pike]

I leave my computer running 24/7 cos I dont have to pay for electricity.

What do you guys use to deal with all the accumulated dust ? Is there a quality budget dust blower that you guys can recommend ?

 

[pandemonium]

The only way I know to properly clean a computer of dust/hair/gunk:

1. Power off
2. Unplug components
3. Clear residual charges (ground yourself via metal on the case that is still plugged in)
4. Detach heatsinks and fan assemblies
5. Wipe down heatsinks, processors, and fans with 70% isopropyl alcohol dipped Qtips
6. Wipe clear with dry Qtips
7. Let thoroughly dry
8. [Attempt to] spray clear unreachable gunk inbetween fins on heatsinks and areas in your case where build-up has occurred
9. Re-apply paste to processors, re-attach heatsinks and fans, re-seat components

Dust blowing with compressed air alone while everything is installed doesn't get the solid gunk off and sometimes just lodges all that crap further into heatsinks. Not to mention, it also blows all the fine dust into the air and gives you some lovely viruses if you end up inhaling it. (I know, I know; bad joke, haha!)


Unnecessary Lawyers-are-everywhere Disclaimer: Please don't attempt if you're not completely comfortable with handling electrical components.

 

[hyrule4927]

I run Folding@Home on my desktop pretty close to 24/7, so it is almost never turned off. I turn my laptop off when it's not in use, but it's been folding pretty close to 24/7 as well lately.

 

[sm625]

Not a single comment about leaking electrolytic capacitors in this whole thread? The question is: does leaving the same power supply on those caps help or harm their longevity? Does cycling power thru those caps 2 or more times a day help or harm their longevity? I would be inclined to believe that not cycling power thru them would be best, but I have no actual evidence. Only anecdotal.

 

[Cyrus9008]

I disagree with most of the people on here that say turning your computer on and off hundreds of times has no effect on longevity on computers. I humbly disagree, of all the computers I have built over the last 15 years 90% of the computers that had parts fail were the ones I have built for people that shut them on and off over the course of the day. My personal computers that I never shut off, or shut off very rarely have had parts last for several years that don't fail at all.

Think about it it's better to leave something warm(not blistering hot) then to constantly subject it to temperature changes several times a day. It makes perfectly logical sense.