TV tuners sensitivity

[Jimminy]

What brands / models of TV have the best tuners? Most sensitive, selective, etc. I live in the sticks and want to be able to pick up fairly distant (30- 50 miles) UHF stations. I don't care much about fancy gizmos, smart stuff, roku, whatever.

 

[Tech Junky]

I switched to a PC quad tuner awhile back but there's also quad tuner boxes you can feed into your home network. Single point to feed the antenna to which means no splitter to kill the signal to multiple locations on the home.

Then it comes down to having the antenna on the correct side of the house aimed at the towers. There's a website that tells you based on your location to figure it out.

 

[Muadib]

It's all about the antenna when trying to get distant tv stations. What antenna are you using OP?

 

[Jimminy]

Yes I know, but I'm old, disabled, and don't have the physical ability to put up a tower or guyed mast, rotors ect.
And not rich enough to hire it done.

I'm using an old philips indoor antenna with a built in amp. I've used about half a dozen others over the years, but this old one still works best. Im using an insigia 41 " TV. But I've tried several others, like a relative's sharp roku 50". Boy it wouldn't pick up much, using same antenna, etc. A real dog, tuner wise.

It may well be that what I have now is the best I can do, but in case this old insignia dies, it'd be nice to know if there are any real good performers around.

@ tech junky
I hadn't thought about a separate tuner. Maybe that's something to look into.

 

[Tech Junky]

separate tuner

Using that wording also reminds me of when things switched to digital and there were tuner boxes being sold everywhere for $25. Most of the TV units being sold these days are just monitors without tuners inside.

"Dtv tuner" in Google will get you options that don't rely on the TV.

 

[Jimminy]

Using that wording also reminds me of when things switched to digital and there were tuner boxes being sold everywhere for $25. Most of the TV units being sold these days are just monitors without tuners inside.

"Dtv tuner" in Google will get you options that don't rely on the TV.

Yeah, I had several of the old digital TV boxes. Some were better than others. Thanks for the google suggestion. It might turn up something interesting.

 

[Tech Junky]

The tuner boxes or HDHR Silicon Dust options typically will work well when paired with a good coax cable and decent antenna. I have some flat panel antennas I use and sometimes it seems like they're pulling too much signal or the signal is getting tweaked from the transmitter side. Lately it's been ABC that's been an issue when recording through Plex. Moved it about 8 feet and seems to have went away.

RF is a PITA sometimes. With your distance though minor tweaks shouldn't have a huge impact. Right now I'm using a 1/3 (3x12) flat panel but, there's a 12" panel that's rated for further distances. The larger one is "nocable 30" which can be found on Amazon but they also have a "50" that puts an amp inline.

On the tuner side though I'm using the internal card I mentioned but also went the HDHR route as well to test ATSC3.0 which worked fine but, Dolby decided to use a codec for audio that Plex won't unlock / license. The AC4 audio works fine for live stuff but drops on recordings. I've been cable free though since 2015 or 2016 IIRC. Completely cable free though since '22. Switched to using 5G/LTE and progressed from a packaged service to a DIY setup which cut ~$30/mo off the packaged device/service.

 

[blckgrffn]

My experience has been that this is an under rated feature on TVs as it can actually vary way more than you might think.

I was just installing TV's at my parents new-to-them condo in an area that supposedly had great reception for all channels.

The super cheap 32" Roku TV from Walmart that I got on a BF deal with some rabbit ears did RF channels OK but couldn't really get the UHF channels and OFC my parents were like "that's the one channel we need!"

Meanwhile, we returned a broken $500 75" version of the same TV and came back with a TCL S series for maybe $100 more. Put it in the basement with another $20 Walmart antenna and I was ready for more song and dance.

I kid you not, this TV in the basement with the same antenna on the the floor in the basement got better reception than the TV upstairs.

And of course this something that rtings and the like don't seem to have great testing for as its so based on your location.

So here's what I learned - there are differences between TVs. The TCL S class TV seemed pretty good even at value prices. I would think anything with a NextGen ATSC 2.0 tuner is probably pretty premium on that front too, my 2020 Sony does pretty well but I've not compared it other TV's in my house, I just have a new 4 tuner SD with NextGen tuning.

 

[Muadib]

Unless you took the basement tv upstairs, your findings mean nothing. More testing is needed.

 

[blckgrffn]

Unless you took the basement tv upstairs, your findings mean nothing. More testing is needed.

Why move the TV when I could just move the antenna? That doesn't make much sense.

(laughing at a mental image of carrying a 75" TV room to room in a house to test reception )

A cheap TV unable to tune UHF well? Not that uncommon it seems, based on "internet" research.

In this test, using identical antenna one TV was incredible sensitive placement - antenna must be facing the right way, near window) and the other one just wasn't. If you think I am going to tempt fate by FAFO on the good TV that's ludicrous. I breathed a huge sigh of relief and was done with it. Already the TV is mounted about 8" too low at the highest setting of the wall mount (although ideal for seated viewing as I had originally intended) and that's one mistake they are overlooking already.

 

[blckgrffn]

The tuner boxes or HDHR Silicon Dust options typically will work well when paired with a good coax cable and decent antenna. I have some flat panel antennas I use and sometimes it seems like they're pulling too much signal or the signal is getting tweaked from the transmitter side. Lately it's been ABC that's been an issue when recording through Plex. Moved it about 8 feet and seems to have went away.

RF is a PITA sometimes. With your distance though minor tweaks shouldn't have a huge impact. Right now I'm using a 1/3 (3x12) flat panel but, there's a 12" panel that's rated for further distances. The larger one is "nocable 30" which can be found on Amazon but they also have a "50" that puts an amp inline.

On the tuner side though I'm using the internal card I mentioned but also went the HDHR route as well to test ATSC3.0 which worked fine but, Dolby decided to use a codec for audio that Plex won't unlock / license. The AC4 audio works fine for live stuff but drops on recordings. I've been cable free though since 2015 or 2016 IIRC. Completely cable free though since '22. Switched to using 5G/LTE and progressed from a packaged service to a DIY setup which cut ~$30/mo off the packaged device/service.

I am using Emby for TV Tuning since I watch sports and need to be able to break in mid-recording. Plex server for all the other media because its so slick and works so well for what it is. Bought licenses for both, no regrets. I haven't noticed drops on the audio in Emby, but NFL season is coming up and I just got the new tuner setup. Of course two OTA channels in my market (Minneapolis) are in the vanguard for enabling OTA DRM and so I have to use the legacy ATSC tuning for those channels. My Sony TV has an ATSC 3 native tuner so I use that for reference and it can tune the DRM channels but oof can it be slow to switch to them. Remember old school channel surfing? Ha.

For a antenna on those I used the existing coax runs in our house and then attached an inexpensive sound bar looking antenna that sits on a dresser in our main bedroom where a TV could have been placed. We've got a thick stand of poplar between us and the spot where most antennas are so getting it up as much as possible helped and then I had noticed it was sensitive to people walking between the signal and the antenna so I put in a low traffic spot. The attic would be best but I was trying to avoid that. In order to keep the signal loss to a minimum I disconnected all the coax runs except to the the main TV, the antenna and the SD HD tuner.

Man, Windows Media Center is still the gold standard for me.

 

[Muadib]

Why move the TV when I could just move the antenna? That doesn't make much sense.

(laughing at a mental image of carrying a 75" TV room to room in a house to test reception )

A cheap TV unable to tune UHF well? Not that uncommon it seems, based on "internet" research.

Because to say one tv is working better than the other when they are in two different locations doesn't work. As the working tv in the basement working better than the upstairs tv something has to move. You could take the smaller tv to the basement if that's easier. I had no clue on the size of the set in the basement, because you didn't say the size of the new TCL until today.

 

[blckgrffn]

Because to say one tv is working better than the other when they are in two different locations doesn't work. As the working tv in the basement working better than the upstairs tv something has to move. You could take the smaller tv to the basement if that's easier. I had no clue on the size of the set in the basement, because you didn't say the size of the new TCL until today.

Still, what? Antenna placement is everything. Why does the TV need to move?

 

[Tech Junky]

drops on the audio

You won't in atsc 1 / ac3 but, dvr apps won't pick up atsc 3 / ac4 because of licensing / royalties.

 

[blckgrffn]

You won't in atsc 1 / ac3 but, dvr apps won't pick up atsc 3 / ac4 because of licensing / royalties.

Hmm, interesting. I definitely flipped Emby into tuning the ATSC3 stream, so I wonder if it is transcoding that or what. I'll have to check.

Definitely the DRM enabled channels it just refuses to attempt.

 

[Tech Junky]

For me let's say channel 2 is atsc 1 and 102 is atsc 3. Through Plex I can view and get audio on 2 but, 102 has no audio unless I go through the hdhr box live through the app

Besides this BS I switched to AMD and my internal tuner card worked again where it had stopped on my last Intel setup so, I put the hdhr in a drawer. I'm open to other dvr platforms if they can make ac4 audio work but, there's no atsc 3 internal options at this point and the channels aren't doing a thing special. They're just simulcast with a different audio codec at this point. A few years into it you would think they would be enabling the features in the standard by now.

 

[blckgrffn]

Good points - although the 1080p sports broadcasts POP - the higher resolution+higher bit rate make a crazy difference in color. My whole family was like "wow" when I flipped between channels.

Finally the guide in the Sony sees the channels "correctly" but its so frustrating when the new ATSC3 channels have no guide data or aren't shown correctly - or they aren't even flagged as different so based on how much data your interface is giving you have to guess at which is which. This is such a bumbling and industry driven (for questionable reasons) rollout that its hard to see how it goes well.

Not only that, but they (broadcasters) can sunset their previous version ATSC broadcasts like 2 years after they enable their ATSC3 broadcasts? That's so not going to happen.

Our local public TV actually has NextGen features, like on-demand and OF COURSE you can donate during a fundraising drive by just hitting the button on your remote But at that point, its like I'll just launch the app for public tv? It's so niche and the idea that ATSC3 requires internet for bidirectional traffic is just ridiculous.

You inspired me to login to my Emby box - its been months - and sure enough has a backlog of Windows Updates and notice to reboot for Emby server update. Thanks for that as well

 

[blckgrffn]

Looks like Emby is recording it if its there (previewing in browser locally on Emby PC):



I need to go test an Android TV device with direct playback to see if its still transcodes it. Obviously plays back very smoothly with this transcoding settings.

And it looks like with the right playback device it’s in its full glory:



Now if only 50% of the channels I wanted weren’t DRM disabled :/ Freaking ridiculous.



OP, the rabbithole is real for using additional tuners, too! On the upside, the Emby and Plex plugins on Android and Roku devices (what I have access to) work well.

 

[Tech Junky]

@blckgrffn

Hmm... Maybe I'll have to hook up the HDHR again and rescan things to see if it will go native. I've changed quite a bit of stuff since the last attempt with ATSC 3. I still don't think Plec will decode AC4 though based on their pushback on the closed codec. Last time I had it hooked up though nothing was broadcasting beyond 720/1080 which kind of made it pointless other than the internal card was only pulling 50% of the channels for some reason in the Intel box. I think the Intel board has some gremlins though after swapping to AMD some stuff magically cleared up and worked again. If I could have figured that out earlier on i would have skipped the HDHR box purchase back then. Luckily I'm a bit of a hoarder when it comes to tech gadgets and keep them for awhile after initial testing/use.

 

[blckgrffn]

@blckgrffn

Hmm... Maybe I'll have to hook up the HDHR again and rescan things to see if it will go native. I've changed quite a bit of stuff since the last attempt with ATSC 3. I still don't think Plec will decode AC4 though based on their pushback on the closed codec. Last time I had it hooked up though nothing was broadcasting beyond 720/1080 which kind of made it pointless other than the internal card was only pulling 50% of the channels for some reason in the Intel box. I think the Intel board has some gremlins though after swapping to AMD some stuff magically cleared up and worked again. If I could have figured that out earlier on i would have skipped the HDHR box purchase back then. Luckily I'm a bit of a hoarder when it comes to tech gadgets and keep them for awhile after initial testing/use.

It was only recently - like late last fall? - that any of this went live and it was only in a few areas. For some reason my area was tip of the spear, there's been a good amount of cleanup in the Sony Tuner interface and other software support bits in the time since then.

Plex is known (IMO) to have TV Tuning as a "feature" but its not a flagship feature in terms of being leading edge. That's what pushed my into Emby (and its own pile of internal politics, closed sourcing, etc.) but it has "better" TV support. At least it did when I turned it on.

If you discover Plex has moved the needle please update the thread and I'll take another look, too

 

[Tech Junky]

Plex

I don't know about the needle but there's been a flurry of updates lately. I quit reading the notes on them though.

I'm running a Hisense px2 these days after playing with their px1-pro. Downside is the 2 doesn't have a tuner inside but, it's brighter which means it's more visible during daytime. Their GUI is pretty much Google TV and there's not much bloat to be seen. It even got a FW update at one point already.

 

[mindless1]

I would seek tuner box reviews, because it's a lot more likely that someone has put them head to head to test the primary thing they are meant to do, rather than a less commonly used feature like the OTA tuner on a modern TV.

IIRC, most if not all of the government subsidized tuner boxes back in the day, only had analog output. I could be wrong, but ideally you can avoid a separate analog-digital converter if you get something with HDMI output.

I might try to narrow my choices to what is available from amazon or walmart, then if what you order doesn't work well, less of a hassle to return it. With walmart I mean to a local B&M store. However the same could be done with the TVs themselves, but then I would only shop walmart or another local B&M so you aren't shipping back something that large, assuming it will fit in your vehicle to return locally.