tweaktown gx2 review

[Extelleron]

Me, I'm waiting till R700 launches and I'm most interested in single-GPU RV770. As long as performance is good and pricing is reasonable, that's my next card. Really hope AMD hits it right this time because I want to go back to AMD just like the good 'ole days with my X1900XT 512MB.

Of course, nVidia will probably come in a few months later and crush AMD with GT200... but maybe AMD will surprise us.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
that 55nm shrink sounds like pure fud. nvidia barely has time to do it before introducing gt200. maybe they'll keep 9xxx around as midrange parts and shrink them to 55nm.

It's completely logical if GT200 is a late Q3-early Q4 '08 product. 65nm G92 launched in early Q4 '07, 55nm G92 launches in Q2 to soften the blow from R700, then GT200 launches in the H2 timeframe to compete against (maybe) 45nm R700.

Q2 starts in 2 weeks. The redesign necessary to switch from 65nm to 55nm probably isn't worth the effort for just a few months. remember that amd didn't go down 1/2 step from r600 to rv670, they went down a full step, well 2 half steps anwyay so basically a full step. nvidia isn't going to shrink their die size until the refresh of gt200 next year, mark my words. amd will do the same, the only question is whether they go to 45nm or, um, 38nm or whatever half step they pick next.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
that 55nm shrink sounds like pure fud. nvidia barely has time to do it before introducing gt200. maybe they'll keep 9xxx around as midrange parts and shrink them to 55nm.

It's completely logical if GT200 is a late Q3-early Q4 '08 product. 65nm G92 launched in early Q4 '07, 55nm G92 launches in Q2 to soften the blow from R700, then GT200 launches in the H2 timeframe to compete against (maybe) 45nm R700.

Q2 starts in 2 weeks. The redesign necessary to switch from 65nm to 55nm probably isn't worth the effort for just a few months. remember that amd didn't go down 1/2 step from r600 to rv670, they went down a full step, well 2 half steps anwyay so basically a full step. nvidia isn't going to shrink their die size until the refresh of gt200 next year, mark my words. amd will do the same, the only question is whether they go to 45nm or, um, 38nm or whatever half step they pick next.

65nm -> 55nm, being a half-node shrink, does not require any significant design change and is very easily done.

I highly doubt that "G92b" 55nm parts would reach EOL at GT200 launch. If GT200 is like a usual nVidia launch, high-end will come months before the lower-end parts, and G92b cards would have to fill the gap until then. In order to better compete against AMD's R700 midrange/low-end parts, nVidia would need the higher clockspeeds and lower cost that 55nm could provide.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
sorry about the t-shirt thing. I just wear polo's to work every day so I need lots of white t-shirts. My white amd shirts are good b/c they can be easily converted into white flags when intel/nvidia/etc whip up on them too badly. oops, did I say "them"? uh, I meant "us".

amd needs to roll out r700 asap to take advantage of this pathetic 9xxx crap. they can acquire some serious market share for a while if they play their cards right. or introduce their cards right, for that matter

but if they do that it will draw out GT200 which is "ready", remember?

i think both AMD and NVIDIA are conspiring together to rid themselves of all the old junk first ... THEN we will see r700/GT200

just remember it will be Launched on Day 91- immediately after your EVGA step up expired
:Q

how's is that for "conspiracy"?

I really do not believe that GT200 is just ready, waiting for whenever nVidia needs it...

Just because a chip tapes out, that does not mean it is anywhere close to being ready for release. New chips, especially a huge chip like GT200, will go through multiple revisions before being launch-ready. Look at R600... R600 taped out in the summer of 2006, and we didn't see product shipped until Q2 2007. Intel's Nehalem taped out in September of last year IIRC, and it won't be launched till H2 2008.

nVidia is going to have to compete against R700 with G92b, the 55nm shrink of G92, and I highly doubt that it will be able to match R700 performance. I certainly hope it won't.. if nVidia can match R700 with a 55nm G80, then I'll have lost all hope in AMD's graphics division.

If things go right for AMD, then R700 should be the performance leader for at least one quarter assuming R700 will be on track for late Q2 2008 and GT200 will be on schedule for late Q3-Q4 2008. It would not seem too unlikely that by that time, AMD would be launching a 45nm shrink of R700, considering TSMC's 45nm process should be ready by that time and AMD did a similar thing with R600, launching @ 80nm in Q2 and then shrinking to 55nm by Q4.

you need to *realize* that i am making fun of my own thread ... now
-the only thing i pointed out in that thread was that the "same sources" that said GT200 is now ready were the same sources that said it was taped out last year
--So, if you are going to believe 1 *rumor*, why not the other also .. that GT200 IS ready
... maybe so maybe not

that is why it is called a *rumor* .. and i believe in that thread it was presented as a possibly parallel situation to one in the PAST with 7800GTX/512M and x1850xt ... x1950xt launched shortly and 7900GTX both easily beat the overpriced, short-lived and impossible-to-find 7800GTX/512

.. and if things go WRONG for AMD they will launch r700 and NVIDIA will immediately counter by paper-launching their specs for soon-to-be-released GT 200 to spoil the AMD party and their profit margins

 

[superbooga]

Originally posted by: n7
I just don't understand what nVidia has been doing the last 13 months.

After the 2900 XT debacle, i basically gave up on AMD being competitive for a while, as i figured surely nV would stomp them silly with their next release.

A business looks to make money, and putting out a product to "stomp them silly" isn't worth the hundreds of millions to develop if it won't increase profits signficantly. G92 and G94 are good competitive products that make Nvidia lots of money, and there is no need to release anything better until RV770 is out.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Revised Tweaktown Review posted which now uses Driver Version 174.51 ...

http://www.tweaktown.com/artic...ware_174_51/index.html

We said we would test the GX2 again once we obtained some updated drivers, and that?s exactly what we?re about to do right now. From a hotmail account this morning, we received the 174.51 Vista drivers. The difference between these drivers and the last batch of 174 drivers we tried is that these ones actually installed!

Word is that the new drivers fix the profile issues that were present in the 173.67 release. While some people say SLI just wasn?t working in the first driver we tested, the issues seem more related to profiles as it was clear SLI was working some of the time.

 

[Sentry2]

http://www.tweaktown.com/artic..._and_tested/index.html


The only thing that really caught my attention about that article was how high the memory overclocked on the GX2(compared to a GTS 512).

Oh how I miss having Samsung chips instead of the big Q(short for crap).

I'm assuming these are 1.0ns Samsung chips still....judging from some recent pics....

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
that 55nm shrink sounds like pure fud. nvidia barely has time to do it before introducing gt200. maybe they'll keep 9xxx around as midrange parts and shrink them to 55nm.

The 55nm shrink makes sence if Nv will not be releasing the gt200 so soon. IMO, if the gt200 was so close to release, there would have been more leaked details about it, but at this point I haven't seen anything like that.

 

[ronnn]

Thought they were to be launched today?

 

[Tempered81]

IMO, gt200 = g92/94/96 + minor core improvements @1ghz, faster 6ns gddr4/5, 48 rops, 512bit memory interface, 1gb/2gb vmem & a new label.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: ronnn
Thought they were to be launched today?

gx2 is supposed to launch tomorrow. gt 200 is Q3/Q4.

jaredpace, what you just described would be a HUGE improvement over any current nvidia card or planned amd card (ie r700). they don't need 512 bit memory interface plus gddr4/5, however, especially with the rumored AA improvements from 174.51.

 

[qbfx]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
if you want to criticize somebody here it is best to be very circumspect. being funny and/or oblique is a bonus. please review my signature for ideas

back on topic, why are we even talking about this? We don't need rollo to throw out his "I know this stuff but can't tell you ..." crap to know that 9800gx2 is going to stomp all over 3870x2. They have to price that card based upon its performance against its competition. A $200 price premium for 25% performance increase is very typical in high end video card situations, just check out 8800gtx prices from 2007 vs 2900xt and 8800gts 640. Is it going to be worth $600 vs $400 for 3870x2? Not unless you NEED that extra performance RIGHT NOW. 4870x2 is 3 months out and gt200 is 6-8 months out. Anybody taking bets on how well those will do against 9800gx2 or anything out right now?

I'm sure that when r700 rolls around we'll see similar "leaks" that initially show crappy performance, and we'll probably even see rollo imply that the nvidia solution is somehow superior. Let's just sit tight for 2 days and hope that nvidia doesn't resort to tricky overclocking techniques again to boost their performance numbers.

Where did you see 25% increase over the 3870X2 ? maybe 25% decrease is more appropriate to say. Anyway, I suppose there's some driver issues for the moment so I don't take this review seriously so we'll have to wait for a better one with better drivers, just don't claim something that's not proven yet.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: qbfx


Where did you see 25% increase over the 3870X2 ? maybe 25% decrease is more appropriate to say. Anyway, I suppose there's some driver issues for the moment so I don't take this review seriously so we'll have to wait for a better one with better drivers, just don't claim something that's not proven yet.

Heh- I can't believe you posted this the morning they went on sale.

If 9800GX2s are on average 25% below 3870X2s, I'll buy you one.

 

[qbfx]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: qbfx


Where did you see 25% increase over the 3870X2 ? maybe 25% decrease is more appropriate to say. Anyway, I suppose there's some driver issues for the moment so I don't take this review seriously so we'll have to wait for a better one with better drivers, just don't claim something that's not proven yet.

Heh- I can't believe you posted this the morning they went on sale.

If 9800GX2s are on average 25% below 3870X2s, I'll buy you one.

This is the only review of the GX2 I've seen so far and for the moment what I said seems to be true, the GX2 is crap, even if it is its launch day. Oh, and you can read the second sentence of my previous post.

P.S. I'd prefer if you bought me a Quadro FX instead of a.. umm poop uhh.. GX2 - I don't game.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: qbfx

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: qbfx


Where did you see 25% increase over the 3870X2 ? maybe 25% decrease is more appropriate to say. Anyway, I suppose there's some driver issues for the moment so I don't take this review seriously so we'll have to wait for a better one with better drivers, just don't claim something that's not proven yet.

Heh- I can't believe you posted this the morning they went on sale.

If 9800GX2s are on average 25% below 3870X2s, I'll buy you one.

This is the only review of the GX2 I've seen so far and for the moment what I said seems to be true, the GX2 is crap, even if it is its launch day. Oh, and you can read the second sentence of my previous post.

P.S. I'd prefer if you bought me a Quadro FX instead of a.. umm poop uhh.. GX2 - I don't game.

If the GX2 is crap what does it make the 3870x2?

http://images.anandtech.com/gr...031808044035/16677.png

If you dont game, why are you in this thread about a gaming card?

 

[qbfx]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: qbfx

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: qbfx


Where did you see 25% increase over the 3870X2 ? Maybe 25% decrease is more appropriate to say. Anyway, I suppose there's some driver issues for the moment so I don't take this review seriously so we'll have to wait for a better one with better drivers, just don't claim something that's not proven yet.

Heh- I can't believe you posted this the morning they went on sale.

If 9800GX2s are on average 25% below 3870X2s, I'll buy you one.

This is the ONLY review of the GX2 I've seen so far and FOR THE MOMENT what I said seems to be true, the GX2 is crap, even if it is its launch day. Oh, and you can read the second sentence of my previous post.

P.S. I'd prefer if you bought me a Quadro FX instead of a.. umm poop uhh.. GX2 - I don't game.

If the GX2 is crap what does it make the 3870x2?

http://images.anandtech.com/gr...031808044035/16677.png

There, I hope that's better. Do you see it or should I spell what it reads ?!

If you dont game, why are you in this thread about a gaming card?

Wow man, who are you to ask me why I'm in this thread ?! A moderator ? Have I violated some rule or something ? If so, I apologize, mister.. Here's why I'm here, one of these is the right answer:

a) I'm interested in all kinds of technology no matter what I do in my free time
b) I hope to meet your mother here
c) I hit the wrong button on my keyboard, something happened and I ended up here with this *embarrassing* post on my nickname

You never know .. One thing is for sure - you're right in that other thread, about the club of whiners against the new expensive cards, but, there is also the fanboy club that starts whining every time someone says something *bad* about their favorite team and you and rollo seem to be the resident DJs. Cheers, mister.

(Go greens, go!)

 

[trajan2050]

Tweaktown review was bs. Read Anandtech!

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: qbfx

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: qbfx

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: qbfx


Where did you see 25% increase over the 3870X2 ? Maybe 25% decrease is more appropriate to say. Anyway, I suppose there's some driver issues for the moment so I don't take this review seriously so we'll have to wait for a better one with better drivers, just don't claim something that's not proven yet.

Heh- I can't believe you posted this the morning they went on sale.

If 9800GX2s are on average 25% below 3870X2s, I'll buy you one.

This is the ONLY review of the GX2 I've seen so far and FOR THE MOMENT what I said seems to be true, the GX2 is crap, even if it is its launch day. Oh, and you can read the second sentence of my previous post.

P.S. I'd prefer if you bought me a Quadro FX instead of a.. umm poop uhh.. GX2 - I don't game.

If the GX2 is crap what does it make the 3870x2?

http://images.anandtech.com/gr...031808044035/16677.png

There, I hope that's better. Do you see it or should I spell what it reads ?!

If you dont game, why are you in this thread about a gaming card?

Wow man, who are you to ask me why I'm in this thread ?! A moderator ? Have I violated some rule or something ? If so, I apologize, mister.. Here's why I'm here, one of these is the right answer:

a) I'm interested in all kinds of technology no matter what I do in my free time
b) I hope to meet your mother here
c) I hit the wrong button on my keyboard, something happened and I ended up here with this *embarrassing* post on my nickname

You never know .. One thing is for sure - you're right in that other thread, about the club of whiners against the new expensive cards, but, there is also the fanboy club that starts whining every time someone says something *bad* about their favorite team and you and rollo seem to be the resident DJs. Cheers, mister.

(Go greens, go!)

lmao, and I am sure you have seen me in here on a daily basis cheering as well.

 

[pcslookout]

Looks like I rather get a second Geforce 8800 GTX instead if you have one already and a sli motherboard.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/512/12/

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: trajan2050
Tweaktown review was bs. Read Anandtech!

QFT

 

[scottb75]

More places with reviews for those who are interested.

http://www.tomshardware.com/20...force_9800_gx2_review/
http://www.hothardware.com/Art..._and_GeForce_9800_GX2/
http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/512/
http://www.firingsquad.com/har...2_performance_preview/
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/articl...50aHVzaWFzdA==
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=535&type=expert
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/679/1/