Twitter mob goes after girl for cultural appropriation over prom dress

[realibrad]

Did you see any Manchurian complain about her wearing a Qipao? Cuz that is where it came from, Manchuria.

Again, that is irrelevant. It meets the qualification of the term. A person from that culture need not personally be offended.

Do you think I am trying to justify the position that what this girl did was wrong?

 

[Zorba]

So......

They are probably wrong.

The people in the OP are not social justice warriors. They're assholes posting from the safety of anonymity.
SJW's go out on marches and sign petitions. Usually they're about bullshit but still, at least those people actually try to do something real.

SJW definitely covers assholes on social media. Generally they are worst about vigilantism. If this girl was employed, I am sure they would be calling for her to be fired.

 

[UberNeuman]

lol. The thread for the victimized white boys.

 

[Zorba]

I dunno. I don't think people who are non-native american should be wearing native american headdresses. I don't think non-black people should say the N word. I don't thinks its ok to wear a red dot on your head as fashion. And so on and so on. I'm not going to say its not within your right but in my opinion these sorts of things are not in good taste and really violate basic societal norms about respecting other cultures for relatively little gain.

I would agree that some things are definitely on the BS side. The same would be true if East Asians started wearing a crucifix or rosary beads as a fashion statement, but there is really no stopping them.

Now, wasn't the N-word reverse appropriation, where Blacks intentionally started using it to remove its power from white people? (I personally feel it has no place, period)

 

[Zorba]

Do we both agree that if she showed up dressed like pocahontas its a bit of a problem?

Would you think it would be a problem if she were Native American? Is the problem that is a terrible representation of native culture, or that a white girl would be wearing it? I dated many girls that were card carrying Native Americans (and a lot of my cousins are too), that would all look white in a picture on Twitter.

 

[Fenixgoon]

404 appropriation not found.

the negative connotation of "cultural appropriation" means it is adopting another culture's traditions in an insulting or demeaning context. this gal is clearly not doing that. one of my HS classmates (long time ago) wore something akin to a more traditional chinese outfit (to our graduation dinner, not the actual ceremony). she looked amazing in it, and was certainly not doing anything to demean traditional chinese culture.

it's just like the little girl who enjoyed japanese tea traditions. it's about context, not necessarily about who wore/did/liked what.

 

[Zorba]

If you feel like it's a good term then SJW away! And yes, it's absolutely fine to use pejorative terms about extremist groups as that's half the fun. Also, the people who use the term SJW are overwhelmingly conservative.

Most people that use the term gun nutters are liberals, but that doesn't make it an invalid term. I personally only ever use it about social media vigilantism over ridiculous things because I find it repugnant.

This is a lot of weird, poorly educated, nonsensical ranting.

I agree with you on this. Maybe I do need to find a new pejorative so I don't get grouped in with people like that.

 

[Maxima1]

I agree with you on this. Maybe I do need to find a new pejorative so I don't get grouped in with people like that.

Why do you agree with him? I can defend each one.

Here's some examples of the loony SJW crowd.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19015...minorities-to-be-racist-against-white-people/

SEARCH FOR TRUTH Google promotes controversial claim it’s NOT possible for ethnic minorities to be racist against white people

(put it in google, and there is a lot of hits because many millennials think like this)

The following on gender wage gap is what a lot think.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...omen-get-only-80-percent-pay-men-do-same-job/

Our ruling

In Smith’s initial tweet, she wrote, "On average, American women only earn 80 cents for every dollar a man earns for doing the same job."

The official federal data shows that women earn 80 percent of what men earn, but that’s a collective average for all jobs, not a comparison of men and women holding identical jobs. For men and women holding the same job, there’s still a gap, but it’s substantially smaller.

Our policy is to acknowledge and applaud after-the-fact corrections by speakers we check, but we still put the original comment to the Truth-O-Meter. So Smith’s initial remark rates Mostly False.

 

[Zorba]

Why do you agree with him? I can defend each one.

Here's some examples of the loony SJW crowd.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19015...minorities-to-be-racist-against-white-people/

SEARCH FOR TRUTH Google promotes controversial claim it’s NOT possible for ethnic minorities to be racist against white people

(put it in google, and there is a lot of hits because many millennials think like this)

The following on gender wage gap is what a lot think.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...omen-get-only-80-percent-pay-men-do-same-job/

Our ruling

In Smith’s initial tweet, she wrote, "On average, American women only earn 80 cents for every dollar a man earns for doing the same job."

The official federal data shows that women earn 80 percent of what men earn, but that’s a collective average for all jobs, not a comparison of men and women holding identical jobs. For men and women holding the same job, there’s still a gap, but it’s substantially smaller.

Our policy is to acknowledge and applaud after-the-fact corrections by speakers we check, but we still put the original comment to the Truth-O-Meter. So Smith’s initial remark rates Mostly False.

Your presentation is very poor for one. I call them SJWs because they try to actively ruin people's lives over some of the beliefs you outlined. I think you can have a reasonable debate about culture appropriation, but to attack a high school girl over a dress is beyond the pale. But none of the things you posted is truly black and white.

Even the wage gap, although when compared for identical jobs the gap largely disappears, when comparing jobs with similar duties/responsibilities that have large gender gaps, the male dominated field almost always gets paid higher than the female dominated field. This could lead to a debate about whether or not teachers are paid poorly and police are not is due to sexism. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-pay-gap-is-way-too-entrenched-to-be-solved-by-women-alone/

 

[pmv]

So is America not supposed to be a melting pot any more? We want diversity, but can't share cultures? We are happy when white kids buy up rap music, black comedy, diverse Disney movies, but if those white kids use any symbols from those things it is racist "appropriation."

Of course their used to be many subcultures of white in the US but no one complains about cultural appropriation on St. Patrick's Day.

I understand complaints about appropriation if it a systematic objective of the government, but cultures mixed together should start to blend and become one. Promoting isolated sub cultures is a good way of promoting racism, IMHO.

I have to say I didn't realise how preposterously overblown this particular row had become - it's now on the 'mainstream media' in the UK. That is kind of absurd, I agree. I thought we were talking a handful of twitter posts. I really don't think those at the centre of this row deserve that level of harrasment/attention. But Twitter is just a home of the ridiculous.

But your point just misses the point I was making - is it not possible to use a bit of empathy and consider how it feels for someone in a minority to have those who appear to be part of the same group who once abused and disparaged them, then appear to grab for themselves parts of their culture, the very things that members of that group once bullied and attacked that minority for? I don't find it hard to understand where the feeling of annoyance or anger might come from. It's _not_ the same as Irish Americans, who became 'white' in America a long time ago (and who have happily promoted a wider participation in St Patrick's day themselves).

 

[pmv]

Then ignore it right? There is a valid enough topic even if you believe its concern trolling. If you want to talk about the topic, the I can understand. What I don't get is this policing of others.

He's entitled to post questionable threads, and others are entitled to point out the probable hidden-agenda. Who is policing here?

(I agree that it's perfectly possible to discuss the topic while ignoring whatever the OP's agenda is, but the nature of the OP's motivations is just as valid a topic)

 

[pmv]

Why do you agree with him? I can defend each one.

Here's some examples of the loony SJW crowd.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19015...minorities-to-be-racist-against-white-people/

SEARCH FOR TRUTH Google promotes controversial claim it’s NOT possible for ethnic minorities to be racist against white people

(put it in google, and there is a lot of hits because many millennials think like this)

Why blame Millennials? Its a perfectly defensible point that's been around for many decades. I think it's more-or-less true, though it's mainly just semantics about the exact meaning of the word 'racist'. Seems rather obvious that it isn't a symmetrical situation. If you are saying that Millennials have accepted the idea more widely than older people (which I actually strongly doubt) then that's another reason to like Millennials, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[sdifox]

Again, that is irrelevant. It meets the qualification of the term. A person from that culture need not personally be offended.

Do you think I am trying to justify the position that what this girl did was wrong?

You are arguing what she did is cultural appropriation, ergo you agree with the busybody attacking her on Twitter.


Don't want white people to wear your heritage? Don't sell it to white people

 

[pmv]

You are arguing what she did is cultural appropriation, ergo you agree with the busybody attacking her on Twitter.

One can agree that it's an example of cultural appropriation and still think it's stupid and counter-productive to form an angry internet hate-mob over it. Trouble is it seems that's how it always works out on social media. Some sort of law of behaviour of large groups with only superficial connections.

 

[sdifox]

One can agree that it's an example of cultural appropriation and still think it's stupid and counter-productive to form an angry internet hate-mob over it. Trouble is it seems that's how it always works out on social media. Some sort of law of behaviour of large groups with only superficial connections.

She probably bought it at the local mall. Cultural appropriation not found.
Don't want white people to wear your culture? Don't sell it to white people.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Apparently too many people have too much time on their hands to generate false rage over her choice of fabric. To that I say...

 

[Maxima1]

Your presentation is very poor for one. I call them SJWs because they try to actively ruin people's lives over some of the beliefs you outlined.

This is how it's commonly used.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/social_justice_warrior

I think you can have a reasonable debate about culture appropriation, but to attack a high school girl over a dress is beyond the pale. But none of the things you posted is truly black and white.

They were specific. I suppose I could have said something on cultural appropriation, but a lot of the time this is simply QQ over things like a white person with dreads.

when comparing jobs with similar duties/responsibilities that have large gender gaps, the male dominated field almost always gets paid higher than the female dominated field.

The largest factor in the wage gap is the dearth of women in specific jobs and industries. If they went into STEM and some blue-collar work, that ~10% would close up and then some.

This could lead to a debate about whether or not teachers are paid poorly and police are not is due to sexism.

What does that have to do with sexism? The public safety worker compensation has to do with the "hero" thing. Even then, they're not that much higher than teachers. They may get perks like overtime and earlier retirement, but teachers work less hours/days than typical.

Why blame Millennials? Its a perfectly defensible point that's been around for many decades. I think it's more-or-less true, though it's mainly just semantics about the exact meaning of the word 'racist'.Seems rather obvious that it isn't a symmetrical situation.

I singled out my generation because they are the group most sensitive to these things. I don’t believe it’s defensible. So elite whites trickle down their power? What happens when it's roughly equal?

 

[purbeast0]

Irrelevant. The style comes from a culture that is considered to be of lesser power than the culture that the person wearing comes from. Because of that, the person is taking from a culture and thus it becomes appropriation.

You brought up definitions, so here you go.

appropriation - he action of taking something for one's own use, typically without the owner's permission.

The girl took the dress that comes from another culture without permission from the culture. You can never get permission from a culture, so any use is appropriation. What is being appropriated is something from a culture, thus the claim of cultural appropriation.

This fits with the modern usage, even if the term is founded on dumb ideas.

QFS.

(quoted for stupidity)

 

[Ventanni]

"Wheel of morality, turn turn turn. Tell us a lesson that we should learn."

Lesson #1 - People get offended over stupid stuff.

Lesson #2 - Posting your stuff to social media invites you to be criticized by people who are offended over stupid stuff.

 

[HomerJS]

Evangelicals had a cow claiming religious appropriation when Madonna released video Like A Prayer. In fact evangelicals often complain when people they consider "unsavory characters" use religious symbols.

Appropriation can be in the eye of the beholder

 

[realibrad]

He's entitled to post questionable threads, and others are entitled to point out the probable hidden-agenda. Who is policing here?

(I agree that it's perfectly possible to discuss the topic while ignoring whatever the OP's agenda is, but the nature of the OP's motivations is just as valid a topic)

I am being accused of policing by asking what is the goal of the people that get upset at the OP. Its strange to me that I could be accused of policing when I did not say they should stop.

 

[realibrad]

You are arguing what she did is cultural appropriation, ergo you agree with the busybody attacking her on Twitter.


Don't want white people to wear your heritage? Don't sell it to white people

Ah, so you are an idiot. No, saying something fits the term does not inherently mean I agree with the negative implications that others perceive. My stance on the harm/benefit is irrelevant in the context of it fitting the definition. As is stands, this fits the definition of cultural appropriation.

----> Definition "Cultural appropriation is a concept in sociology dealing with the adoption of the elements of a minority culture by members of the dominant culture." Thus, the dominant culture is not the culture that the dress is associated with.

This sums this up. If you cannot understand how someone can argue that its both cultural appropriation and that cultural appropriation in my view is not bad and thus I'm not attacking her, then any further discussion will be fruitless.

 

[realibrad]

One can agree that it's an example of cultural appropriation and still think it's stupid and counter-productive to form an angry internet hate-mob over it. Trouble is it seems that's how it always works out on social media. Some sort of law of behaviour of large groups with only superficial connections.

Warning, you are about to get caught in the idiot loop. Because this both fits with the definition, and, is a stupid idea, any acceptance that the situation fits the definition is actually tacit support of all the implications.

 

[realibrad]

QFS.

(quoted for stupidity)

"Cultural appropriation is a concept in sociology dealing with the adoption of the elements of a minority culture by members of the dominant culture."

It fits the definition. Its stupid to believe this is a negative as cultural mixing enriches everyone, but it does not change that it fits the definition. I am on the side that wearing anything from another culture is fine. Don't you feel silly now?

 

[purbeast0]

"Cultural appropriation is a concept in sociology dealing with the adoption of the elements of a minority culture by members of the dominant culture."

It fits the definition. Its stupid to believe this is a negative as cultural mixing enriches everyone, but it does not change that it fits the definition. I am on the side that wearing anything from another culture is fine. Don't you feel silly now?

I don't feel silly at all. The whole thing is stupid and your definition is stupid.

By your definition had it been a black girl wearing this dress, it wouldn't be cultural appropriation, since you said white > asian > black.

That's extremely stupid and if you don't see how stupid that is, you're stupid too.