Twitter mob goes after girl for cultural appropriation over prom dress

[Puffnstuff]

Perhaps the GOP prefers dresses like this one.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Now she's being called a racist. Just how low can an IQ go before it affects one's ability to type?

 

[Zorba]

I have to say I didn't realise how preposterously overblown this particular row had become - it's now on the 'mainstream media' in the UK. That is kind of absurd, I agree. I thought we were talking a handful of twitter posts. I really don't think those at the centre of this row deserve that level of harrasment/attention. But Twitter is just a home of the ridiculous.

But your point just misses the point I was making - is it not possible to use a bit of empathy and consider how it feels for someone in a minority to have those who appear to be part of the same group who once abused and disparaged them, then appear to grab for themselves parts of their culture, the very things that members of that group once bullied and attacked that minority for? I don't find it hard to understand where the feeling of annoyance or anger might come from. It's _not_ the same as Irish Americans, who became 'white' in America a long time ago (and who have happily promoted a wider participation in St Patrick's day themselves).

I understand the showing of empathy towards abused groups, but I don't really see how that applies here. First, treating all of whites as one homogeneous block is very disingenuous and dangerous, this is a very common tool of racists. If you can show how this girl has personally abused Chinese or East Asians, fine, but the nondescript "Some white person made fun of me before, therefore no white people can have anything I like" doesn't seem right. Second, I think you would have to show a history of widespread bullying about that specific type of fashion in the somewhat recent past. I highly doubt that exists. Third, when was the last time there was widespread racism towards Asians and Asian culture in the US? They are in a minority so I know they get some, but all the statistics show that they are highly successful as a block, much different than other races in the US that have had much more systemic racism against them.

Regardless of all that, American is supposed to be a melting pot, the reason there is no more "Irish-Americans" is because they shared their culture with the US and took on the US culture for themselves. At least since the 90s a large amount of American Teenagers have grown an interest in Japanese and Korean cultures, I know multiple people that learned Japanese in high school. Is that cultural appropriation? Or is that the blending of cultures that will help make us a unified country with our own unique culture, that like our language, is a blend of many others?

 

[Zorba]

Evangelicals had a cow claiming religious appropriation when Madonna released video Like A Prayer. In fact evangelicals often complain when people they consider "unsavory characters" use religious symbols.

Appropriation can be in the eye of the beholder

Evangelicals are also the biggest group of hypocrite whiners in the country.

 

[realibrad]

I don't feel silly at all. The whole thing is stupid and your definition is stupid.

By your definition had it been a black girl wearing this dress, it wouldn't be cultural appropriation, since you said white > asian > black.

That's extremely stupid and if you don't see how stupid that is, you're stupid too.

My definition? You mean the definition? I'm assuming you too do not realize that I think this is all stupid right? It fits a definition of something that is inherently stupid. Still does not change that it fits the definition.

So, what about it fitting with the definition makes what I said stupid?

 

[purbeast0]

My definition? You mean the definition? I'm assuming you too do not realize that I think this is all stupid right? It fits a definition of something that is inherently stupid. Still does not change that it fits the definition.

So, what about it fitting with the definition makes what I said stupid?

Where did I say it didn't fit the definition? It's stupid regardless.

You also never answered my question - if it was a black chick wearing the dress, it wouldn't be cultural appropriation, since asians > black (according to what you posted)

 

[realibrad]

Where did I say it didn't fit the definition? It's stupid regardless.

You also never answered my question - if it was a black chick wearing the dress, it wouldn't be cultural appropriation, since asians > black (according to what you posted)

From my understanding it would not be.

You originally quoted what I said and labeled it stupid. You then clarified your position when you said MY definition was stupid. Its like me saying that someone else said X, and you then calling me stupid because I told you what the person said. I in no way agreed with what the term is implying. The fact that you are sticking to your question exemplifies that you believe I am in some way agreeing with the implications of this stupid term.

Regardless, you got confused and thought I was supporting this, quoted me to signal to everyone, and then doubled down on your confusion.

 

[purbeast0]

From my understanding it would not be.

You originally quoted what I said and labeled it stupid. You then clarified your position when you said MY definition was stupid. Its like me saying that someone else said X, and you then calling me stupid because I told you what the person said. I in no way agreed with what the term is implying. The fact that you are sticking to your question exemplifies that you believe I am in some way agreeing with the implications of this stupid term.

Regardless, you got confused and thought I was supporting this, quoted me to signal to everyone, and then doubled down on your confusion.

What you typed is stupid. I don't care where it came from or if it first "the definition" or whatever, it's stupid, as are most of your comments in this thread.

 

[Jaskalas]

And how exactly is a high school girl supposed to get permission from an entire culture?

You don't. It's amazing to witness some Democrats supporting segregation under the guise of stopping appropriation. It's like they dug up former Alabama Governor George Corley Wallace Jr. and asked him for directions. Be it white schools for white kids, or Asian dresses for Asian women. The antithesis of our progressive melting pot is personified by such disregard for a shared human experience.

 

[realibrad]

You don't. It's amazing to witness some Democrats supporting segregation under the guise of stopping appropriation. It's like they dug up former Alabama Governor George Corley Wallace Jr. and asked him for directions. Be it white schools for white kids, or Asian dresses for Asian women. The antithesis of our progressive melting pot is personified by such disregard for a shared human experience.

Its sad to see that people are starting up segregation again. Needing minority spaces is the opposite of what was fought for during the Civil Rights era. They did not bus minority kids to Black schools, they forced white schools to teach all people. I'm usually against the state forcing things, but, forced integration sure seemed like a good thing.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Evangelicals had a cow claiming religious appropriation when Madonna released video Like A Prayer. In fact evangelicals often complain when people they consider "unsavory characters" use religious symbols.

Appropriation can be in the eye of the beholder

So then we should just drop the whole ridiculous notion of appropriation.

 

[realibrad]

So then we should just drop the whole ridiculous notion of appropriation.

Yep. Culture is not owned, its lived and experienced. Anyone can do what they please with it.

 

[realibrad]

Did you see any Manchurian complain about her wearing a Qipao? Cuz that is where it came from, Manchuria.

https://twitter.com/jere_bare/status/989981023076208640

My culture is NOT your goddamn prom dress.

The qipao was originally a loose dress/garment without shape, made for Chinese women to clean the house and do other domestic chores with.

It was then altered and embroidered as a beautiful form-fitting outfit to wear publically, which Chinese women were not allowed to do at during the times of extreme patriarchal oppression.

In a time where Asian women were silenced they were able to create, not only a piece of art but a symbol of activism. This piece of clothing embraced femininity, confidence, and gender equality through its beautiful, eye-catching appearance.

It even broke the division of financial classes! It could be made with high-quality materials that only the upper class could afford such as special silks and linens, but a dress just as beautiful could have been made with just cotton and low-quality linen.

Femme factory workers wore this dress!!! And the style was then spread throughout Asian as a beautiful garment and sign of women's liberation.

In short: I'm proud of my culture, including the extreme barriers marginalized people within that culture have had to overcome those obstacles. For it to simply be subject to American consumerism and cater to a white audience, is parallel to colonial ideology.

And, here is another person explaining why this girl offended her.

just because it’s okay to a few chinese people doesn’t mean it’s okay to all of us? our traditional dress isn’t meant to be a fashion statement or make you appear more “exotic”. there’s a long history behind the dress and white people are not a part of it.

I grew up in a chinese ward where many couples were interracial and during Chinese New Year you would always see white spouses wearing our silk and it didn’t bother us but why? because of the amount of respect they had for our culture & they wore it traditionally, not casually.

Wearing it on the street or for instance, to prom, when it’s not your culture is bastardizing our culture and it’s not at all the same as cultural appreciation. You’re just trying to make ignorance appear cute. Which it is not.

In short, yes, people of the culture were offended. Most probably not, and I think its stupid to be offended, but it does not change that people were.

 

[sdifox]

https://twitter.com/jere_bare/status/989981023076208640



And, here is another person explaining why this girl offended her.



In short, yes, people of the culture were offended. Most probably not, and I think its stupid to be offended, but it does not change that people were.

And that person you quoted was wrong.
Qipao means Manchurian Garment. It was imported from Manchuria when Qing dynasty was established through invasion. Qing then mandated everyone had to switch to Manchurian garment. This was not popular and was soon abandoned. Only government officials had to wear them. Han people resented the invaders thus continued to wear their own cloth.
I learned this in history class in Taiwan.

Woman's liberation didn't hit Asia til much later so much of what that dude Lam was saying was just xenophobic diatribe. In fact, his ancestors probably resented Qing rule and by extension Manchurian Garb.

 

[realibrad]

And that person you quoted was wrong.
Qipao means Manchurian Garment. It was imported from Manchuria when Qing dynasty was established through invasion. Qing then mandated everyone had to switch to Manchurian garment. This was not popular and was soon abandoned. Only government officials had to wear them. Han people resented the invaders thus continued to wear their own cloth.
I learned this in history class in Taiwan.

Woman's liberation didn't hit Asia til much later so much of what that dude Lam was saying was just xenophobic diatribe. In fact, his ancestors probably resented Qing rule and by extension Manchurian Garb.

I never tried to make the argument that people had something legitimate to be upset over. What I am saying is that the definition fits the situation, but, the inherent implication that this is wrong is flawed. If people want to use traditional garb for casual or fun things that is fine and should not be offensive.

But, you wanted to know if anyone was offended and they clearly are. We might agree that they are wrong to be, but it does not change that they are. So, this story looks to be something worth discussing.

 

[sdifox]

I never tried to make the argument that people had something legitimate to be upset over. What I am saying is that the definition fits the situation, but, the inherent implication that this is wrong is flawed. If people want to use traditional garb for casual or fun things that is fine and should not be offensive.

But, you wanted to know if anyone was offended and they clearly are. We might agree that they are wrong to be, but it does not change that they are. So, this story looks to be something worth discussing.

And I am saying outrage with no regards to historical facts is what you call stupidity.

 

[hal2kilo]

F'ing ties should be banned as a French cultural appropriation. Everything gets appropriated in some form or fashion. Is Snowflakitis a disease?

 

[realibrad]

And I am saying outrage with no regards to historical facts is what you call stupidity.

Yep. This is something I have debated many times with young college SJWs. The argument will be as follows.

The Manchu were a minority group and the dress originates from that group. In the past (possibly current) the West which is white oppressed these people. Now, something that is part of the minority culture that is not in a power of position has people using their culture as a flippant casual fun. A white girl that was born into a position of power doing this is offensive because she does not consider all of the implications and history that the garment contains and just uses it for her own enjoyment.

Now, you can point out that the modern form of the garment is very much connected to women's liberation and as such could be seen as a tacit support, but, because she is white that will be generally dismissed. So, the final stance will be that the SJW will find it offensive and that is "just my opinion".

There is an endless loop of how they will justify their offense. They come from a place that anything that a White person does that is outside of white culture is offensive.

 

[realibrad]

F'ing ties should be banned as a French cultural appropriation. Everything gets appropriated in some form or fashion. Is Snowflakitis a disease?

No, because French people are in a position of power. Its only bad if/when the culture being appropriated by a person that is in the dominate position.

https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/06/cultural-appropriation-wrong/

That gives a pretty clear position of the people that support this.

 

[realibrad]

 

[WHAMPOM]

That young man did very well for himself

https://nextshark.com/non-asian-wom...assive-cultural-appropriation-debate-twitter/


Here’s her Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/daumkeziah/status/988115815068139520

Asian cultures are NOT an aesthetic you can just don for an evening. Your intentions are irrelevant, your poor judgment is cultural appropriation and contributes to the fetishization of Asian women and commercialization of our culture for white gain. Check your privilege.
12:42 PM · Apr 29, 2018

My culture is NOT your goddamn prom dress.


People will find anything to become "offended" about. I highly doubt the sincerity of those offended either sadly, it seems mostly about wanting to be part of some sort of social movement (real or imaginary).

Dress up is dress up and that is what you do at the prom. What no negs for the guy dressed up in the Wall Street aesthetic of suit and tie? Gotta shoot down on anyone wearing green on ST. Patrick's Day too? Well I applaud cultural appropriation, as long as it does not get too silly, this is the melting pot nation after all.

 

[interchange]

It's a good social value to honor and respect the cultural traditions of others as belonging to them.

It's a good social value to enhance our society by incorporation of valued aspects from other cultures.

Both statements are true. Neither is absolutely true. There is no objective way to classify how to balance these values for any given situation. In fact, the basic guidance comes from collective subjective reaction that, when investigated, rests on no consistent fundamental principles.

People are people. We are complicated. Often we have moral ideals that conflict with each other. Ethics is not the search for the right or wrong thing. It involves eliciting and weighing moral principles which conflict with each other and making conscientious decisions with that information.

 

[hal2kilo]

No, because French people are in a position of power. Its only bad if/when the culture being appropriated by a person that is in the dominate position.

https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/06/cultural-appropriation-wrong/

That gives a pretty clear position of the people that support this.

So people just make shit up to claim whatever victimhood they can come up with. I don't get any of this shit anymore. I guess I'm just getting old and in the way. EDIT: just slightly breezed my way through the article. I'm such a monster.

 

[realibrad]

So people just make shit up to claim whatever victimhood they can come up with. I don't get any of this shit anymore. I guess I'm just getting old and in the way.

Yes, they make it up, yes you are getting old, no you are not getting in the way on this. It really is the victimhood olympics. Young people have good ideas and bad ideas. Some should be promoted, some should be condemned.

 

[pcgeek11]

So is cultural appropriation something one should be offended over? It seems to keep creeping back up as an issue, is it a legitimate one in yalls opinion?

No, Its all about who can be butt hurt the most these days.