Two More Vessels Attacked in Gulf of Oman

[pauldun170]

You just know that they probably considered running the video in reverse and then claiming they have video of Iranians planting the mine.
Unfortunately, most of the people with the skills to properly do that were let go because they didn't sign the loyalty document.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Maybe...But I don't believe Trump is a warmonger at heart.

I agree with much of what you said. I don't think he is a warmonger either, but I don't think he will think bombing or a missile attack is a war. He will see it as a 'contained response' or some such. As I said I don't think he will dedicate troops to it.

At the same time it is not easy to predict what Trump will do. He sometimes go off on random tangents, and I don't believe for a second that things he said even yesterday can predict what he will do today. He does not believe in any form of consistence, and in fact seems to think that it is an advantage to be unpredictable. Based on that I think it is possible he will do something we don't expect. Maybe he will just nuke Iran. Who knows with him?

 

[blankslate]

hmmmm... "history doesn't repeat but it definitely rhymes"

to paraphrase the person who said that whose name escapes me at the moment....

Clemens?


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[blankslate]

What other nation would benefit from this?
Lets remind ourselves that Norway is a member of NATO.
Who excel at subs?

Norway does have excellently engineered Diesel/Electric Submarines.
A dozen plus years ago, I read an article in a military oriented magazine that detailed how the U.S. Navy did use their navy as the adversary force to train their sonar techs in detecting quiet Diesel/electric Subs.

I wouldn't be surprised if they repeated that particular training exercise over the years




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[Jhhnn]

So, uhh, why were there so many people on the Iranian boat? Probably because they'd just been rescued. Why is the image so grainy & indistinct? Probably because it was rendered that way on purpose.

It's what's known as sleazy propaganda, people.

 

[dainthomas]

One of the mines didn't detonate, and will provide intel on the culprits?

How marvelously convenient.

You can tell Bolton watches Designated Survivor.

 

[m8d]

The Japanese contradicts U.S. account.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...n95rksvMIpUqz5TGqZlbH8&utm_term=.9540162fcb91

 

[kage69]

Norway does have excellently engineered Diesel/Electric Submarines.
A dozen plus years ago, I read an article in a military oriented magazine that detailed how the U.S. Navy did use their navy as the adversary force to train their sonar techs in detecting quiet Diesel/electric Subs.

I wouldn't be surprised if they repeated that particular training exercise over the years




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Close, Sweden actually. I believe you are referring to the 2005 training the Ronald Reagan did with a Gotland class sub, which ran several attacks and was never detected.

 

[Cr0nJ0b]

Do mines "jump" out of the seat and attache 20ft above the waterline as the photo suggests? sort of like a bouncing betty mine? would it be more plausible that this is 1) a surface to surface cruise missile, which I think Iran has, or 2) some cleaver drone or 3) alien frag mine like I saw in the documentary called "battleship",

Regardless, I agree that this will be one more provocation that will push us into our continuous war.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Do mines "jump" out of the seat and attache 20ft above the waterline as the photo suggests? sort of like a bouncing betty mine? would it be more plausible that this is 1) a surface to surface cruise missile, which I think Iran has, or 2) some cleaver drone or 3) alien frag mine like I saw in the documentary called "battleship",

Regardless, I agree that this will be one more provocation that will push us into our continuous war.

Looks like the ship was intentionally listed to bring the hole out of the water. You'll notice both are level with each other.

 

[Jhhnn]

Do mines "jump" out of the seat and attache 20ft above the waterline as the photo suggests? sort of like a bouncing betty mine? would it be more plausible that this is 1) a surface to surface cruise missile, which I think Iran has, or 2) some cleaver drone or 3) alien frag mine like I saw in the documentary called "battleship",

Regardless, I agree that this will be one more provocation that will push us into our continuous war.

Provocation by whom? Iran? They're the least likely perpetrator from a purely rational point of view. The only thing in it for them is grief.

 

[blankslate]

Close, Sweden actually. I believe you are referring to the 2005 training the Ronald Reagan did with a Gotland class sub, which ran several attacks and was never detected.

Yeah I was in error it was a while since I read the article. Makes me wonder if a Diesel Sub fired a some sort of missile that traveled through the air from a relatively far distance and that accounts for what the crew of the Japanese Tanker as per the story mentioned in post #132 in this thread.

Easy enough for one to sneak around Gulfs relatively close to land.


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[ElFenix]

I wouldn't get too wrapped up about the where the holes appear to be. The ship has a definite list on it that was put there on purpose to get the holes as far above the waterline as possible.

Seems pretty sloppy for a "nation-state" attack.

i don't necessarily know what i'm taking about, but it appears the waterline is right at the water, so it's not listing.

 

[kage69]

Yeah I was in error it was a while since I read the article. Makes me wonder if a Diesel Sub fired a some sort of missile that traveled through the air from a relatively far distance and that accounts for what the crew of the Japanese Tanker as per the story mentioned in post #132 in this thread.

Easy enough for one to sneak around Gulfs relatively close to land.


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While Iran does have a handful of mini subs, they're all crap. Not sure those Iranian coffins can even fire cruise missiles. Risky place for subs, too shallow. Depth is to subs what altitude is to aircraft - safety. I can't think of a single type of missile that would do that little damage to an unarmored hull either. A limpet is non kinetic and most varieties are only packing a few pounds of TNT. Something moving at ~600mph and delivering 400+lbs of PETN or similar would have left a much larger impression on the ship.

The Iranians actually have some good ideas and decent kit, even if I enjoy mocking some of their PR efforts. It wouldn't surprise me if it came out Iran developed a weapon made specifically to target the engine room of a vessel, a dedicated naval mobility kill weapon. Or maybe they're just copying Belarus and throwing RPGs onto drones. I hope we get to find out without there being a war. So much about this doesn't add up, and I don't trust either side to tell the truth.

 

[kage69]

I thought Iran just had the little indigenous guys for (high risk) shallow water ambush roles, but after looking now I see I was wrong. Iran also owns three Kilos from Russia it got back in the 90s apparently, which means it has a credible presence in the Indian Ocean. Cruise missile capable of course.

 

[ibex333]

It is obvious Iran did not do this. They know they will be annihilated by the United States if they try anything like that. Iranians are not crazy. They fully understand the consequences.

Now... Certain negative forces in the US, may very much attempt to frame Iran to push Trump over the edge and start a war they so desperately need. (think control over land, oil, riches and so on) Same individuals who orchestrated 9/11. Same people who claimed Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.


I'm just waiting till someone starts blaming Putin and Russia for this.

 

[Jhhnn]

While Iran does have a handful of mini subs, they're all crap. Not sure those Iranian coffins can even fire cruise missiles. Risky place for subs, too shallow. Depth is to subs what altitude is to aircraft - safety. I can't think of a single type of missile that would do that little damage to an unarmored hull either. A limpet is non kinetic and most varieties are only packing a few pounds of TNT. Something moving at ~600mph and delivering 400+lbs of PETN or similar would have left a much larger impression on the ship.

The Iranians actually have some good ideas and decent kit, even if I enjoy mocking some of their PR efforts. It wouldn't surprise me if it came out Iran developed a weapon made specifically to target the engine room of a vessel, a dedicated naval mobility kill weapon. Or maybe they're just copying Belarus and throwing RPGs onto drones. I hope we get to find out without there being a war. So much about this doesn't add up, and I don't trust either side to tell the truth.

That's not quite rational. The only party shown to be aggressively dishonest in all this is the Trump Admin. It's pure FUD & bullying. These incidents are contrived in such a way that they can be used to further demonize Iran. Who's doing it is an interesting question but it's not in Iran's interests for any of this to be happening. If you want to take a contrary position, tell us what's in it for them.

 

[blankslate]

given the differing accounts about the incident as highlighted in post #132 of this thread I tend to favor the account given by the Japanese owner of the tanker than I believe the account given by anyone Trump has authority over.....

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...t-u-s-officials-over-explosives-used-n1017556

The Japanese owner of a tanker attacked in the Gulf of Omanclaimed Friday that it was struck by a flying projectile, contradicting reports by U.S. officials and the military on the source of the blast.
U.S. Central Command said the two vessels were hit Thursday by a limpet mine, which is attached to boats below the waterline using magnets. U.S. Central Command released video it claimed showed an Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps patrol boat removing an unexploded mine from one of the tankers, the Kokuka Courageous.

But on Friday morning, the owner of the 560-foot Courageous, said that sailors saw something flying toward the vessel just before the explosion and that the impact was well above the waterline.

I would not be surprised if someone was trying to arrange another Gulf of Tonkin like even that makes it easy to push the U.S. into supporting yet another unnecessary military conflict... as Congress hasn't officially declared war in several decades.


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[UglyCasanova]

Right now we just don’t know. Narrative is that it was Iran but who knows

 

[Jhhnn]

Right now we just don’t know. Narrative is that it was Iran but who knows

Oh, please. It's been contrived bullshit from the Trump admin since the beginning. This is just more of the same. Denouncing the JCPOA was a bogus move in the first place & it all proceeds from there.

 

[kage69]

That's not quite rational. The only party shown to be aggressively dishonest in all this is the Trump Admin. It's pure FUD & bullying. These incidents are contrived in such a way that they can be used to further demonize Iran. Who's doing it is an interesting question but it's not in Iran's interests for any of this to be happening. If you want to take a contrary position, tell us what's in it for them.

My having reservations about the credibility of both Washington and Tehran is not rational to you? I'm sorry to hear that Jhhnn. I don't need to demonize the handlers of Hezbollah, the ones exporting terror and their Shi'a expansion, nor I am trying. Taking their past into account works fine. The Trump admin being as bad as it is (same for Sa'udis) doesn't magically make Iran an innocent victim. You saw the mention of a false flag right? It's a legitimate possibility, I don't think anyone here denies that.

Regardless, you don't know what my official position on motive is simply because I haven't formed it yet, this story just broke. I'm making observations and asking questions, but do appreciate your interest in my perspective. If me not giving Tehran the automatic benefit of a doubt irritates you, well, I'm sure you'll get over it. Please believe me when I say I'll be keeping on an eye on this story, more to come.

 

[kage69]

You know a Griffin (or Iranian clone) might leave that kind of damage, and would fit the story we heard from the ship's crew. Griffins are lightweight, small enough to fit on drones, and we have lots of them in area due to prep for Iranian swift boat swarms. For a surface launch the launch-platform would have to be close enough for the Japanese crew to see though, but a drone launch would have likely been invisible to target until final 2-4 seconds of approach. Maybe they were deployed from attack boats, we've seen plenty of small craft in the Persian Gulf with small missile arrays. Maybe the limpets were rolled out as Plan B, then one didn't work. Be they posing as Iranians, or are actually Iranians so shit scared about reporting back to base they'd risk a 4pm full daylight return visit to target, we need to know more about those boats.

 

[Jhhnn]

My having reservations about the credibility of both Washington and Tehran is not rational to you? I'm sorry to hear that Jhhnn. I don't need to demonize the handlers of Hezbollah, the ones exporting terror and their Shi'a expansion, nor I am trying. Taking their past into account works fine. The Trump admin being as bad as it is (same for Sa'udis) doesn't magically make Iran an innocent victim. You saw the mention of a false flag right? It's a legitimate possibility, I don't think anyone here denies that.

Regardless, you don't know what my official position on motive is simply because I haven't formed it yet, this story just broke. I'm making observations and asking questions, but do appreciate your interest in my perspective. If me not giving Tehran the automatic benefit of a doubt irritates you, well, I'm sure you'll get over it. Please believe me when I say I'll be keeping on an eye on this story, more to come.

I challenged you to say what could possibly be in it for Iran to do this & you avoided the question. You just repeated well worn bullshit about the Eebil Ayatollahs.

 

[kage69]

I challenged you to say what could possibly be in it for Iran to do this & you avoided the question. You just repeated well worn bullshit about the Eebil Ayatollahs.

Here I thought it was just China you stuck your head in the sand about. Your timetable isn't being fulfilled, I understand, but it's a shame it does this to you.

I've had to tell others if they don't like my posts, they're welcome to skip them. Same applies to you Salty.

 

[Jhhnn]

Here I thought it was just China you stuck your head in the sand about. Your timetable isn't being fulfilled, I understand, but it's a shame it does this to you.

I've had to tell others if they don't like my posts, they're welcome to skip them. Same applies to you Salty.

What's in it for Iran to be doing these things, other than grief? Explain it to me.