U.S. dropping the ball?

tedthebear

Senior member
Jul 5, 2001
236
0
0
:Q What do you think of what this guy says?

The military effort has moved out ahead of the diplomatic effort, with increasingly adverse consequences.

As a result, the United States now is losing the propaganda war. With an Afghan government of national unity yet to be established, U.S. bombing appears to be another foreign power beating up on the Afghans. The United States appears, to many in the Islamic world, to be at war with the Islamic world. In particular, angry Pakistanis are putting President Pervez Musharraf under growing pressure for his support of U.S. military operations. Musharraf now warns Washington that it may be creating a "quagmire," adding that "there has been, I think, a bit of excessive collateral damage."

Any positive message from Washington ? that all Afghans will be represented in the new regime, that the Taliban is a creature of radical Arabs, that no foreign troops will occupy the country, and that the United Nations will contribute mightily to reconstruct the war-torn land ? is being drowned out by reports of exploding ordnance and its devastating consequences.

The absence of a strong positive message coupled with the focus on bombing threatens to:

1. Taint any opposition to the Taliban as a tool of the United States. The American military is the most prominent active opposition to the Taliban, which makes the Northern Alliance appear to be subordinate to an outside power.

2. Bolster the Taliban as a valid national authority. Foreign invaders have been universally hated by Afghans of all stripes. Reports indicate that ethnic Pashtun volunteers from Pakistan are flowing to the aid of Kabul and that Taliban's domestic support has solidified in the face of the bombing campaign. In addition, Taliban leaders and soldiers are taking refuge in mosques, hospitals, and schools, thwarting efforts from the skies to degrade them.

3. Make the Islamic world increasingly hostile to U.S. military operations. Daily reports of errant bombing are putting increasing pressure on the governments of Islamic states, particularly Pakistan. Musharraf has called for a bombing halt and the suspension of operations during Ramadan, the Muslim holy month beginning in mid-November.

4. Create the false expectation in the U.S. media that the military campaign will produce the desired political outcome. The danger grows that the lack of military progress will increase calls in Washington for more military action, when facilitating an indigenous, all-ethnic opposition to the Taliban ? a diplomatic task ? remains the top requirement for a successful counter-terrorism operation in Afghanistan.


Rumsfeld now finds his continuing military operations treading water and awaiting progress on the diplomatic front, progress that the military operations themselves may be making more difficult.

October 31, 2001
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
0
0
What do you think of what this guy says?

I think he's an idiot who doesn't have all the facts, or has at least ignored a good portion of them.

For instance, if the Taliban is winning the propaganda war, and all of Afghanistan is against the "foreign invader" the U.S., then why are the southern Pashtun tribes reportedly taking up arms and opening a new front against the Taliban, as reported on CNN yesterday? Hmmm, gee, I wonder?

Another pundit who is trying to stir up a story.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,420
293
126


<< Musharraf now warns Washington that it may be creating a "quagmire," adding that "there has been, I think, a bit of excessive collateral damage." >>

Yep, and you can thank the U.S. media for that. The Taliban doesn't have a penny, but they have received hundreds of millions of dollars of free coverage to wage their propaganda war, all paid for by U.S. media.

The author has a good point in that this is the risk the U.S. is taking, whether or not we are taking effective measures to counter that risk or whether its working is debatable. It looked good going in, but it may be that we should have been further along in the diplomatic and political aspects before we got the military aspect under way. Its a judgement call that can only be evaluated based on the result.

 

Ferocious

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2000
4,584
2
71
No way are we going to lose any propaganda war with anyone.

Not with OUR administration. Experience and expertise are second to none in that respect.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Tscenter, "It looked good going in, but it may be that we should have been further along in the diplomatic and political aspects before we got the military aspect under way."

Don't forget the weather concerns which are even now hampering our forces. The farther in time from 9-11 the more difficult it would be to remove bin laden and Al-Quida as the weak minded forget the horror of what happened that day. No, I won't say everything went as hoped when they went in. I will say that it is going as well as could be expected considering the difficulty of the terrain and the fact that the US is trying to find some 2000 people out of a population of 20 million. (assumed numbers)


tedthebear
What guy is this that you are "quoting"?
 

damien6

Golden Member
Oct 11, 1999
1,256
0
0


<< I think they need to stop interviewing Berkeley students >>




LOL! Will this mean diploma from Berkeley won't be worth the paper it's written on and in fact using it for toilet paper will be cheaper than buying "Charmin"?
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,420
293
126


<< No, I won't say everything went as hoped when they went in. I will say that it is going as well as could be expected considering the difficulty of the terrain and the fact that the US is trying to find some 2000 people out of a population of 20 million. (assumed numbers) >>

We need I think to have dropped a few less bombs trying to hit 30 year old tanks that don't work or armored personnel carriers that were probably pushed next to residential areas because they haven't run in three years, instead of risking civilian casualties on such targets of miniscule importance.

I understand why we did it, because the fewer casualties we can sustain when we put ground troops in, the better it will be back home, and by getting as many of these barely functioning armaments as we possibly can, the fewer casualties they can inflict on our troops. We are far more willing to risk Afghan casualties than our own, but that comes with a cost, too.

From the beginning, we should have tried more out-right bribery. Really, these people are hungry, and they will go where the food is. Not to the exclusion of good targets, if there are good targets then we should hit them hard and make no apologies. But, its almost as if we are trying to hit EVERY weapon in the Taliban's control, even if we must risk hitting a few homes to get a freaking tank that probably doesn't work, so ground troops can just waltz in without worrying about casualties. That is too 'perfect' of a goal.

We say the Taliban is doing cowardly things like taking shelter in civilian areas. Wouldn't you! Do we expect them to run out in to a field so they can have bombs dropped on them from 20,000 feet? Rumsfeld is saying to them, "Come out and fight like men!" while we are 20,000 feet in the air. Fight who? What? There is no fight, there is only death. If we want fight, the Afghans can do fight. But, they're not going to commit certain death. We're so afraid of sustaining any casualties of our own, we're willing to put Afghans in danger to get a 30 year old tank that is no match for our forces whatsoever.

We should have done more to advance our cause from within. When there is so much discontent with the current regime, you gotta work with that as much as you can. Get people to come over to your side because you've got food and water, and you treat them better, and give them money, and you smell good and have a nice smile. That sort of stuff the military planners don't understand enough. How do you win people's hearts? Not by greeting them with bombs.

This isn't the 'old' war, where the country is the enemy and everything is fair in love and war, and you could care less if you win anyone's heart. We need MUCH more finesse when there is a regime within a country that people are not very fond of. Its not too late to change our strategy, but it might be after a few hundred thousand Afghans freeze or starve to death over the winter, and we've offered them nothing but bombs so they begin to hate us more than the Taliban.
 

fragarific

Golden Member
Sep 29, 2000
1,355
0
0


<< LOL! Will this mean diploma from Berkeley won't be worth the paper it's written on and in fact using it for toilet paper will be cheaper than buying "Charmin"? >>


This publicity makes it worth more now. Sorry about that.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,420
293
126


<< congrats on becoming a golden member tcsenter! >>

Thanks, I think. I'm not much into distinctions of that sort. 1000+ posts since September of 2001, the benefits of being unemployed. hehe
 
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