U.S. Navy-China showdown: Chinese try to halt U.S. cruiser in international waters

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Karl Agathon

Golden Member
Sep 30, 2010
1,081
0
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Assuming there aren't any in that area already, there should be at least one Los Angeles class attack sub ready to sink any and all belligerent Chinese ships. in addition, the USS George Washington CBG should make a point of sailing in that area for the next week. Maybe even deciding to "get in the way" of some Chinese shipping lanes. Red China is now in the very beginning stages of acting like Hitler's Germany in the 1930's.
 
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norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
the roc already have plans in place for that. nuclear weapons are more or less off the table. roc has modern fighters and destroyers now. they also have anti missile defenses. even if the chinese would be willing to handle the huge losses on initial landfall, the taiwanese would conduct guerilla warfare in the mountains and cities.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,937
8,668
136
How would the US react if chinese ships were 120 miles off the coast of California, technically international waters? No reaction? I think not.

Hell you get pissy enough if someone approaches one of your carriers never mind how close to your territory it is.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
Hell you get pissy enough if someone approaches one of your carriers never mind how close to your territory it is.

Well technically a carrier is US territory (literally, as in it's legally considered a floating piece of the mainland US), so...

Still, if there were warships in international waters off our coast, I imagine we'd send our Navy to keep and eye on them and that would be about it. Couldn't do anything else without looking like douchebags unless there was a confirmed threat (ie: they were carrying nuclear ordnance) or something.
 

Newbian

Lifer
Aug 24, 2008
24,780
845
126
Don't you know that there is a huge double standard with what all other countries do and what we do? It's all about "American Exceptionalism". We hold ourselves as superior, well except for our kids' test scores, or our healthcare costs, or our CO2 emissions, or our surveillance morality, etc., etc., etc.

Problem is we had a reason to be there as the story pointed out and bases near the area so a good reason to have ships there.

Last I checked china has neither of those reasons so that's a big difference.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
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Maybe the Chinese operate under similar rules?

So what? Last I checked we haven't boarded, attacked or even approached any Chinese ships. They however have been quite aggressive at approaching us, apparently to the point of playing chicken.

China is doing the equivalent of the US claiming the entirety of the Pacific from Hawaii to Japan as its territorial waters. Geography just makes the claim smaller.

But don't worry, you foreigners and some Americans can shit on the US all day. We know you still prefer us to China.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
Don't you know that there is a huge double standard with what all other countries do and what we do? It's all about "American Exceptionalism". We hold ourselves as superior, well except for our kids' test scores, or our healthcare costs, or our CO2 emissions, or our surveillance morality, etc., etc., etc.

If it's so bad, why are you still here? The place you're describing sounds like a decidedly sub-standard place to live, and yet people from all over the world want to come here.

For all its problems, America is the most economically and militarily powerful single nation on the planet. Oh and our higher education is 2nd to none. We're not without our problems, but there are many exceptional things about America that are historically unprecedented. I'd still rather live here than anywhere else.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,937
8,668
136
So what? Last I checked we haven't boarded, attacked or even approached any Chinese ships. They however have been quite aggressive at approaching us, apparently to the point of playing chicken...

Well it says in the OP that your ship was stopped near their carrier and that it was performing surveillance duties on the Chinese carrier.

Maybe it's standard practice to respond like that if a missile cruiser approaches one of your carriers?
How would the US respond?
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
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it probably does have more to do with the carrier than terriotorial waters.

our secondary education is not second to none.

many universities in europe and now even asia are considered just as good if not better.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
I don't think the Chinese understand the pecking order yet.

I had an opportunity to meet a pretty senior retired navy officer this fall, he was a P3 pilot, then moved up. He had a lot of cool things to say but held back a lot. I asked him how stressful the Cold War was. His reply was along these lines "If the Soviets had done to us what we did to them we would have been at war and they would have lost".

China has far more problems than the US has and they know it. Its why they try to have a big bark. However, the second they try to bite us they'll learn the truth.
 

bradly1101

Diamond Member
May 5, 2013
4,689
294
126
www.bradlygsmith.org
If it's so bad, why are you still here?

I was born here and have never been in a job/financial position to leave.

But I've been to other places and I was amazed at how much easier it was to get around and how beautiful and clean places like Vancouver, Germany and Austria were, even in the cities.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
If it's so bad, why are you still here? The place you're describing sounds like a decidedly sub-standard place to live, and yet people from all over the world want to come here.

For all its problems, America is the most economically and militarily powerful single nation on the planet. Oh and our higher education is 2nd to none. We're not without our problems, but there are many exceptional things about America that are historically unprecedented. I'd still rather live here than anywhere else.

sco is more powerful. although russia is just as friendly with india as it is with china.

this is not just china vs the west or china vs the world. china has made many strategic moves, like allying with pakistan, burma, and other countries. if india is smart they will do the same, reaching out to vietnam, indonesia, thailand, the phillipines, south korea, and japan. china is building a lot of infrastructure in places like pakistan and burma. they are apparantly even talking to nepal, bhutan, and sri lanka. a book called asian juggernaut covers a lot of this.

multi polar geopolitik is getting stronger since the end of the cold war.

i wonder how much emerging space tech might play in all this. not only satillites, but asm, orbital weapons, and unmanned and manned spacecraft.

the mongols had much more territory than us. they may have been even more powerfull relativly for the time than us.

the 18th and 19th century british are probably a even better example.
 

WTSherman

Member
May 18, 2013
91
0
0
I fear China except for the fact they depend on our solvency. We owe them and in times of war obviously debts are erased.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
sco is more powerful. although russia is just as friendly with india as it is with china.

this is not just china vs the west or china vs the world. china has made many strategic moves, like allying with pakistan, burma, and other countries. if india is smart they will do the same, reaching out to vietnam, indonesia, thailand, the phillipines, south korea, and japan. china is building a lot of infrastructure in places like pakistan and burma. they are apparantly even talking to nepal, bhutan, and sri lanka. a book called asian juggernaut covers a lot of this.

multi polar geopolitik is getting stronger since the end of the cold war.

i wonder how much emerging space tech might play in all this. not only satillites, but asm, orbital weapons, and unmanned and manned spacecraft.

the mongols had much more territory than us. they may have been even more powerfull relativly for the time than us.

the 18th and 19th century british are probably a even better example.

The SCO?

You know how I know America is exceptional? The only serious comparisons are decentralized economic zones made up of several or more nations. It takes at least several other nations together to equal America.

Let me know when the SCO or EU dissolve their national governments and become actual nations. Until then the comparison is apples to apple trees.



There's no doubt China is a rising economic power. Unfortunately for them their military power is lagging seriously behind.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
Well it says in the OP that your ship was stopped near their carrier and that it was performing surveillance duties on the Chinese carrier.

Maybe it's standard practice to respond like that if a missile cruiser approaches one of your carriers?
How would the US respond?

"Near" is a relative term, nor is this an isolated incident, as stated in the article. A better question is how the Chinese might hypothetically respond if situations were reversed and they had all the Naval power. I sincerely doubt they'd limit themselves to surveillance.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
I was born here and have never been in a job/financial position to leave.

But I've been to other places and I was amazed at how much easier it was to get around and how beautiful and clean places like Vancouver, Germany and Austria were, even in the cities.

Well if cleanliness and public transportation availability are your two top priorities, then I guess Europe could win out. I'd rather just live in a clean area and own a car so I can actually travel if I want, but that's me.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
it rising quite fast

Quite fast meaning what exactly? They have one marginally functional carrier based on an old Soviet hulk. Good for them! In a decade or so they'll be on par with the French navy. Meanwhile we have ten active carriers and recently christened an eleventh.
 
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LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
it rising quite fast

It will slow down, dramatically.

China has no hope of reaching the per capita GDP of the US. It is an impossibility just based upon energy alone. It controls nearly none domestically and can be shut down relatively easily. This is why its blustering will ultimately fail. It is in too fragile of a position to enforce anything.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
Meanwhile we have ten active carriers and recently christened an eleventh.

and how will pay to maintain all this in the future? we will not go away instantly in the future, but india and china will rise above us not long from now, at most several decades. i agree that it very well might slowdown, but how fast could we fall? remember china is the one with a robust space program. they are wisely taking their time. brazil will also have a place in world affairs.

bill gates said that people overestimate changes over two years, but underestimate changes over 5 or 10 years. makes some sense.

once china gets one carrier up and running, it wont be much harder to make several more. they also have a fairly advanced aircraft program. also amphibious air carrier landing craft are being viewed with as much attention if not more than blue water aircraft carriers. china is already making these as well.

It will slow down, dramatically.

China has no hope of reaching the per capita GDP of the US. It is an impossibility just based upon energy alone. It controls nearly none domestically and can be shut down relatively easily. This is why its blustering will ultimately fail. It is in too fragile of a position to enforce anything.

per capita does not mean total power of the country. also i thought they have large coal reserves. they have huge rare earth metals deposits anyway, and thorium can be found there. both china and india are making investments in nuclear and renewable energy, particularly india with thorium.

i think state stability and corruption will have a bigger impact in the long run on any of the top countries (india, brazil, china, us, russia)
 
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norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
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the whole point of the russian carrier is to learn about aircraft carriers in the first place.
 
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