U.S. No Banking thread:4-19-07 Democratic led congress to fix "broken" system

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: smack Down
Congress should just put a 30% APR cap on interests and fees charged by credit card companies.

Most are over the 30% now, around 33% so basically they would only lose 3%.

Many states already cap interest rates on credit cards, so why did you pul that number out of your ass for? I've heard of reaching...

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Somewhere in all of this, you haven't really shown that my comments were untrue, Vic, just expressed your usual derision and bitterness, seeking to justify corrupt, predatory and exploitative practices.

That's what stupid and/or uneducated people are for, right? It's the basic moral underpinning of "Libertarian" posturing.

Your snide question? And the usual personal vendetta? Off topic. You'd already know the answer, anyway, if it wasn't all about you.

No, I explained your untruths clearly as being in your skewed and biased presentation, which you continue in this post as well. If all business is villainy to you, then I want to know what it is that you do to feed yourself and your family that is so enlightened, pure, and benignly beneficial to all humankind.

Ass.

Awwwwwwww look what happens when called out on the carpet hits home. :laugh:

How was I called out on the carpet, troll? You're the worst of this stupid sh!t, where grassy knoll and the 2nd shooter conspiracy theorist stupidity can be made to apply to anything and everything. Why don't you and Jhhnn just blame Satan? It wouldn't be a stretch from your current arguments.

OK, since you apparently know, who killed JFK?

Lee Harvey Oswald. That's a scientific FACT at this point.

Did you or anyone else see him do it?

See bolded. You may as well question evolution because no humans were around to witness it. :roll:

In case you haven't noticed many of your fellow conservatives do in fact dispute evolution

What fellow conservatives? You're the one who registered Republican and voted for the Great Satan GW. I voted for Gore and Kerry.

Nice segue from my point BTW.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: smack Down
Congress should just put a 30% APR cap on interests and fees charged by credit card companies.

Most are over the 30% now, around 33% so basically they would only lose 3%.

Many states already cap interest rates on credit cards, so why did you pul that number out of your ass for? I've heard of reaching...

Proof of said states with caps?

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: smack Down
Congress should just put a 30% APR cap on interests and fees charged by credit card companies.

Most are over the 30% now, around 33% so basically they would only lose 3%.

Many states already cap interest rates on credit cards, so why did you pul that number out of your ass for? I've heard of reaching...

Proof of said states with caps?

Where is your proof? You love to hawk posts that tow your party line and stupid statements, but when it comes to disagreements you fall flat on your face. Why no response to my post above?

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: smack Down
Congress should just put a 30% APR cap on interests and fees charged by credit card companies.

Most are over the 30% now, around 33% so basically they would only lose 3%.

Many states already cap interest rates on credit cards, so why did you pul that number out of your ass for? I've heard of reaching...

Most states do cap interest but it doesn't matter. The credit cards all based in states that don't cap interest rates so the state caps do not apply.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: smack Down
Congress should just put a 30% APR cap on interests and fees charged by credit card companies.

Most are over the 30% now, around 33% so basically they would only lose 3%.

Many states already cap interest rates on credit cards, so why did you pul that number out of your ass for? I've heard of reaching...

Most states do cap interest but it doesn't matter. The credit cards all based in states that don't cap interest rates so the state caps do not apply.

Huh? For a business to do business within a state, it has to abide by state laws. If California caps interest rates at 30% but the CC company resides in Nevada who doesnt have caps. That doesnt mean they can charge above 30% because they are based in another state.

btw my example above is hypothetical. I dont know if either states have caps or not.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: smack Down
Congress should just put a 30% APR cap on interests and fees charged by credit card companies.

Most are over the 30% now, around 33% so basically they would only lose 3%.

Many states already cap interest rates on credit cards, so why did you pul that number out of your ass for? I've heard of reaching...

Most states do cap interest but it doesn't matter. The credit cards all based in states that don't cap interest rates so the state caps do not apply.

Huh? For a business to do business within a state, it has to abide by state laws. If California caps interest rates at 30% but the CC company resides in Nevada who doesnt have caps. That doesnt mean they can charge above 30% because they are based in another state.

btw my example above is hypothetical. I dont know if either states have caps or not.

What allowed Wriston to make good on his threat to leave New York was a little-noticed December 1978 Supreme Court ruling. The Marquette Bank opinion permitted national banks to export interest rates on consumer loans from the state where credit decisions were made to borrowers nationwide.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/more/rise.html

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: smack Down
Congress should just put a 30% APR cap on interests and fees charged by credit card companies.

Most are over the 30% now, around 33% so basically they would only lose 3%.

Many states already cap interest rates on credit cards, so why did you pul that number out of your ass for? I've heard of reaching...

Most states do cap interest but it doesn't matter. The credit cards all based in states that don't cap interest rates so the state caps do not apply.

Huh? For a business to do business within a state, it has to abide by state laws. If California caps interest rates at 30% but the CC company resides in Nevada who doesnt have caps. That doesnt mean they can charge above 30% because they are based in another state.

btw my example above is hypothetical. I dont know if either states have caps or not.

What allowed Wriston to make good on his threat to leave New York was a little-noticed December 1978 Supreme Court ruling. The Marquette Bank opinion permitted national banks to export interest rates on consumer loans from the state where credit decisions were made to borrowers nationwide.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/more/rise.html

Interesting, what does the court say when a bank has a physical location within the state? In that case after reading the opinion of the court, it appears Omaha Bank had its location in Nebraska and MNs claim of doing business in the state equals location was false.

Most banks afaik have branch offices in nearly every state of the union. At least the big ones.

 

[imported_iNGEN]

Originally posted by: JD50
Here's a thought, if you aren't responsible enough to pay your credit card bills on time and not go over the limit, don't get a credit card. Or better yet, don't spend more than you make. Problem solved.

Unfortunately, that doesn't address the issue of one individual or group infringing upon another individual's or group's right to life, liberty, or property. That is what is being claimed here.

Once upon a time, being right of center carried with it an aura of respect for not only the law, but its intent and purpose. Conservatism as a movement is dead. We conservatives who are left are fossils. All that remain are those who wish to defraud the others (in this case by misdirection and collusion) and those on the left who want to use the threat of loss of life or liberty to take what they didn't earn.

 

[imported_iNGEN]

Originally posted by: JD50

Actually...they will raise your interest rate just because your credit score is lowered.

We remodeled our house a bit last year and relied on credit for some of it.

My wife was never late and for no reason she would get letter in the mail saying that her rate was going from 10.99 to 29.99.

She could opt out and it would close the account. We complained the first two times it happened and they would fix the rate. On the third time we told them to close the account. When its paid off we are done with them forever.

We owe them a total of about $2600 and have never been late.

Fantastic, someone finally figured out how a free market system works! Get Guiness, get Guiness! Although I shouldn't poke fun. At least JD50 isn't crying to government to solve his problems for him. He did the responsible thing, and elected not to do business with that company in the future. It would be even more principled to refinance the loan with another bank.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: iNGEN

Originally posted by: JD50

Actually...they will raise your interest rate just because your credit score is lowered.

We remodeled our house a bit last year and relied on credit for some of it.

My wife was never late and for no reason she would get letter in the mail saying that her rate was going from 10.99 to 29.99.

She could opt out and it would close the account. We complained the first two times it happened and they would fix the rate. On the third time we told them to close the account. When its paid off we are done with them forever.

We owe them a total of about $2600 and have never been late.

Fantastic, someone finally figured out how a free market system works! Get Guiness, get Guiness! Although I shouldn't poke fun. At least JD50 isn't crying to government to solve his problems for him. He did the responsible thing, and elected not to do business with that company in the future. It would be even more principled to refinance the loan with another bank.

A completely free market system doesn't exist, nor should it. The role of the government is to protect the people from internal and external threats. CC companies are one of these threats.

If everything were free and we could actually count on businesses to be socially responsible, that'd be a different matter. What's funny is that you somehow think people punishing a company post-facto would make a difference. However, it doesn't, considering that they already have their hooks in and make sure it is very difficult to dig them out. Furthermore, by specifically targeting the "underserved" market, they are targeting those most vulnerable. Some may say that it's their own fault, but remember, just because you can club a baby seal doesn't mean you should.

 

[fornax]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

He was irresponsibile. Hence he paid for that.

This is BS, and you know it. If he were irresponsible, he would have paid little or nothing at all. He paid twice what he owed (100% interest charge). He might be stupid (in his place I would have contacted TV, newspapers, made a nice story to ridicule the thieves at Chase), but is not irresponsible.

Are YOU responsible? Do you drive, for example? If yes, what is your liability insurance? If it's not at least 10 billion dollars so that you can make a proper restitution if you hit Bill Gates or Warren Buffett, for example, you are NOT responsible.

 

[Satchel]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: smack Down
Congress should just put a 30% APR cap on interests and fees charged by credit card companies.

Most are over the 30% now, around 33% so basically they would only lose 3%.

Most caps are over 30%, really? :roll:

Source

Alaska 17%
Colorado 21%
District of Columbia 24%
Florida 18%
Hawaii 24%
Indiana 21%
Kansas 14.45% to 18%
Kentucky 21%
Louisiana No limit for qualified in-state issuers. Limit for all other issuers is 18%.
Maryland 24%
Massachusetts 18%
Minnesota 18%
Mississippi 18% for cards with annual fees; 21% for cards without annual fees
Missouri 22%
North Carolina 18%
Ohio 18%
Oklahoma 21%
Tennessee 21%
Texas 14% to 22%
Washington 18%
West Virginia 18%
Wyoming 21%

 

[Jhhnn]

Wake up, Satchel. You just proved Dave's point. Only 21 states have caps, and they don't matter in the credit card realm, anyway. If there's no cap at all, it's obviously above 30%. From your own source-

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/cc/20020320a.asp

There's no federal rate cap, either-

" There is no federal limit on the interest rate a credit card company can charge.

If you've ever looked at the return address on your statement, you may notice your credit card issuer is located in a state such as South Dakota or Delaware. That's because these are the states that have either weak or no "usury laws" meaning there is no cap on the interest rate that is charged. (View this map that shows the states where the top ten credit card issuers are located.) The federal government once had national usury laws that set a cap on the amount of interest that could be charged on a loan. But after the Great Depression, it repealed them and some states put no new usury laws in place. That's why Citibank, the issuer of Mastercard, moved to South Dakota, which has no cap on interest rates. (For more on the South Dakota story and how the credit card industry took off in the 1980s, read The Ascendancy of the Credit Card Industry.)"

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/eight/

 

[Satchel]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Wake up, Satchel. You just proved Dave's point. Only 21 states have caps, and they don't matter in the credit card realm, anyway. If there's no cap at all, it's obviously above 30%. From your own source-

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/cc/20020320a.asp

There's no federal rate cap, either-

" There is no federal limit on the interest rate a credit card company can charge.

If you've ever looked at the return address on your statement, you may notice your credit card issuer is located in a state such as South Dakota or Delaware. That's because these are the states that have either weak or no "usury laws" meaning there is no cap on the interest rate that is charged. (View this map that shows the states where the top ten credit card issuers are located.) The federal government once had national usury laws that set a cap on the amount of interest that could be charged on a loan. But after the Great Depression, it repealed them and some states put no new usury laws in place. That's why Citibank, the issuer of Mastercard, moved to South Dakota, which has no cap on interest rates. (For more on the South Dakota story and how the credit card industry took off in the 1980s, read The Ascendancy of the Credit Card Industry.)"

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/eight/

Of course there is no federal rate cap, this is a state issue, as it should be. You're right that only 21 states have rate caps, but it hardly proves Dave's point. He implied that most states have caps that are over 30% and that is completely false. Of the 21 states that have caps, all of them are well under 30%. If a state does not have a cap, then the residents of those states should contact their respective legislature to impose said cap... or they can STFU.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Satchel

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Wake up, Satchel. You just proved Dave's point. Only 21 states have caps, and they don't matter in the credit card realm, anyway. If there's no cap at all, it's obviously above 30%. From your own source-

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/cc/20020320a.asp

There's no federal rate cap, either-

" There is no federal limit on the interest rate a credit card company can charge.

If you've ever looked at the return address on your statement, you may notice your credit card issuer is located in a state such as South Dakota or Delaware. That's because these are the states that have either weak or no "usury laws" meaning there is no cap on the interest rate that is charged. (View this map that shows the states where the top ten credit card issuers are located.) The federal government once had national usury laws that set a cap on the amount of interest that could be charged on a loan. But after the Great Depression, it repealed them and some states put no new usury laws in place. That's why Citibank, the issuer of Mastercard, moved to South Dakota, which has no cap on interest rates. (For more on the South Dakota story and how the credit card industry took off in the 1980s, read The Ascendancy of the Credit Card Industry.)"

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/eight/

Of course there is no federal rate cap, this is a state issue, as it should be. You're right that only 21 states have rate caps, but it hardly proves Dave's point. He implied that most states have caps that are over 30% and that is completely false. Of the 21 states that have caps, all of them are well under 30%. If a state does not have a cap, then the residents of those states should contact their respective legislature to impose said cap... or they can STFU.

Did you read Jhhnn's first link?

Due to a SC court ruling, if a company is HQed in a state with no cap, they can charge that to each and every customer in the nation. So as long as every single state does not have a cap, companies could change their HQ to that state and still get around things.

In summary, as long as every single state does not have a a cap below 30%, if a lender is HQed in a state without a cap, effectively no state in the nation has a rate cap at all.

 

[Satchel]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
If there's no cap at all, it's obviously above 30%.

You live in a state without a cap. Is the interest rate on your credit card over 30%?

 

[Satchel]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Satchel

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Wake up, Satchel. You just proved Dave's point. Only 21 states have caps, and they don't matter in the credit card realm, anyway. If there's no cap at all, it's obviously above 30%. From your own source-

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/cc/20020320a.asp

There's no federal rate cap, either-

" There is no federal limit on the interest rate a credit card company can charge.

If you've ever looked at the return address on your statement, you may notice your credit card issuer is located in a state such as South Dakota or Delaware. That's because these are the states that have either weak or no "usury laws" meaning there is no cap on the interest rate that is charged. (View this map that shows the states where the top ten credit card issuers are located.) The federal government once had national usury laws that set a cap on the amount of interest that could be charged on a loan. But after the Great Depression, it repealed them and some states put no new usury laws in place. That's why Citibank, the issuer of Mastercard, moved to South Dakota, which has no cap on interest rates. (For more on the South Dakota story and how the credit card industry took off in the 1980s, read The Ascendancy of the Credit Card Industry.)"

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/eight/

Of course there is no federal rate cap, this is a state issue, as it should be. You're right that only 21 states have rate caps, but it hardly proves Dave's point. He implied that most states have caps that are over 30% and that is completely false. Of the 21 states that have caps, all of them are well under 30%. If a state does not have a cap, then the residents of those states should contact their respective legislature to impose said cap... or they can STFU.

Did you read Jhhnn's first link?

Due to a SC court ruling, if a company is HQed in a state with no cap, they can charge that to each and every customer in the nation. So as long as a single state does not have a cap, companies could change their HQ to that state and still get around things.

So as long as every single state does not have a a cap below 30%, if a lender is HQed in a state without a cap, effectively no state in the nation has a rate cap at all.

I'd be interested to see that court ruling. As far as I can tell it is indeed state specific. Louisiana in particular says "No limit for qualified in-state issuers. Limit for all other issuers is 18%."

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Satchel

I'd be interested to see that court ruling. As far as I can tell it is indeed state specific. Louisiana in particular says "No limit for qualified in-state issuers. Limit for all other issuers is 18%."

Honestly, if you're going to respond to people's posts, at least have the decency to check out the links they provide. In Jhhnn's link, this is specifically stated:

State of interest rates
In Marquette vs. First Omaha Service Corp., the Supreme Court ruled that a national bank could charge the highest interest rate allowed in their home state to customers living anywhere in the United States, including states with restrictive interest caps.

 

[Satchel]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Satchel

I'd be interested to see that court ruling. As far as I can tell it is indeed state specific. Louisiana in particular says "No limit for qualified in-state issuers. Limit for all other issuers is 18%."

Honestly, if you're going to respond to people's posts, at least have the decency to check out the links they provide. In Jhhnn's link, this is specifically stated:

State of interest rates
In Marquette vs. First Omaha Service Corp., the Supreme Court ruled that a national bank could charge the highest interest rate allowed in their home state to customers living anywhere in the United States, including states with restrictive interest caps.

Right. I read that. But I didn't ask for you to recap the editorial piece that he linked, I asked for the court ruling itself. In any event, the article he linked clearly states that "In the early '80s, most states capped credit card interest rates between 12 percent and 18 percent. Today's caps are in the 18-percent to 24-percent range." So how is it that Dave is right when he says that most states have caps that are over 30%?

edit - i before e

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Satchel

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Satchel

I'd be interested to see that court ruling. As far as I can tell it is indeed state specific. Louisiana in particular says "No limit for qualified in-state issuers. Limit for all other issuers is 18%."

Honestly, if you're going to respond to people's posts, at least have the decency to check out the links they provide. In Jhhnn's link, this is specifically stated:

State of interest rates
In Marquette vs. First Omaha Service Corp., the Supreme Court ruled that a national bank could charge the highest interest rate allowed in their home state to customers living anywhere in the United States, including states with restrictive interest caps.

Right. I read that. But I didn't ask for you to recap the editorial piece that he linked, I asked for the court ruling itself. In any event, the article he linked clearly states that "In the early '80s, most states capped credit card interest rates between 12 percent and 18 percent. Today's caps are in the 18-percent to 24-percent range." So how is it that Dave is right when he says that most states have caps that are over 30%?

edit - i before e

The court ruling itself you're going to have to go to a library for or google yourself. Just because the article isn't something you may agree with doesn't mean it's wrong. A quick Google Search shows that the Editorial's statement is factually correct.

And while there may technically be state interest rate caps "on the books," essentially there is absolutely no rate cap anywhere in the US. Dave may be incorrect in saying that most states have caps that are over 30%, but the spirit of his post (that because of case law, there is essentially no cap and completely open to exploitation and interest rates going as high as the lender wants) is correct.

 

[BigJ]

Here, found the case:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=439&invol=299

 

[Satchel]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Satchel

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Satchel

I'd be interested to see that court ruling. As far as I can tell it is indeed state specific. Louisiana in particular says "No limit for qualified in-state issuers. Limit for all other issuers is 18%."

Honestly, if you're going to respond to people's posts, at least have the decency to check out the links they provide. In Jhhnn's link, this is specifically stated:

State of interest rates
In Marquette vs. First Omaha Service Corp., the Supreme Court ruled that a national bank could charge the highest interest rate allowed in their home state to customers living anywhere in the United States, including states with restrictive interest caps.

Right. I read that. But I didn't ask for you to recap the editorial piece that he linked, I asked for the court ruling itself. In any event, the article he linked clearly states that "In the early '80s, most states capped credit card interest rates between 12 percent and 18 percent. Today's caps are in the 18-percent to 24-percent range." So how is it that Dave is right when he says that most states have caps that are over 30%?

edit - i before e

The court ruling itself you're going to have to go to a library for or google yourself. Just because the article isn't something you may agree with doesn't mean it's wrong. A quick Google Search shows that the Editorial's statement is factually correct.

And while there may technically be state interest rate caps "on the books," essentially there is absolutely no rate cap anywhere in the US. Dave may be incorrect in saying that most states have caps that are over 30%, but the spirit of his post (that because of case law, there is essentially no cap and completely open to exploitation and interest rates going as high as the lender wants) is correct.

Fair enough. :beer:

 

[smashp]

So i had a credit card witha 12 year credit history. never one late payment and my credit is excellent. The card had a fixed 8.9% rate for years.

Chase buys the creditcard bank out. I now have a chase card. my payment date for eleven years has always fallen on the 14th to the 16th everymonth ( I checked all my historic statements. )

Chase now has my card for 4 months. I use automatic bill pay to pay my card everymonth on the 13th. I review my statement one month and notice a late payment Fee. WTF.

Seems Chase bumped my due date the previous month to the 10th for that month only, and I didnt notice.

So in October is was the the 16th, nov the 10th, december back to the 16th.

I call customer service and Raise hell.

Stupid person on other end explains to me how "not all months have same amount of days in them is the reason. so the Billing cycle changes"

"Ok, name me the month that has 6 less days in it than any over month."

a pause, "I thought so" "this is F@cking BS " i tell her.

Chase refunds the late fee.

The best part is the next statement i got in December, my rate was bumped to 18.99% and stayed there in January after the late fee credit appeared.

I write a check, pay off card, call to cancel. their specialist offers to lower my rate to 13.99 if i dont close the card, i tell him what happened and how they are f'ing crooks and how I Will never do any business with Chase again in my lifetime.

account closed.


I am a lucky one though because i have minimal CC debt and can alwys write a check to pay it all off anytime i want. I will never im my life raise my credit debt over what cash i have in any savings or investments.

Not every American has this ability and they rely on CC to Live unfortunately.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: BigJ
Here, found the case:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=439&invol=299

The court ruling itself you're going to have to go to a library for or google yourself. Just because the article isn't something you may agree with doesn't mean it's wrong. A quick Google Search shows that the Editorial's statement is factually correct.

And while there may technically be state interest rate caps "on the books," essentially there is absolutely no rate cap anywhere in the US.

Dave may be incorrect in saying that most states have caps that are over 30%, but the spirit of his post (that because of case law, there is essentially no cap and completely open to exploitation and interest rates going as high as the lender wants) is correct.

Thank you sir :thumbsup: