U.S. No Health Care 10-15 GOP based Medicare plan squanders $15 billion in 2007

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Sysbuilder05

Senior member
Nov 10, 2004
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Originally posted by: alent1234
people are buying cars, just not GM

This is what happens when unions decide they want free healthcare for life. It costs GM almost $2000 per car to provide retirement benefits. Too bad consumers don't want to pay it.


Make me fu#$ing laugh pal,other car companies pay the same benifits and are doing great. Yawn...as usual though any time a company is having a rough go it just has to be because of the union. Wait...that must be why Gateway went from a powerhouse computer company to a crap company right? Yeah,the Gateway computer builder union.

GM's problems couldn't have anything to do with overpaid CEO that makes oh....$2,000 PER HOUR and some general mismanagement thown in. BTW... Wonder if the CEO got free healthcare and a retirement package? What did that cost per car??


 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,403
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Originally posted by: Sysbuilder05
Originally posted by: alent1234
people are buying cars, just not GM

This is what happens when unions decide they want free healthcare for life. It costs GM almost $2000 per car to provide retirement benefits. Too bad consumers don't want to pay it.


Make me fu#$ing laugh pal,other car companies pay the same benifits and are doing great. Yawn...as usual though any time a company is having a rough go it just has to be because of the union. Wait...that must be why Gateway went from a powerhouse computer company to a crap company right? Yeah,the Gateway computer builder union.

GM's problems couldn't have anything to do with overpaid CEO that makes oh....$2,000 PER HOUR and some general mismanagement thown in. BTW... Wonder if the CEO got free healthcare and a retirement package? What did that cost per car??

GM is one of, if not THE highest paying health care providers in the world. Due mostly because of the leverage that unions have in getting more and more lucrative coverages, drug co-pays, and ridiculously low premiums for retirees.

A couple million dollar a year CEO is a drop in the bucket compared to the 1.2 MILLION current employees and retired employees that GM is subsidizing the health care costs of.
 

vi edit

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Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
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http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/webgm14e_20050114.htm

Health care is pothole in GM's '05 profit path

January 14, 2005
BY JEFFREY McCRACKEN
FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER

What a difference a year makes.

A year ago, confident General Motors Corp. executives told Wall Street investors and auto analysts the automaker was poised for higher market share and higher profits on its way toward hitting its long-running profit goal of $10 per share by 2005 or 2006.

Thursday afternoon, those same GM executives warned Wall Street the world's largest automaker will make much less in 2005 than it did in 2004 and also pushed back that profit goal to 2007, or later. That $10-per-share goal had often been considered somewhat pie-in-the-sky by Wall Street, but nonetheless GM had insisted it could be done by this year or next.

Now, GM expects to earn between $4 and $5 a share in 2005, which would be a drop of about 30 percent from the range GM has for 2004.

GM is especially skeptical about North America -- where it is projecting profits will tumble by half or more, to the point the automaker expects to make less here than it will in Asia. That hasn't happened since GM started breaking out Asia-Pacific profits in 1998.

The primary cause for GM's new assessment one year later: rising health care costs.

The automaker, which has been lamenting for years the cost of providing health care to its 1.1 million employees, retirees and other dependents, said its health care expense will jump about $1 billion in 2005.

GM Chief Financial Officer John Devine said the main problem for GM was the rising cost of prescription drugs.

"What's going on? In a word, or two words, drug costs. That's the most pressing issue for us," Devine said.

GM projects it will spend about $5.6 billion on health care in 2005, up from $5.2 billion in 2004 and $4.8 billion in 2003.

The real expense is the cost to GM for all the retiree health care spending yet to come.

The automaker, much like Ford Motor Co. or any other large company with a lot of retirees, must set aside money for all the future health care needed for current retirees and those yet to come. That expense will jump $1 billion, said Devine.

And it's that expense, almost by itself, that GM thinks will knock its profits in North America to the lowest they have been in several years.

GM said it would still make $6-$6.50 per share in 2004, which is about what Wall Street expects from it. But that amount is lower than what GM was predicting just six months ago, $7 a share. GM is to announce official 2004 results on Wednesday.

Wall Street reacted to the news by selling off GM shares. The sell-off was especially sharp after 3 p.m. when GM put out a news release spelling out some of the less-rosy numbers.

GM stock fell 2.8 percent on Thursday or $1.07 to close at $37.32. A year ago, GM shares traded at $53.33.

Automakers and suppliers often give their forecasts the week before the North American International Auto Show opens to the public.

GM's less-than-rosy view for 2005 was echoed earlier in the day by several suppliers, especially those like Troy-based Delphi Corp. and Detroit-based American Axle & Manufacturing Holdings, which get more than 50 percent of their sales from former owner GM.

These suppliers -- and plenty of others around metro Detroit -- are plagued by some of the same problems as GM, such as the aging of GM's full-size truck lineup. GM's full-size trucks, an industry powerhouse since 1999, are now getting old compared to competitors like the Ford F-series and won't be redesigned until 2006 and 2007.

This lineup, which is off a common structure known within auto circles as the GMT-800 platform, includes stalwarts such as the Chevy Silverado, Chevy Suburban or Cadillac Escalade.

History shows that when cars or trucks enter their last year sales either fall off rapidly, pricey incentives are needed to move them, or both.

GM's concerns in 2005 extend well beyond health care or aging trucks. There is Europe, for instance, where GM has been unable to turn a profit for several years. It has launched several restructuring efforts and large-scale job cuts, which have trimmed costs, but sales in Europe have never gotten to projected levels.

The automaker had hoped to break even there in 2004, but will instead lose millions. For this year, the goal is to keep losses in Europe to $500 million.

"Some of these things, like health care, are beyond our control, but some are within our control, like GM Europe," said GM Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner.

Even an area of the world that GM has been pointing to with optimism -- China and the Asia-Pacific region -- is projected to post lower earnings in 2005 than in 2004. The automaker still expects profits from there -- in fact, higher profits from that region than North America -- but nonetheless down from last year.

The brightest spot for GM is its credit arm, GMAC, which continues to post record profits by handling things like auto loans and mortgages.

No longer does GMAC simply make a little more money than GM's automotive operations, it's now projected in 2005 to triple or quadruple the earnings GM gets from every car and truck it sells around the world.

GM expects GMAC to post profits of at least $2.5 billion in 2005, in line with what GM expects from the financial giant in 2004.

By comparison, GM expects to make only $500 million from selling cars and trucks in North America -- an amount that's expected to be wiped out by the $500-million loss in Europe.

GM then expects to make about $600 million in Asia-Pacific and $100 million in Latin America.
 

vi edit

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Oct 28, 1999
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http://www.forbes.com/reuters/newswire/2004/03/11/rtr1295576.html

DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp. said Thursday that its retiree health care costs rose in 2003 at a faster clip than in 2002, and that the government should do more to help private companies rein in soaring medical costs.

GM, the world's largest automaker, spends more on health care for its current and retired workers than steel for its cars. GM officials have welcomed recent changes in the U.S. Medicare old-age health system, but have called for more action to combat rising health care costs.

"It does provide some welcome but limited relief for General Motors, but it doesn't solve the larger issue, which is the escalating costs for health care," GM spokesman Jerry Dubrowski said.

Dubrowski said that the health care burden puts GM, and other U.S. businesses that provide similar benefits, at a competitive disadvantage to its foreign competitors which have the bulk of their health care costs covered by government. GM's health care plans cover about 1.2 million employees, retirees and their dependents.

Because of rising health care costs, the automaker's obligations for retiree health care costs in the future grew to $63.4 billion at the end of 2003, up from $57.2 billion at the end of 2002, GM said in a regulatory filing released on Thursday.

Despite some relief from the U.S. prescription drug plan, GM expects the amount spent on health care to rise to $5.1 billion this year from $4.8 billion in 2003, and the obligation for future health care costs to also rise, Dubrowski said.

GM said the Medicare overhaul will cut by about $4.1 billion its future health care costs for its retirees.

The Detroit automaker has fought to curtail rising health care costs, and expects the annual rise in those expenses to fall to a rate of 5 percent by 2009 from 7.2 percent in 2002.

But expenses per employee grew by 8.5 percent last year, above the 7.2 percent rate it had expected, which had a major impact on its future health care obligations.

GM said that a one percentage point increase in the rate raises its future health care obligations by $7.6 billion and increases the interest cost on its health care plans by $539 million.

In the first quarter of this year, GM contributed $5 billion to its health care plan, raising their assets from $10 billion at the end of 2003.

Copyright 2004, Reuters News Service
 

vi edit

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Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
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http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0403/11/a01-88813.htm

GM health care bill tops $60 billion
Cost adds $1,400 per vehicle, hurts competitiveness

DETROIT ? General Motors Corp. is expected to report this week that its future obligation for employee and retiree health care topped $60 billion last year, and new Medicare legislation will do little to reduce the expenses.

The crushing health care burden will be detailed in GM?s year-end financial report with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, the company said.

The $60 billion figure represents a sharp increase in the automaker?s projected obligations from 2002. In recent months, GM officials have said soaring health care spending has become the leading factor undermining the automaker?s competitiveness.

GM?s health care costs now account for $1,400 per vehicle, a severe handicap as the world?s biggest automaker battles to recover market share in an environment of falling vehicle prices.

The company is at a particular disadvantage against foreign competitors, especially those based in other nations where health care is federally funded, GM spokesman Jerry Dubrowski said.

Analyst David Healy of Burnham Securities said that if GM?s health care costs continue to escalate, they represent a serious threat to profits.

?They?re profitable in North America right now, despite the level of health care costs, but not impressively so,? he said.

If GM endures another significant cost increase this year, Healy added, ?they?ve got a problem.?

The new Medicare prescription drug plan for the elderly provides financial incentives and subsidies for companies that continue drug benefits for retirees. Delphi Corp., the world?s largest auto parts maker and a former GM subsidiary, expects the government plan to save it $500 million.

But GM, the largest private provider of health care nationwide, says the savings from the new Medicare plan pale in comparison to its overall obligations.

?The Medicare bill does provide some limited relief for companies offering these benefits, but in GM?s case the sharply rising cost of health care is offsetting much of this relief,? said Dubrowski.

While annual U.S. health care inflation has averaged 12 percent to 15 percent, GM has managed to limit growth in its health care outlays to 8 percent a year.

In 2002, GM spent $4.5 billion ? or $1,200 a vehicle ? to cover the health care costs of 1.2 million employees, retirees and their dependents, compared with $3.0 billion in 1996. Those costs are expected to rise to about $5.1 billion this year, GM Chief Financial Officer John Devine said in January.

That compares with $2.5 billion for 2002 health care spending at Ford Motor Co. and $1.4 billion for DaimlerChrysler AG?s Chrysler Group.

Alarmed at the recent increases in health care costs nationwide, GM, Ford, DaimlerChrysler and other manufacturers are pressing Washington lawmakers for more relief. Analysts say soaring health care costs are also discouraging some manufacturers and companies from hiring.

The rising cost of drugs is ?the single biggest issue,? Devine told analysts earlier this year.

Prescription drugs costs have increased, on average, 15 percent to 20 percent each year, the company said. In 2002, GM spent $1.4 billion, or 31 percent of its total health care expenditures, on prescription drugs.

To help curb health care costs, GM has undertaken a number of initiatives including mandating less expensive generic prescription drugs when possible. It also has raised co-payments and deductibles for some white collar workers and retirees.

Health care was a major issue in last fall?s national contract negotiations between Detroit automakers and the United Auto Workers union. But UAW President Ron Gettelfinger successfully resisted efforts by Detroit automakers to shift more health care costs onto hourly workers.

The four-year pact provides increased co-payments for some prescription drugs for active members and future retirees.

Drugs used over the long-term, called maintenance drugs, to control chronic conditions, must be bought through mail order and generic drugs must be used when possible or members face higher co-pays and a $10 penalty.

At GM, a new pilot program designed to lower health care expenses is being expanded from Flint and Anderson, Ind., to all locations. The program offers wellness classes and fitness education to help employees stay fit and healthy as a means of further reducing health care costs.
 
Feb 3, 2001
5,156
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: catnap1972
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: judasmachine
I'd buy a GM if they weren't ugly and they were at least Hybrids.

Huh??? According to the P&N experts in here there is no demand, Zero, Nada for Hybrids.

Why would you want to get something no one wants???

I say again: Prius demand GREATLY exceeds supply.

People are waiting WEEKS to MONTHS to get their hands on this "no demand" car.

Jason

I *think* he was being sarcastic

I thought so too, but it's hard to tell with Dave, so I figured I'd hedge my bets

I should be a Politician :thumbsup: :laugh:

LOL, fair enough

Jason
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
I have no doubts that they wil come out of this. They just need to position themselves better.
They have taken the walmart approach, cheap and high volumes...the problem is, walmart can import their goods...GM can't.

I wasn't following the hybrid convo in here.
But as gas prices rise, their demand will go up...and adding electric motors and batteries is not all that hard.
They had EV1 first...they were leaders, not anymore. The thing is, they have the capital (believe it or not) to invest in anything and excel at it.
I think they need to get their a$$es into hybrids asap.
 

alent1234

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2002
3,915
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0
GM already builds a lot of cars in Canada

trouble is that their current obligations don't go away. The only way to do this is to split the company and to leave the automotive unit with all the obligations which will be passed on to the US Government when it goes Chapter 11
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
GM says it may phase out one of its brands.

GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz described Buick and Pontiac as "damaged brands" due to lack of investment over the years.

But the company, which has about $300 billion in outstanding debt, said on Wednesday it was in talks to sell a stake in its GMAC Commercial Mortgage unit after potential investors expressed interest in the unit.
I guess they are starting to ditch GMAC, not shift towards it.

I suggest everyon read this article...he brings up some good points for positive outlook...not just doom and gloom as some have been posting here.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
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Big 3 sales surge in Canada, slip in US
Big Three market share rebounds in Canada; slips in U.S.
Last Updated Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:39:57 EST
CBC News

TORONTO - The Big Three automakers have seen their market share rebound to a more than two-year high in Canada, even as their market share continues to slip in the U.S., according to a report released Monday.

The Scotia Economics Canadian Auto Report said sales by General Motors, DaimlerChrysler and Ford of Canada climbed 16 per cent year-over-year in February ? the best gain in five years ? thanks to higher incentives.

By contrast, the Big Three have seen their U.S. sales fall six per cent so far this year. Their combined market share is now 59 per cent, down from the 70 per cent share they had as recently as 1998.

The Scotia Economics report said sales of gas-guzzling SUVs have plunged 22 per cent so far this year as gasoline prices reach all-time highs in the U.S..

"Consumers have also been shifting to popular new crossover utility vehicles (CUVs) and small pickup trucks introduced by Japanese automakers," Carlos Gomes, Scotiabank's auto industry analyst, said in a statement.

"U.S. sales of CUVs have surged by 12.5 per cent so far this year and now account for nearly one-quarter of the U.S. light truck market, up from less than 20% last year," says Carlos Gomes, Scotiabank's auto industry specialist.

"Purchases of small pickup trucks? a segment with smaller profit margins and in which Japanese automakers are making inroads, with about a 40 per cent market share ? have also strengthened," he said.

General Motors has been particularly hard hit by the swing away from SUVs and light trucks, Gomes said.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Stunt

The Scotia Economics report said sales of gas-guzzling SUVs have plunged 22 per cent so far this year as gasoline prices reach all-time highs in the U.S..

That can't be right. The Elitists in P&N said that would never happen.

They said Gas would have to hit $6 gallon before SUV owners would be affected.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Stunt

The Scotia Economics report said sales of gas-guzzling SUVs have plunged 22 per cent so far this year as gasoline prices reach all-time highs in the U.S..

That can't be right. The Elitists in P&N said that would never happen.

They said Gas would have to hit $6 gallon before SUV owners would be affected.
Every device with a consumable has a demand dependent on the price of the consumable.
This is basic economics. For example...an increase in price of cds = a decrease in demand for cd players.
or one of my favorites...
Free mp3's increase demand for mp3 players...hehe
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Stunt

The Scotia Economics report said sales of gas-guzzling SUVs have plunged 22 per cent so far this year as gasoline prices reach all-time highs in the U.S..

That can't be right. The Elitists in P&N said that would never happen.

They said Gas would have to hit $6 gallon before SUV owners would be affected.
Every device with a consumable has a demand dependent on the price of the consumable.
This is basic economics. For example...an increase in price of cds = a decrease in demand for cd players.
or one of my favorites...
Free mp3's increase demand for mp3 players...hehe

Say goodbye to your MP3's.

The USSC may be making them illegal and banned forever as we speak.


 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
Not in Canada yet :beer:
see my opinions in the filesharing thread.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
GM just about dead as it should be.

4-19-2005 General Motors Reports $1.1B Loss in 1Q

General Motors Corp., the world's largest automaker, said Tuesday it lost $1.1 billion in the first quarter

GM sales in the United States, its largest and most competitive market, sank 4 percent for the first three months of 2005 from a year ago.

For the same period, its U.S. market share slipped to 25.6 percent from roughly 27 percent, according research firm to Autodata Corp.

It shares have plunged in recent weeks to levels not seen in a decade or more.

Asian automakers such as Toyota Motor Corp., Nissan Motor Co. and Hyundai Motor Co. continue to make U.S. market share gains with new products at the expense of GM and Ford Motor Co., the nation's No. 2 automaker.
================================================
Of course they are blaming it all on Health care costs which is why I say they should die.
 

MCWAR

Banned
Jan 13, 2005
197
0
0
WOW! GM just opened their line of Hummer 3 here in Shreveport! There go's the neighborhood and the economy. Sounds like a tanked business to me.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: MCWAR
WOW! GM just opened their line of Hummer 3 here in Shreveport! There go's the neighborhood and the economy. Sounds like a tanked business to me.

Yep, more Gas Guzzling junk off the assembly line.

It's a shame, that new Shreveport Assembly line is awesome.

Maybe I can get the plant at Bankruptcy Auction and crank out Hybrids or Hydrogen Cars out of it.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Ford slashes 11,600 jobs, cuts salaries from $38 to $17 hr and no health care.

The New American Dream - Nothing

5-25-2005 Ford to Take Back 24 Ailing Visteon Plants

The agreement reduces the number of Visteon manufacturing plants in North America from 58 to 36 and cuts the average plant size in half, Johnston said. The company won't have any plants with more than 1,500 employees under the agreement; now it has six.

The average hourly wage at Visteon's plants will drop from $38 to $17, Johnston said, and the number of UAW-covered hourly employees will drop from 17,400 to 5,000.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,424
8,386
126
$450 million to $650 million this year and $300 million to $500 million between 2005 and 2009 connected to the buyouts of about 5,000 hourly workers
1 billion split between 5000 people... they're not hurting too bad
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: ElFenix
$450 million to $650 million this year and $300 million to $500 million between 2005 and 2009 connected to the buyouts of about 5,000 hourly workers
1 billion split between 5000 people... they're not hurting too bad

That's not the issue, it's new employees.

Nice way to skirt the issue of U.S. wages spiraling down while costs of living go up (health care leading the way).

 

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
11,169
1
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Ford slashes 11,600 jobs, cuts salaries from $38 to $17 hr and no health care.

The New American Dream - Nothing

5-25-2005 Ford to Take Back 24 Ailing Visteon Plants

The agreement reduces the number of Visteon manufacturing plants in North America from 58 to 36 and cuts the average plant size in half, Johnston said. The company won't have any plants with more than 1,500 employees under the agreement; now it has six.

The average hourly wage at Visteon's plants will drop from $38 to $17, Johnston said, and the number of UAW-covered hourly employees will drop from 17,400 to 5,000.

This is some of the best news I've heard from ford - maybe the company won't tank after all if they can reign in their incredibly high labor costs. I see $17/hr as a fair wage for WORKING ON AN ASSEMBLY LINE which is just menial labor. $17 is more in-line with what Asian plants in the U.S pay their workers and I view it as a good market rate for work that can be done without a college degree - Ford should hopefully be able to pass the savings onto the customer by doing more quality control and still generate a profit.
 
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