U.S. SOLDIER BURNED IN EFFIGY AT PORTLAND ANTI-WAR PROTEST...

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I think these idiots might actually be hurting their cause since most Americans who see this will be upset by these images.


Look at the pictures here and the ones from the 1970's hostage take over in Iran, they look a lot a like.
I am sure our little terrorist friends will be using pictures like this to drum up more support for their cause as well...

They are probably right winged infiltrators trying to make the left look bad. We know the right and their dirty tricks, no?

But what about the real troops being blown up in Iraq, all those people dying for Bush lies? Where's the outrage on the right about that?

What about the loonies burning effigies of our troops, where's the outrage on the left about that?

We could go in circles all day long or we can discuss the OP, it appears that you do not like what occurred in the OP and since the people that did it are most likely of the same political affiliation as yourself, you would rather change the subject than have to condemn someone from your own party.

No, I think the troops were used by Bush to further his political career and it backfired big time. I think Bush needs to be impeached and convicted. I think he should stand trial in the Hague. I think that compared to the mess in Iraq this thread is on a minuscule issue. Personally I think the world needs to disarm and put war behind it, to have no more soldiers. But conditions being what they are we can't do that unilaterally and need an Army. I, therefore, have high respect for those who volunteer to serve. I will never be caught burning them in effigy. They are not the problem. The problem is Bush. Democrats who burn troops in effigy are blind in my opinion just like those who support the war. Neither side thinks they are blind. They think I am.

I think they are nuts but what good does it do to condemn? It just makes people feel how bad they already feel. It won't change their minds. The only thing that can change people is love. Some how some way a crow bar has to be put under our certain feelings that we are worthless.

 

[Theb]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: alien42
who cares, it is a couple of 'nobodies'. congratulations on giving the attention they are seeking.

I'd say Facebook is doing that.

Otherwise, way to go (golf clap) attack the OP instead of those idiots or Facebook for allowing the photos to remain up.

Fern.

As much as I would love to see these pictures disappear and everyone forget all about them since I oppose the war and this has the potential to make me look like douche by association, I think it's reasonable for Facebook to leave them up.

 

[Steeplerot]

Low and behold, the 101st keyboard couchwaffe is up in arms because something happened Un-PC!

Cry more, it is a effigy of the whole jingoistic culture humping our democracy to death, quit being PC whiners.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Low and behold, the 101st keyboard couchwaffe is up in arms because something happened Un-PC!

Cry more, it is a effigy of the whole jingoistic culture humping our democracy to death, quit being PC whiners.

Welcome back, we've missed you. How was the effigy burning by the way?

Oh, there is a another Chavez thread that needs your attention, it either on this page or the next one.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Low and behold, the 101st keyboard couchwaffe is up in arms because something happened Un-PC!

Cry more, it is a effigy of the whole jingoistic culture humping our democracy to death, quit being PC whiners.

Welcome back, we've missed you. How was the effigy burning by the way?

Oh, there is a another Chavez thread that needs your attention, it either on this page or the next one.

Yeah I saw my name being childishly used since I was not around, I swear you people are like idiot ex roomates who blame everything on the guy who moved out or on vacation, grow up.

 

[Kwaipie]

I served more than 10 yrs in the service defending the Constitution.
I was at Portland's anti-war rally last Sunday.
I don't condone the activities of the anarchists and their non-message. Their entire reason for being there is to raise a commotion. They have no message, they are merely getting in the way.

So many conservatives in this thread are outraged that a stuffed doll was burned. It was a doll. During that same time, 10 enlisted very young men (real human beings) died in this clusterfsk quagmire your party is responsible for. I don't see threads with 80+ posts flying in outrage that another young American is dead or that 10 more Americans are maimed for life. If it were up to you (conservatives) we'd be over there fighting this un-winnable conflict for generations. There truly is no end in sight. At least the Brits have decided to get out while the getting was good. Now we can rely on the remainder of the Coalition of the Willing to provide flesh to this situation. I think Tonga still has some 18-30 yr olds.

 

[jpeyton]

Cool.

Maybe toss in a Bush dummy and an Israeli flag next time for good measure.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: JD50
WTF is wrong with you people that are making excuses for this kind of behavior? Fine, you don't agree with the war, but its still ok to critize some of your fellow anti bush, anti war zealots when they go overboard.

I'm sure that if there was a thread about some rednecks from Alabama burning a black man in effigy I doubt that you A-holes would be saying that this is no big deal.

:thumbsdown:

And I'm sure you would defend that redneck's rights, right? Those people burning the soldier effigies have their own problems, complicated by the Iraq War. You, however, will be the first to praise the rednecks for practicing their constitutional rights, yet you aren't doing the same for those protestors? Tell me, what's the difference?

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: JD50
WTF is wrong with you people that are making excuses for this kind of behavior? Fine, you don't agree with the war, but its still ok to critize some of your fellow anti bush, anti war zealots when they go overboard.

I'm sure that if there was a thread about some rednecks from Alabama burning a black man in effigy I doubt that you A-holes would be saying that this is no big deal.

:thumbsdown:

And I'm sure you would defend that redneck's rights, right? Those people burning the soldier effigies have their own problems, complicated by the Iraq War. You, however, will be the first to praise the rednecks for practicing their constitutional rights, yet you aren't doing the same for those protestors? Tell me, what's the difference?

Wrong, I would not praise those rednecks, but I would defend their rights to do it, I would also defend the rights of these protestors to do what they did. I would say the exact same thing about that as I am here, its absolutely disgusting. No one has suggested that they should not have the right to do what they did, but that doesn't make it ok to do it. Just because you have the "right" to do something, doesn't mean that you should do it.

Where on earth did you get the idea that I would praise someone burning a black man in effigy? There are people here praising the actions of these protestors, do you think that they would praise someone burning a black man in effigy?

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Cool.

Maybe toss in a Bush dummy and an Israeli flag next time for good measure.

Seek help.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Turkey22
I'm actually pretty anti-war, but this is bad. I can't say I'm shocked at what they are doing, cus frankly there are plenty of stupid people everywhere. But it is pretty sad to see them basically using the wrong target for their aggressions. Blame Bush, blame congress, but don't blame the people who are only following orders.

Yup, definitely the wrong target. Definitely nutjobs so extreme as to undermine their own goals, but not realize it.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Kwaipie
I served more than 10 yrs in the service defending the Constitution.
I was at Portland's anti-war rally last Sunday.
I don't condone the activities of the anarchists and their non-message. Their entire reason for being there is to raise a commotion. They have no message, they are merely getting in the way.

So many conservatives in this thread are outraged that a stuffed doll was burned. It was a doll. During that same time, 10 enlisted very young men (real human beings) died in this clusterfsk quagmire your party is responsible for. I don't see threads with 80+ posts flying in outrage that another young American is dead or that 10 more Americans are maimed for life. If it were up to you (conservatives) we'd be over there fighting this un-winnable conflict for generations. There truly is no end in sight. At least the Brits have decided to get out while the getting was good. Now we can rely on the remainder of the Coalition of the Willing to provide flesh to this situation. I think Tonga still has some 18-30 yr olds.

Anarchists always seem to show up at any rally that opposes Government, no matter the issue it seems. Even up here in Canada there are small groups that show up at protests then just cause various forms of trouble. The local news went so far as to point out a few who have shown up at divergent unrelated protests over the years.

The Courts have gotten smart about it and actually banned some people from Protests. There was some rumbling about Rights(certainly worthy of bringing up for discussion), but overall these individuals have overstepped their Rights and used legitimate Protest as a cover to commit Crime(vandalism and violence). These people though are more extreme than simply Effigy/Flag Burners, but they all fit into the "Idiot" category.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Turkey22
I'm actually pretty anti-war, but this is bad. I can't say I'm shocked at what they are doing, cus frankly there are plenty of stupid people everywhere. But it is pretty sad to see them basically using the wrong target for their aggressions. Blame Bush, blame congress, but don't blame the people who are only following orders.

Yup, definitely the wrong target. Definitely nutjobs so extreme as to undermine their own goals, but not realize it.

I think you are right, this does much more to hurt the anti-war crowd than it does to help it.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Can anyone give an argument for why this is not okay? Who cares if they don't like the troops? If I saw one getting burned in effigy today, I wouldn't think twice about it... this halo around our "men and women in uniform" is one I'll never understand. Remember: they are in Iraq not to protect freedom, but because they are getting paid lots and lots of money. (way more then the average for their level of education)

If you honestly believe that our TROOPS are in Iraq for the money, then you are one stupid SOB and know absolutely nothing about US soldiers today.

I personally take a ~50% paycut each time I get sent downrange and that is with 10 years of service and a decent rank on my shoulder! Most of our soldiers are working for $1-3k per month while losing sleep, eating crappy food, sleeping on cots or rocks, getting shot at, blown up, and dealing with a media and populace back home that throws them under a bus every day. If you believe that is high pay for working 120+ hrs/wk, then you SERIOUSLY need to find a better job... or get a clue.

As for these protesters, I expect that it will catch up with them someday... fvck 'em.

Uhmm,I was in the armed forces up until about a year ago. I spent about 7 years in, and I know exactly what I'm talking about. You can try and shine up the service all you want... I know the truth.

I don't know of many jobs where people can make $40-50k+ with only a high school diploma. In addition, while you are in Iraq you might be working that much, but while you're in the US if you're working 40 hours a week you're in a crappy command. At the maintenance activity I worked at here in San Diego most people worked about 30 hours a week, and that's including 2 hour lunches. (on the ship I was on we worked around the clock while underway... but again in port we were off at noon most days.) What you say is also misleading, the only soldiers making 1k a month are the green recruits, and most soldiers making 2-3k a month are doing so where at least half their pay is tax free, which adds about 25-30% on top of that. With nothing but a high school diploma (some only a GED). I was in the navy for all of two years before I made E-5 and was making more money then my mom did who is a teacher with a masters +20.

Also, our troops aren't in Iraq for the money... they are in the Army for the money, which just at the moment happens to include Iraq. Anyone who tries to tell you that the average grunt is in the Army to defend America is LYING to you. Anyone who takes an honest look at people will know that I'm right. This doesn't mean that the troops are bad people for joining for the money and benefits, but I think we should be honest with ourselves about who these people are, and why they do it.

In addition, I'll defend those dumbasses.... burn whoever you want in effigy. I couldn't care less. All you people going nuts about it are just looking for some excuse to get indignant about something and feign moral outrage because it makes you feel nice and superior. Your shock and horror at the disrespect to our troops is a pale and sickly thing considering how many of you seem to be largely indifferent to the REAL people that are being killed in Iraq every day... both our soldiers and their civilians. Collateral damage you say... necessary sacrifice you say. But yeah, lets all get together and get mad that someone burned a rag doll with some camoflage on it, when some REAL soldier is probably burning to death in his APC that was just blown apart by a suicide bomber who in his zeal and stupidity left behind a wife and children. This is REALLY something to join together on and condemn huh. Keep fighting the good fight, jackasses.

You people are pathetic.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Harvey
Did it offend those who support the Bushwackos' illegal war? I hope so.

That's the whole point Harvey: Seeing anyone burning an effigy of a US soldier should anger and offend every American, regardless of their stance on the war.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: alien42

Originally posted by: Fern
Nobody, not one poster so far, is saying that they don't have the "right" to do that. Why keep bringing up the free speech thing?

Won't you condem the burning of the soldier effigy?

i condemn the false war. if it were not for that this thread would not exist.

:thumbsup:

Not the burning part, just the above post.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Can anyone give an argument for why this is not okay? Who cares if they don't like the troops? If I saw one getting burned in effigy today, I wouldn't think twice about it... this halo around our "men and women in uniform" is one I'll never understand. Remember: they are in Iraq not to protect freedom, but because they are getting paid lots and lots of money. (way more then the average for their level of education)

I beg to differ. The average soldier makes about $1k per month. If your "they" refers to the contractors, Bush family, Cheney family, etc, then I'd agree with you.

I was making 2k a month 6 months out of bootcamp in 1992 without ever leaving the states. Granted, an E1 grunt isn't going to make that if they're single, living on the base, and on safe ground...but it's easy to start pulling in bucks if you're married, an E4+, living off base, or receiving various incentive pays.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: JD50
Wrong, I would not praise those rednecks, but I would defend their rights to do it, I would also defend the rights of these protestors to do what they did. I would say the exact same thing about that as I am here, its absolutely disgusting. No one has suggested that they should not have the right to do what they did, but that doesn't make it ok to do it. Just because you have the "right" to do something, doesn't mean that you should do it.

Where on earth did you get the idea that I would praise someone burning a black man in effigy? There are people here praising the actions of these protestors, do you think that they would praise someone burning a black man in effigy?

When you get a second, could you go over to this thread and post the sentence that I bolded?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Also, our troops aren't in Iraq for the money... they are in the Army for the money, which just at the moment happens to include Iraq. Anyone who tries to tell you that the average grunt is in the Army to defend America is LYING to you. .

wtf do you know about "grunts"? You were in the Navy ffs.

I do not know a SINGLE enlisted grunt who joined for the money to be made while on AD, even when it's tax-free. They have many reasons for joining, and educational benefits are probably near the top of the list, but I don't know a single one in it for the cash. Joining for money might be one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard.

Everything you just wrote sounds like a super-pogue's view of life in the military. I suggest you go hang out with some real grunts and ask them why they joined. If a single one of them says "for the money," I will be VERY surprised.

Go on, get out there and ask... I dare you.

This grunt says you are full of sh*t.

 

[Soybomb]

I think its cowardly to wear hoods and balaclavas when doing something like that. Have the courage to stand by your opinion.

Past that I'm guessing its angsty youth wanting to be inflamatory without having a well thought out position. While you might disagree with national policy, I don't see a valid arguement for wishing death upon the soldiers carrying out the will of the people. Burning the administration in effigy still seems drastic to me for the circumstance but at least it seems relevant. Burning the flag along with it just makes me further think its about being young and dumb and not having a real well thought out stance.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: palehorse74


This grunt says you are full of sh*t.

That's ok, we have known you are for ages now, I am sure there is no love lost.

As for bashing sailors you can shove it, like you would know what it is like being a "grunt" when your ass is on p&n parroting rw talking points all day, go peel some potatoes you peon and make yourself useful for once, no wonder we are losing a war.

 

[dphantom]

Since there is so much confusion over miltary pay, I thought it would be sensible for all the idiots on both sides to post a link to the military pay scales so you can all just shut up.

CLICK HERE if you want the facts

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: palehorse74


This grunt says you are full of sh*t.

That's ok, we have known you are for ages now, I am sure there is no love lost.

As for bashing sailors you can shove it, like you would know what it is like being a "grunt" when your ass is on p&n parroting rw talking points all day, go peel some potatoes you peon and make yourself useful for once, no wonder we are losing a war.

I'm sorry.. I know you spent something like two months in the Navy.

my bad.

But, like Eskimo, you dont know the first thing about grunts, or why we join the military.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: dphantom
Since there is so much confusion over miltary pay, I thought it would be sensible for all the idiots on both sides to post a link to the military pay scales so you can all just shut up.

CLICK HERE if you want the facts

try these FY2007 charts instead:

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/2007paycharts/l/bl07enlbasepay1.htm

After 10 years in the service, I get a whopping $2831.40/mo basic pay when I'm on active duty.

yay.. i must be RICH!

morons...

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: palehorse74


But, like Eskimo, you dont know the first thing about grunts, or why we join the military.

There is no "we" to who you speak for, you are a partisan wingnut who does not speak for the military and in no way represents the way they think, like I said, you spend more time on here trying to feed us rw bs then interacting with fellow servicemembers no doubt, what would you know of the military? nothing, you live and breathe drudge and limbaugh crap and other folks to cowardly to serve in the first place while basing folks who served in other branches who dont buy into your crap, go you.