UFC 121 Lesnar vs Velasquez

[Zebo]

I just saw this thread. Man Brock sure does not like getting hit. Well who does but it's how you deal with it... do you perry, block and take blows in stride and work through it or put on a break dancing show and coward up. Sad. Just sad.

My guess is he does not let people smack him around in practice, being Brock Lesnar and all. Thats a mistake because like with anything practice makes perfect. If he can do that this next year he'll be back. Don't count him out.

Brown Pride showed Fedoresqe relentlessness. Very cool. I thought most wrestlers would stand best chance of beating Brock because it's very hard to take down and keep down another wrestler even of inferior skill. Then all you need is superior standup and it's over.

 

[Zebo]

Okay, I agree that Fedor is definitely the most dominant HW fighter of all time, but this might be the silliest supporting reason I've ever heard for it. Anderson Silva went 3-2 in PRIDE 6 years ago, in a different weight class, and that somehow means Fedor is the best?

Fedor would be favored over everyone. That makes him the "best" in betting.. weather it's true you never know till they fight and even then just cause he beats someone once doesn't mean he can win every time.

 

[Wingznut]

My guess is he does not let people smack him around in practice, being Brock Lesnar and all. Thats a mistake because like with anything practice makes perfect. If he can do that this next year he'll be back. Don't count him out.

That's the big rumor. Also that he surrounds himself in camp with a bunch of "yes men" who don't give him fair criticism of what he needs.

On MMA Live, Bas Rutten asked Pat Barry (who trained with Lesnar) if they trained a lot of striking, and he wouldn't answer. He basically just said "we trained hard." I get that there's a code amongst these camps and that you don't tell everyone every detail... But I have a feeling had they trained a lot of striking, Pat wouldn't have a problem saying so.

 

[monaroCountry]

Okay, I agree that Fedor is definitely the most dominant HW fighter of all time, but this might be the silliest supporting reason I've ever heard for it. Anderson Silva went 3-2 in PRIDE 6 years ago, in a different weight class, and that somehow means Fedor is the best?

Partly,
1) Another reason is because Fedor fought a wider range of opponents from all coners of the globe and from different promotions.
2) Another is that Fedor has been the dominant fighter longer.
3) Another very important point is that Fedor has never really avoided his opponents strengths i.e. striking with CroCop, wrestling with Lindland and grappling with Nog.
4) Finally, Fedor has also found success at the highest level in other sports outside of MMA as both representative of both Judo and Sambo.

Did Fedor have a near life ending illness? No, and as much as you Fedor nutthuggers love to dispute it, in 2000 he has a loss on his record. I don't give a shit if you don't think it was a legit loss, he has a L on his record.

He does have a loss in his record BUT that loss didn’t come from being outclassed. That loss came from an ILLEGAL ELBOW from his opponent that caused a cut. In boxing and in MMA including that particular event, that loss as per their rules should have gone to the person who threw the illegal elbow, or at best should have ruled it a no contest. That was the rules that they fought under and that was the rules that the referee conveniently forgot to enforce.

Fedor's more experienced, but he had A LOT of easy fights his 1st 4 years in MMA.

Fedor fought the same way for a very long time. Fedor also had a harder time against his earlier victories than those against a former UFC HW champion in Tim Silvia. Don’t mistake skills and ability with popularity.

Those fighters early fighters were not popular (not being American) but were highly skilled and deserving of that bout. The thing is, records don’t show everything, many of those fighters especially many MMA pioneers fought skilled and seasoned MMA fighters whose fights might not be listed. Fedor and especially Igor had these. Nowdays though, an inexperienced fighter who have NEVER fought a fight in their life could suddenly be thrown in and proclaimed a professional without first proving themselves (hence better fight record).

 

[TheLonelyPhoenix]

...and as much as you Fedor nutthuggers love to dispute it, in 2000 he has a loss on his record. I don't give a shit if you don't think it was a legit loss, he has a L on his record. In the state it would have been a real loss because elbows are legal.

By this logic Brock should attempt to win his next fight by shoving a stick in his opponent's eye. Hey, its legal somewhere, right?

 

[QueBert]

By this logic Brock should attempt to win his next fight by shoving a stick in his opponent's eye. Hey, its legal somewhere, right?

That's not legal in any MMA org, not even bare knuckle "no rule" fighting in Brazil. There's no legit place on the planet you could win an MMA fight by how you mentioned. Fedor would have lost anywhere except in Japan and SF. The overwhelming majority of MMA org's in the world elbows are legal.

 

[gevorg]

I've realized how much Brock is overrated in his previous fight. Carwin was mauling him! Brock is almost like Valuev of MMA.

Carwin vs. Velasquez will be interesting.

 

[Zebo]

I've realized how much Brock is overrated in his previous fight. Carwin was mauling him! Brock is almost like Valuev of MMA.

Carwin vs. Velasquez will be interesting.

Indeed Carwin was mauling him but gassed hard. It takes a wrestler with superior striking to beat a wrestler. Even with a little inferior skill a good wrestler can not keep you down. This is why Brock could not keep Carwin down or Cain and will have trouble with any HW collegiate wrestler until he can box if his opponent can box..

Cain/Carwin is not that interesting IMO - unless Carwin lands a bomb, Cain will work and wear him out. I'd like to see some of the strike-force guys come over like Overeem, Fedor and Werdum, again.

 

[weirdichi]

Can we now replace UFC with BCS and all the names with universities and have at it?

 

[monaroCountry]

That's not legal in any MMA org, not even bare knuckle "no rule" fighting in Brazil. There's no legit place on the planet you could win an MMA fight by how you mentioned. Fedor would have lost anywhere except in Japan and SF. The overwhelming majority of MMA org's in the world elbows are legal.

Elbow strikes are legal in SOME MMA promotions i.e. the UFC, however if that fight was in the UFC then the fight wouldn’t have been stopped from a small cut and consequently Fedor wouldn’t have lost that fight. Simply put, the rules of that particular promotion DID NOT allow elbow strikes to the head and so Fedor should not have lost.

As a quick comparison. How Fedor lost was the same as if a UFC fighter knocked out his downed opponent using an ILLEGAL soccer kick to the head. Under UFC rules if a fighter did a soccer kick then he would be disqualified and given a LOSS (even though other promotions allow soccer kicks).

 

[Woosta]

Can we now replace UFC with BCS and all the names with universities and have at it?

no

 

[TheLonelyPhoenix]

Elbow strikes are legal in SOME MMA promotions i.e. the UFC, however if that fight was in the UFC then the fight wouldn’t have been stopped from a small cut and consequently Fedor wouldn’t have lost that fight. Simply put, the rules of that particular promotion DID NOT allow elbow strikes to the head and so Fedor should not have lost.

As a quick comparison. How Fedor lost was the same as if a UFC fighter knocked out his downed opponent using an ILLEGAL soccer kick to the head. Under UFC rules if a fighter did a soccer kick then he would be disqualified and given a LOSS (even though other promotions allow soccer kicks).

I have already attempted to make this point - that it is unreasonable to expect a fighter to take illegal strikes in the promotion they are fighting in, then take a loss where the opponent would have been DQed under another tournament format. It would appear this thread has become reason-resistant. I recommend waiting until Brock loses to a soccer kick in the head, then link to this thread. Your logic will be golden then.

 

[Woosta]

To all the people saying Alistair, Werdum and Fedor are cans... Shane Carwin, one of your beloved UFC HWs disagrees with you:

BJ Penn says Fedor is the best

Cain has said Fedor is the best

Frank Mir has said Fedor is the best

dozens and dozens of UFC HWs recognize him as the best.

Yet, UFC worshippers who follow these fighters do not agree. Intriguing.

 

[torpid]

Great, now you just have to show us a similar thread where Shane or someone of equal note say that Lesnar and Cain aren't that impressive because they haven't fought anyone good yet while at the same time claiming that Sylvia and Arlovsky are still elite fighters compared to Lesnar and Cain's opposition. Then you would finally have someone who agrees with you.

 

[Woosta]